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+--- Thread: Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves (/showthread.php?tid=11365)
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - Salguod - 2009-05-18
eos367 Wrote:Well, this is definitely progress compared to them closing any ticket they get.
Spoiler
Edit* Unless of course Raven just said that to shut me and up and "filed" it in the garbage bin rather than actually doing what was said. :/
![[Image: ElementalWeapons.png]](http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo177/eos367/2009Mapleversary/ElementalWeapons.png)
That's an automated response, so your edit is pretty likely.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - Eos - 2009-05-18
Salguod Wrote:That's an automated response, so your edit is pretty likely.
That was not the automated response. I have four of those of two different flavors.
Spoiler
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - godofturtles - 2009-05-18
Nexon knows about this and has known about this issue for quite some time and has clearly failed to do anything about it. They are not incompetant, they just don't always see an issue in the same light we do, or simply see the fixing of our issue as a downside to themselves. They feel like they don't have to mirror other successful maple versions like kms even though that would probably be the best option in our eyes. I really think that they are intentionally neglecting to resolve this instance though, I'm positive that they've seen all of the arguements and that they are aware of the outrage. So my real point is that they have had no intention of fixing this. But with all of this said, I think is good for people to speak out constantly until they finally get tired of being wrong and actually do this, or at least until we get closure from them in the form of some kind of statement.
Btw, what category was your ticket placed under?
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - MyMind - 2009-05-18
After reading this thread I don't understand why people complain when we ask to make e.weps work like ANY other maple version does.
I feel shame for harrisonized as fp AM >_>
MSEA,KMS,CMS... etc had penalty and people doesn't complain. Bishops still wanted at bossing and training.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - godofturtles - 2009-05-18
That's the problem, once someone has been given something great that they should not have been entitled to, they refuse to give it up and formulate their own reasons why they deserve it. You wouldn't miss something as much if you didn't have it to begin with. These threads arguements would simply not exist if nexon has done the right thing in the beginning. And to expand my point, the people who don't want this fixed would find fault in my last sentence because I used the phrase "done the right thing" because they actually tried to create a new definition for what's right by trying to trash our credibility and justify the new scenario that never should have happened. I think nexon is helping their side by making it appear as if everything is right, but until they actually just say something, neither side can win this.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - LordVader - 2009-05-18
In short, heres how i see it:
Nexon makes a lot of money off Elemental weapons. People gach in NLC just for the chance to get one, or a WS. With the wands bringing upwards of 1.4-1.6 bil easily on broa (for fire), its a pretty good draw. If you get one wand within 300 gach tickets, you profit more or less (with MTS to meso converting). If they FIX the wands, bishops wont want them, and thus the prices will plummet. When prices plummet, theres less gaching, and less revenue. For Nexon, keeping them the way they are is probably the smartest option financially, (and being a corporation, nexon cares about the bottom line, please do not tell me otherwise. Ive been saying this for years).
Basically they have to decide if making xx% of customers happy that deal with this issue is worth pissing off yy%, and seeing as theres more bishops than AM's it seems, pissing off yy is less financially friendly.
Do i hope they fix them? Yeah, of course. I cant fucking afford 1.6 bil for a damn weapon. Do i think they will? Maybe if they release a 50294504 matk lvl 130 lukless weapon. Either that or bishops will BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW until they get a holy weapon.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - draconius - 2009-05-18
eos367 Wrote:Do you seriously think Elemental Wands & Staves are truly a key driving factor in the purchase of Gachapon tickets at this point? That might've been a possibility 10 months ago when they first came out, but today?
As for your sky is falling the world will end people will quit - Neither result will have a noticable impact on the natural ebb and flow of player interest. People will be mad either way, a few people who are looking for excuse to quit any way might actually do it, but those same people are just likely to be back in three weeks peaching about something else.
If it's corrected now, it's not a problem in the future. Population steadily rises, so the sooner a problem is eliminated the less people who are impacted by it. Ripping the band aid off now will hurt a lot less than if they wait another 10 months before deciding it's screwy.
