+- Southperry.net (https://www.southperry.net)
+-- Forum: Maplestory (https://www.southperry.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=15)
+--- Forum: Game Mechanics (https://www.southperry.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=33)
+--- Thread: 4th job Single Target DPS (/showthread.php?tid=6564)
4th job Single Target DPS - Link - 2011-01-16
Invulnerability frames?
Control?
What the hell? Have you even seen a Viper after Big Bang? You just sit there and spam Demolition. That's ALL you do. In fact, that's all you did before Big Bang, with the exception where you used Dragon Strike + Fists or Screw Punch + Fists when Super Transform was over.
DPS is a direct effect on Vipers. It shows how NOT useful this class is. Time Leap isn't needed... It never was, really. If the people in your party know how to play, they won't die, unless you're at a stupid-hard boss that does over 10k per hit. Survivability after Big Bang is abundant for all classes. These "invulnerability frames" are gone. We can't do what we did before Big Bang, because we've lost that ability. The most you can get without probably being weaker than a Bishop (considering only morons would go for more than level 1 Fists) is to spam Demolition over and over, and in which case, you have a pretty wide gap at the end of the animation in which you're stuck vulnerable, without the ability to move or anything.
Being the weakest class just makes us look at that much worse. It has NOTHING to do with control, it has NOTHING to do with the way the character is played... All you do is sit there, on your ass, in ONE SPOT, spamming Demolition for three minutes at a time. That's a Viper's BEST damage per minute path and that's not even close enough to compare with the rest of the classes.
I don't care what you say... If two people were to play two different characters, one as a Viper and one as any other class, and both had perfectly equal funding, the other class would kill the target way faster than the Viper, even if that person had terrible "control" and the Viper had "godly control." DPS is all that matters anymore and Vipers don't have it. The only time we're remotely useful is if people in the party have never played the game before and die a bunch of times, or if any Battle Mages are no where to be found. If neither of those conditions meet up, we're a useless class SOLELY because our DPS is the worst in the game. There's nothing else to it.
4th job Single Target DPS - Takebacker - 2011-01-16
ShiKage Wrote:Invulnerability frames?
We still have them.
ShiKage Wrote:Control?
This class still requires a good amount of it.
ShiKage Wrote:What the hell? Have you even seen a Viper after Big Bang? You just sit there and spam Demolition. That's ALL you do. In fact, that's all you did before Big Bang, with the exception where you used Dragon Strike + Fists or Screw Punch + Fists when Super Transform was over.
Sooo...nothing's changed then.
ShiKage Wrote:Time Leap isn't needed... It never was, really. If the people in your party know how to play, they won't die, unless you're at a stupid-hard boss that does over 10k per hit.
Resurrection isn't the only skill with a cooldown.
ShiKage Wrote:Survivability after Big Bang is abundant for all classes.
Doesn't mean people don't die...
ShiKage Wrote:These "invulnerability frames" are gone. We can't do what we did before Big Bang, because we've lost that ability.
Why would we want to? Dragon strike is spammable. We have no reason to use invincibility frames for the sake of dragon dancing, but we can still avoid attacks with them.
ShiKage Wrote:The most you can get without probably being weaker than a Bishop (considering only morons would go for more than level 1 Fists) is to spam Demolition over and over, and in which case, you have a pretty wide gap at the end of the animation in which you're stuck vulnerable, without the ability to move or anything.
Where in most cases nothing fatal hits you anyway.
ShiKage Wrote:Being the weakest class just makes us look at that much worse. It has NOTHING to do with control, it has NOTHING to do with the way the character is played... All you do is sit there, on your ass, in ONE SPOT, spamming Demolition for three minutes at a time. That's a Viper's BEST damage per minute path and that's not even close enough to compare with the rest of the classes.
Bossing after big bang isn't about control. Bossing before big bang wasn't even about control. Bossing =/= control and it never did. It was all in training, where the control is STILL PRESENT.
ShiKage Wrote:I don't care what you say... If two people were to play two different characters, one as a Viper and one as any other class, and both had perfectly equal funding, the other class would kill the target way faster than the Viper, even if that person had terrible "control" and the Viper had "godly control." DPS is all that matters anymore and Vipers don't have it. The only time we're remotely useful is if people in the party have never played the game before and die a bunch of times, or if any Battle Mages are no where to be found. If neither of those conditions meet up, we're a useless class SOLELY because our DPS is the worst in the game. There's nothing else to it.
I'm not really seeing where this whole "battle mages are always better to have than a bucc" thing is coming from. It isn't true at all and i haven't seen a single battle mage at a major bossing party yet. (though maybe because there aren't many cases where bossing parties are gathered nowadays) Besides, who wants to compare adventurers to the resistance?
4th job Single Target DPS - FanaticRat - 2011-01-17
Man this thread is depressing, not because of the numbers but because people's reactions to it. I can't even say I'm making a cleric no more without everyone being all like, "Lol cleric suks" and pomegranate. I wish we could just play the damn game without fretting over numbers with every breath.
4th job Single Target DPS - Dusk - 2011-01-17
FanaticRat Wrote:Man this thread is depressing, not because of the numbers but because people's reactions to it. I can't even say I'm making a cleric no more without everyone being all like, "Lol cleric suks" and pomegranate. I wish we could just play the damn game without fretting over numbers with every breath.