They aren't? When a clean Ele wand goes for 1.2Bill or more, that isn't cause for people to spend hundreds of dollars on gach (incidentally there's a sale going on for Gach too)? Like I said, people will be mad either way, but as it stands right now, how many archmages have really justified quitting/have quit because of the situation? There are going to be many bishops affected by this, and there's going to be zero incentive to ever gach at NLC either. Bishops WILL quit if Nexon imposes a reduction, many of whom (if they were rich enough to afford an ele wand in the first place) spend NX like no other. Archmages WILL quit if Nexon says everything goes along as is, many of whom subscribe to the belief that bishops are responsible for some 70-80% of the demand for ele wands and that a reduction would bring these things down proportionally to suit their price range (because we all like to play with stereotypes of rich bishops and poor archmages amirite). That's a financial hit Nexon is not going to want to pursue at a time when things WORK as is and the goal is to RETAIN their player base, not lose it.
The population does steadily rise, but prices for Ele wands have gone down from their initial outset. Furthermore, it has now become somewhat of a holding pattern that most bishops will buy the 6 and 8 wands rather than the 5 and 7 wands, simply because ARCHMAGE demand for them is low compared to the primary attribute wands. Over time, it's likely that the prices will continue to decline, but the central fact to come to terms with is that this is a cash cow like no other. I literally cannot think off the top of my head a clean weapon that is more expensive than an ele wand, and Nexon has no need, nor the community more QQ, to address this issue conclusively.
Quote:Oh, nice strawman argument.
Also, no. We do not have a restriction on that kind of thing unless the topic gets out of hand, or you start it with the soul intention of trolling. (Much like your post.)
...This is trolling? I presented a legitimate argument as to the position that most bishops subscribe to, and you call it trolling? I'm glad we ain't discussing politics, thats for sure >_>;;
Quote:Lol, I'm pretty sure I saw you get called a commie (or close to it) a few times in the past =P coughnoprizesforguessingwhocough
This whole thread makes me laugh. At the end of the day its just a game. People really don't need to get so worked up over something that really doesn't matter. Next thing, people will argue that AM's need HS to complement their solo attacking.
(Oh and @ Magus - I see a crapton a mages of ALL classes selling leech)
Hey, the red ar(ch)m(age)y is about to confiscate all bishop-owned ele wands...don't make me tell 'em what color yours is
Maplestory is srs bznis.Quote:We've already had many discussions on genesis. And no, by no means should Bishops out damage Arch Mages by far, especially on the end game training map.I hear the Time Temple maps are too big for ultimates to be efficient, meaning Skelegons are still the best option. Now why shouldn't Bishops be stronger? One reason: They're a friggin' support class. I think they should be able to do damage, but not that much damage. It's like a combat medic doing as much damage as a heavy right now.
If anyone asks, I was not the one that started this conversation about Genesis -_-
Bishops outdamage Archmages BARELY on a monster that they're STRONG at. Is this really too much to ask for? Bishops are pretty much useless at virtually any other training location besides the one they've specifically been sequestered at (skeles), and even there they barely edge out an archmage with an ele wand (and that's with Gen30...how many bishops really do manage to pony up that much money to buy it). Support class we are, but all 4th job mages are powerhouses. The fact that Archmages 2Hit skeles/Newties by the time we 2Hit Skeles basically confirms the disparity that goes on here. Archmages can expect to be able to Onehit Newties/Nest Golems some time in their 18x for decently equipped/stat'd...No bishop in memory can consistently one hit them with Genesis. Archmages are very much significantly stronger than bishops, and while I'm not saying that their class is "perfected" to the degree that bishops are, there's certainly no need to NERF bishops to "equalize" them with archmages (more rather to pump archmages up). And honestly, for all the complaints that Archmages have, I don't see nearly as much whining going on from the classes that REALLY get left out (Paladins and Shadowers).
Quote:And the Bishop buying up all the different colors is rare, and it's also completely wasteful while it's useful for AMs. Fire/ Ice weapons are for training, while Lightning/Poison is for bossing. Right now all I have is a lightning staff, which brings my ice damage up to 154%. With an ice staff, It's brought up to 175%. That's a 13% increase in damage. Bishops get what, 30 more MA over a doomsday? 50 if you include the base luk? With, let's say 1200 MA, that increases damage by 4%. So those 4 wands that greedy Bishop is using because they're pretty could instead increase 2 AMs damage greatly in both bossing and training.
Why the heck should it matter how a bishop spends his/her money? This game is very much based on a market economy, and the concept of a "greedy" bishop is EXTREMELY hypocritical when the fact of the matter is that many on this board and elsewhere that harbor animosity towards bishops purchasing ele wands do so because they secretly hope that prices would plummet as a result of ele wands incurring reductions, thereby ruining bishops all around and taking a significant hit on Nexon's finances too. I suppose we really should institute land reform while we're at it because it sounds to me like you have a problem with the fundamental concept of haves and have nots being dictated by their ability to purchase said items.
Quote:Also, what idiot still goes to gacha because they want elemental wands? Sure, they'd be happy if they got one, but nobody goes to gacha because they want to get a wand.
What idiot would go to NLC gach otherwise o_O;; For the
? The fact that some of these wands are gached at Mushroom shrine also suggests that people are more inclined to gach there, increasing the supply of dark scrolls even more so and making scrolled items cheaper in general. While the wands themselves are not necessarily the central reason why people gach, the simple fact that there is a chance to obtain one, as well as other things is an incentive that steers many to spend money on gach, especially those on the fence about the matter.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - Kabanaw - 2009-05-18
draconius Wrote:Why the heck should it matter how a bishop spends his/her money? This game is very much based on a market economy, and the concept of a "greedy" bishop is EXTREMELY hypocritical when the fact of the matter is that many on this board and elsewhere that harbor animosity towards bishops purchasing ele wands do so because they secretly hope that prices would plummet as a result of ele wands incurring reductions, thereby ruining bishops all around and taking a significant hit on Nexon's finances too. I suppose we really should institute land reform while we're at it because it sounds to me like you have a problem with the fundamental concept of haves and have nots being dictated by their ability to purchase said items.
What idiot would go to NLC gach otherwise o_O;; For the
I did go spend $20 right when Ele weapons came out to try for one. Since then, I never have. The fact of the matter is that nowadays, chances are you're not going to get one. I haven't known anybody who's gacha'd for Ele Wands at NLC since their release.
The problem I have with a Bishop buying the multi-colored wands is that by doing so, AMs who have much more of a use for them can't get them. If ele wands were common, I'd have no problem with it. But since they're so rare, it makes it much harder for AMs to get the weapons.
If there was a famine, and there were only 10 loaves of bread and 10 people in a store, is it fair if one person buys half of them just for themselves?
But we're arguing about one case here. I know that most Bishops just buy 1 wand and then go back to training.
What I really want is just a reply. Even if I don't get my way and there's no damage reduction, I'd be upset but I wouldn't quit because of it.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - ZeekFox - 2009-05-18
Quote:And the Bishop buying up all the different colors is rare, and it's also completely wasteful while it's useful for AMs. Fire/ Ice weapons are for training, while Lightning/Poison is for bossing. Right now all I have is a lightning staff, which brings my ice damage up to 154%. With an ice staff, It's brought up to 175%. That's a 13% increase in damage. Bishops get what, 30 more MA over a doomsday? 50 if you include the base luk? With, let's say 1200 MA, that increases damage by 4%. So those 4 wands that greedy Bishop is using because they're pretty could instead increase 2 AMs damage greatly in both bossing and training.
By that logic, people should give up their 17 attack Brown Work Gloves to level 10 characters that would get a 100% attack boost over their beginner's Sword. After all, a 100% attack boost is far more significant than what 17 more W.ATK does for a Hero who has a GM scrolled level 120 Lunchbox and 18+ attack shield, right?
It's a competitive market. Whoever has the money gets the goods. Otherwise, there's no reason for 4th jobbers to "waste" Onyx Apples on bosses when unfunded 4X players could be leveling three times faster with an additional 88 W.ATK over the Warrior Elixers they can barely afford from NLC.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - Kabanaw - 2009-05-18
ZeekFox Wrote:By that logic, people should give up their 17 attack Brown Work Gloves to level 10 characters that would get a 100% attack boost over their beginner's Sword. After all, a 100% attack boost is far more significant than what 17 more W.ATK does for a Hero who has a GM scrolled level 120 Lunchbox and 18+ attack shield, right?
It's a competitive market. Whoever has the money gets the goods. Otherwise, there's no reason for 4th jobbers to "waste" Onyx Apples on bosses when unfunded 4X players could be leveling three times faster with an additional 88 W.ATK over the Warrior Elixers they can barely afford from NLC.
Does the Hero have both a 17 att SCG and a 17 att BWG for one character? I have no problem with them buying one; I think that when you buy multiple when you need one, in fact can only use one, is wasteful.