I wish Nexon would balance classes properly.
4th job Single Target DPS - Signal - 2011-01-17
Theoretical DPS isn't everything.
4th job Single Target DPS - Beg - 2011-01-17
People sometimes act as if it is. Probably the subject of annoyance. Obviously it isn't though.
4th job Single Target DPS - Takebacker - 2011-01-17
Signal Wrote:Theoretical DPS isn't everything.
>Implying that this is what this thread implies.
4th job Single Target DPS - Voyant - 2011-01-17
Man if there 1 thing bucc know how to do on SS is peach...its like endless...( I have both a Bucc and A Sair and i love them both dearly)
I'm a huge pirate fan...only classes I will ever play...what I find interesting is how Mechs are pretty much both Bucc's and Sairs in 1. They pretty much get the best from both worlds without its issues. Only reason people ever made buccss was for BF,Ksing, and fun. Now that KSing and BFing is gone in a sense fun is the only real reason for someone to make one...that is till nexon buffs them up...(which I think will not be happening)
Sure the class as lower Dmg, but the class has a lot of advantages that other melee classes don't so it makes sense for a Bucc to be a the middle man. If anything peach about Mechs....which are pretty much EVERY OTHER CLASS combined into 1. At least buccs aren't broken.
4th job Single Target DPS - Signal - 2011-01-17
This thread's purpose is to see who is the best dps wise for a lvl 200 on a 1v1 stationary boss. People starting mentioning class imbalances based ONLY on dps 1v1. Yes there are imbalances, but if you look at the bigger picture, those classes on the bottom have some sort of uniqueness that balances their imbalance (lol). Imo, Bishops were never meant as a DPS class, but more of a support class (HS, bless, heal, ress, etc). Imagine if they had all of these support skills AND were on the top of the list (dps). That would be imbalanced correct? There are plenty of other situations that have not been factored in for "balancing issues". Ex. multi-part boss (zak arms), range of attack skill, survivability (hp,avoid,mg), mobility of bosses (BGA), party skills (SI,HS,SE), mobility (FJ, tele, rush), mobs (training wise), and equipment. Equipment is debatable because there are many special items that favor certain classes over others (ele wands/staves, dragon khanjars, ST, LB, PSB) and the cost of equipment themselves. Currently in Scania, a 21% earring will be STR>LUK,DEX,INT in terms of value. DBs need to purchase two weapons compared to other classes. And like what Takebacker was saying, there's invincibility frames and dice rolling to your advantage.
If you guys want 100% balance then everyone will be exactly the same. Imbalances will always be here but Maple is moving towards better balanced classes as time goes by.
4th job Single Target DPS - KhainiWest - 2011-01-18
Voyant Wrote:Man if there 1 thing bucc know how to do on SS is peach...its like endless...( I have both a Bucc and A Sair and i love them both dearly)
I'm a huge pirate fan...only classes I will ever play...what I find interesting is how Mechs are pretty much both Bucc's and Sairs in 1. They pretty much get the best from both worlds without its issues. Only reason people ever made buccss was for BF,Ksing, and fun. Now that KSing and BFing is gone in a sense fun is the only real reason for someone to make one...that is till nexon buffs them up...(which I think will not be happening)
Sure the class as lower Dmg, but the class has a lot of advantages that other melee classes don't so it makes sense for a Bucc to be a the middle man. If anything peach about Mechs....which are pretty much EVERY OTHER CLASS combined into 1. At least buccs aren't broken.
I consider a mech to be a Paladin/Corsair love child.
4th job Single Target DPS - Anonymous Moose - 2011-01-18
DustBunny Wrote:I consider a mech to be a Paladin/Corsair love child.
Love child as in out of wedlock? Wouldnt that make Mechs bastards?
4th job Single Target DPS - sw2009 - 2011-01-19
Anonymous Moose Wrote:Love child as in out of wedlock? Wouldnt that make Mechs bastards?
From one night stands?
4th job Single Target DPS - Satellite - 2011-01-19
Is Aran DPS calculated with Normal, Fast or Slow weapon?
4th job Single Target DPS - Locked - 2011-01-19
Satellite Wrote:Is Aran DPS calculated with Normal, Fast or Slow weapon?
Customizable.
4th job Single Target DPS - Combattente - 2011-01-20
When will the official Big Bang version of this be released?
4th job Single Target DPS - Shidoshi - 2011-01-20
Combattente Wrote:When will the official Big Bang version of this be released?
What do you mean by official? The current version already has the big bang formulas and skills and the spreadsheet shouldn't be taken as it is, it's made for you to edit the values on equipment and such in order to take your own conclusions.
4th job Single Target DPS - Dusk - 2011-01-20
It's...mostly done, I've just been kinda lazy about it.
4th job Single Target DPS - Geoffrey - 2011-01-25
DPS is completely different from DPM though..
are the lists roughly the same?
4th job Single Target DPS - JoeTang - 2011-01-25
Geoffrey Wrote:DPS is completely different from DPM though..
are the lists roughly the same?
Yeah. DPM is like 60 times higher than DPS.
4th job Single Target DPS - Chilly - 2011-01-25
JoeTang Wrote:Yeah. DPM is like 60 times higher than DPS.
Ho ho ho. Infraction ahoy, but worth it just to complement the incomparable JoeTang.