If the Hero has two 17 att gloves and is only planning on ever using one at a time, he should sell one unless he has some emotional attachment to them both.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - Holypie - 2009-05-18
Kabanaw Wrote:I did go spend $20 right when Ele weapons came out to try for one. Since then, I never have. The fact of the matter is that nowadays, chances are you're not going to get one. I haven't known anybody who's gacha'd for Ele Wands at NLC since their release.
The problem I have with a Bishop buying the multi-colored wands is that by doing so, AMs who have much more of a use for them can't get them. If ele wands were common, I'd have no problem with it. But since they're so rare, it makes it much harder for AMs to get the weapons.
If there was a famine, and there were only 10 loaves of bread and 10 people in a store, is it fair if one person buys half of them just for themselves?
But we're arguing about one case here. I know that most Bishops just buy 1 wand and then go back to training.
What I really want is just a reply. Even if I don't get my way and there's no damage reduction, I'd be upset but I wouldn't quit because of it.
i went to NLC for goggles and got a level 70 poison wand.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - loddlaen - 2009-05-19
Lets be honest. How many people would have the funds to buy all ele wands to have a different colour for each day? Most people I know have had to save for a while to be able to buy one.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - Rick - 2009-05-19
Well apparently, some people do. I remember this guy in Yellonde saying he had... I think it was 3.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - Avoidant - 2009-05-19
Kabanaw Wrote:If there was a famine, and there were only 10 loaves of bread and 10 people in a store, is it fair if one person buys half of them just for themselves?
More like, there's a shortage on bread, so a guy who already has a shelf full of Wonder Bread decides to stock up on some good Sara Lee bread because "Wonder bread every day is boring." Seriously, I know the case of the "one wand for each day!" guy is isolated, but man, I raged. e-e;
Regardless, whether it's frowned upon or not, I guess if he has the money then, eh. Free market, etc
Kabanaw Wrote:What I really want is just a reply. Even if I don't get my way and there's no damage reduction, I'd be upset but I wouldn't quit because of it.
Same here. At least that would end the debating.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - MasPan - 2009-05-19
Avoidant Wrote:More like, there's a shortage on bread, so a guy who already has a shelf full of Wonder Bread decides to stock up on some good Sara Lee bread because "Wonder bread every day is boring." Seriously, I know the case of the "one wand for each day!" guy is isolated, but man, I raged. e-e;
Regardless, whether it's frowned upon or not, I guess if he has the money then, eh. Free market, etc
Same here. At least that would end the debating.
Mas pan por favor.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - loddlaen - 2009-05-19
RDal Wrote:Well apparently, some people do. I remember this guy in Yellonde saying he had... I think it was 3.
That makes 2 that I heard of now.
But I know a few AM's who have 2, one for when they use Ice attacks, one for lightning attacks.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - MasPan - 2009-05-19
loddlaen Wrote:That makes 2 that I heard of now.
But I know a few AM's who have 2, one for when they use Ice attacks, one for lightning attacks.
Which is no different than what a lot of warriors do - a DPS weapon for bossing and a DPH weapon for training. Lightning and Poison weapons are extremely useful for AMs fighting Pap/Pianus, while Ice/Fire ones are great for training. If the detriment gets implemented, it really only makes sense for AMs to have 2 rather than any other class have 1.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - draconius - 2009-05-19
Kabanaw Wrote:I did go spend $20 right when Ele weapons came out to try for one. Since then, I never have. The fact of the matter is that nowadays, chances are you're not going to get one. I haven't known anybody who's gacha'd for Ele Wands at NLC since their release.
The problem I have with a Bishop buying the multi-colored wands is that by doing so, AMs who have much more of a use for them can't get them. If ele wands were common, I'd have no problem with it. But since they're so rare, it makes it much harder for AMs to get the weapons.
If there was a famine, and there were only 10 loaves of bread and 10 people in a store, is it fair if one person buys half of them just for themselves?
But we're arguing about one case here. I know that most Bishops just buy 1 wand and then go back to training.
What I really want is just a reply. Even if I don't get my way and there's no damage reduction, I'd be upset but I wouldn't quit because of it.
You know how many actually do this? Barely any, so please stop characterizing even a reasonable portion of the population like that. Bishops are characterized as some 50-70% low luk/luk, and 30-50% lukless. Of the lukless ones, we'll be fair and say half of them are reasonably funded or sell leech. Of that, maybe half or 2/3rds will consider an Ele wand, and out of that we have what is basically some 2-5% of the entire bishop population actually owning any of the lvl 130 ele wands. You keep telling me that bishops leech and thus are able to purchase it through leech money, yet, to get this weapon, a bishop would have to leech 100+ hrs at skelegons to fund it, and thats if they sell for enough to defray pot costs. Even the power leechers that do some 14hrs on weekends will need a month or so to save up for this.
Furthermore, the money/stat ratio to upgrade these things is hardly the best one out there. A decently scrolled Lvl 64 maple weapon will sell for some 100-150Mill and have some 100+ stats or so. A CRAPPY Ele wand 6 or 8 will sell for 600-700Mill,a nd will have maybe a 40-50Stat increase at best over the maple weapon. Thats some 550Mill for a 40 stat boost, which comes out to 10M/stat. Again, I can find a list of things that can be upgraded for cheap compared to these, and therefore it can be argued that this is an END GAME upgrade for bishops, whereas archmages buy this FIRST. What this means is that only the most wealthy of bishops would ever consider buying one of these, whereas most will be content with a shield/cape/earring upgrade instead. More to the point, it only really matters when you're about to 1hit skeles anyways (since who the heck would be thinking of buying an ele wand first if they can't 2hit 'em), incidentally meaning that Genesis would be maxed, which is another financial hurdle to overcome.
This all boils down to a very small sect of bishops that are able to purchase these wands, and yet we're going to say that they have no right to use them? This isn't a food shortage; its a luxury shortage. It's more comparable to the Hilton running out of caviar than it is to hungry masses running out of bread because this isn't a NECESSITY. Archmages won't keel over and die if they don't have a wand, and if they really wanted the 25% bonus, it doesn't exactly kill them to buy 1-4, which presumably few if any bishops would ever be "collecting" or using. Therefore, this is a WANT, not a NEED. A NEED can be justified as requiring extraordinary conditions from Nexon, but a WANT is simply just a desire for a desireable outcome. Yeah, it'll help mages if they can 2hit or onehit earlier, but they won't be unable to play the game without them, which is a fallacy that many people are making at this point. If Nexon really thought that these things SHOULD go to archmages because they need them, the droprate for them would be much higher, or they would drop from mobs. That they are instead a rare gachapon drop suggests that this is indeed a luxury, and the availability of luxuries is dictated by a market. Bishops that purchased their wands owe absolutely nothing to archmages because they purchased them at market value. There was an equality of opportunity there for archmages to purchase them as well, but then again, none of you are terribly interested in 6 and 8 in the first place.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - Atruya - 2009-05-19
godofturtles Wrote:Nexon knows about this and has known about this issue for quite some time and has clearly failed to do anything about it. They are not incompetant, they just don't always see an issue in the same light we do, or simply see the fixing of our issue as a downside to themselves. They feel like they don't have to mirror other successful maple versions like kms even though that would probably be the best option in our eyes. I really think that they are intentionally neglecting to resolve this instance though, I'm positive that they've seen all of the arguements and that they are aware of the outrage. So my real point is that they have had no intention of fixing this. But with all of this said, I think is good for people to speak out constantly until they finally get tired of being wrong and actually do this, or at least until we get closure from them in the form of some kind of statement.
Btw, what category was your ticket placed under?
Doubt it. They have never released content that was different from other versions on this scale iirc. Besides, remember Bigfoot? They took a long time to fix that bug. And then they repeated the same mistake on the giant Sock boss. Come on, what kind of a mule are you when you do pomegranate like that?
And the fact that they didn't even give the elemental weapons their proper name... It all just points to a hasted release without checking for errors. At least give them their right names, even if they don't plan to fix the bishop abuse. Then all the rumors will die out.
Talk to Nexon about Elemental Wands/Staves - Ray - 2009-05-19
Just remember nexon's in it for the profit, and as a few people have said, eweps come from gach, and if they make it undesirable for bishops (perhaps the most popular class by far) then they'd lose alot of gach income.
In a sense, nexon would rather screw over I/Ls and F/Ps than bishops, majority rules here, sorry AMs, shoulda picked cleric on your 2nd job adv.