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+---- Thread: Weaponless Dmg Formula? (/showthread.php?tid=5321)
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Itachi54647 - 2008-12-07
So, barehanded brawlers can use all the skills (like screw punch, Demolition) except for flash fist and any other knuckle requiremnt skills?
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Corn - 2008-12-07
Itachi54647 Wrote:So, barehanded brawlers can use all the skills (like screw punch, Demolition) except for flash fist and any other knuckle requiremnt skills?
I am 99% sure on that.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Loose - 2008-12-07
Itachi54647 Wrote:So, barehanded brawlers can use all the skills (like screw punch, Demolition) except for flash fist and any other knuckle requiremnt skills?Barehanded Brawlers can use all the skills (except Booster). It's exactly as if you had Knuckle, but you can't see it and you can hold a shield with it.
Even my Gunslinger with a Gun can use Flash Fist.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Takebacker - 2008-12-07
Loose Wrote:Barehanded Brawlers can use all the skills. It's exactly as if you had Knuckle, but you can't see it and you can hold a shield with it.
Even my Gunslinger with a Gun can use Flash Fist.
I wouldn't bank on being able to use knuckle booster/wind booster though.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - MasPan - 2008-12-07
Takebacker Wrote:I wouldn't bank on being able to use knuckle booster/wind booster though.
Hmm, that opens some interesting oppurtunities...at least in the early levels. If the formula is decent enough compared to with knuckles, a nice attk shield could be better than having a knuckle.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Loose - 2008-12-07
There... I edited it. Forgot about Booster.
I'm curious to see how Speed Infusion will work with this.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Russt - 2008-12-07
Speed Infusion is a party skill. If it can buff bows and claws and spells, it can buff Bare Hands.
Same idea with SE.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Takebacker - 2008-12-07
MasPan Wrote:Hmm, that opens some interesting oppurtunities...at least in the early levels. If the formula is decent enough compared to with knuckles, a nice attk shield could be better than having a knuckle.
Yup. The lack of mastery would completely wreak them after 4x though.
Loose Wrote:There... I edited it. Forgot about Booster.
I'm curious to see how Speed Infusion will work with this.
Ask justin. :O Not like there's a point of course, since it's faster (2) anyway.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Blankout - 2008-12-07
Russt Wrote:Speed Infusion is a party skill. If it can buff bows and claws and spells, it can buff Bare Hands.
Same idea with SE.
But can you use it with bare hands?
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Stereo - 2008-12-07
MasPan Wrote:Hmm, that opens some interesting oppurtunities...at least in the early levels. If the formula is decent enough compared to with knuckles, a nice attk shield could be better than having a knuckle.
Formula changes at 2nd job advance, though... (I took pics on my Brawler before and after advance)
Pre-28:
(3*STR+DEX)*(LEVEL+ATK+3)/100
28-30:
(3*STR+DEX)*(31+ATK)/100
30 as Brawler: (4.2*STR+DEX)*(31+ATK)/100
The Spear formula is (5*STR+DEX)*ATK/100, so you need 5/3 as much atk knuckleless to approximately match up.
ex. Level 26, 131 STR 30 DEX - 50 atk Spear, 40 atk Knuckle, 10 atk Glove, 20 atk 10 str Shield:
Spear - 493 max (using 12 atk elixirs)
Knuckleless - 321 max
Knuckle - 408 max
So even a godly shield won't help enough... Just get a good Fish/Pumpkin spear.
Heading up to level 30 though (post-advance) - 151 str
Knuckleless - 515
Knuckle (41 atk) - 475
So if you for some reason can only afford a 100% scrolled knuckle, but happened to have a 20 atk 10 str Shield (or you want the speed advantage) knuckleless makes sense.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Russt - 2008-12-07
Barehands is Faster (3).
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Blankout - 2008-12-07
Stereo Wrote:Formula changes at 2nd job advance, though... (I took pics on my Brawler before and after advance)
Pre-28:
(3*STR+DEX)*(LEVEL+ATK+3)/100
28-30:
(3*STR+DEX)*(31+ATK)/100
30 as Brawler: (4.2*STR+DEX)*(31+ATK)/100
The Spear formula is (5*STR+DEX)*ATK/100, so you need 5/3 as much atk knuckleless to approximately match up.
ex. Level 26, 131 STR 30 DEX - 50 atk Spear, 40 atk Knuckle, 10 atk Glove, 20 atk 10 str Shield:
Spear - 493 max (using 12 atk elixirs)
Knuckleless - 321 max
Knuckle - 408 max
So even a godly shield won't help enough... Just get a good Fish/Pumpkin spear.
Heading up to level 30 though (post-advance) - 151 str
Knuckleless - 515
Knuckle (41 atk) - 475
So if you for some reason can only afford a 100% scrolled knuckle, but happened to have a 20 atk 10 str Shield (or you want the speed advantage) knuckleless makes sense.
So basically you're saying that in 1st job: Spear > Bare hands > Knuckles
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Stereo - 2008-12-08
No, Spear > Knuckle > Bare Hands. The only reason not to use a Spear is if you are going to use Flash Fists a lot, and I honestly never felt the need.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Russt - 2008-12-08
Flash Fist is a pretty good attack, actually. If not for its range, it would be one of the most effective first job attacking skills.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Blankout - 2008-12-08
Russt Wrote:Flash Fist is a pretty good attack, actually. If not for its range, it would be one of the most effective first job attacking skills.
It's too bad Sommersault Kick beats it in terms of range, yeah.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Russt - 2008-12-08
And is FF really unusable with a spear? It's been confirmed usable with a gun, so...
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Loose - 2008-12-08
Russt Wrote:And is FF really unusable with a spear? It's been confirmed usable with a gun, so...With a gun, the punching hand is free, not holding a weapon. With a Spear... or any other weapon, it's not.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Stereo - 2008-12-08
Russt Wrote:Flash Fist is a pretty good attack, actually.
I didn't like how if you spam it, it can't KB stuff. 1st hit fine, 2nd hit fails cause it's too soon. And right after that, you take touch damage. Pot costs are enough already just getting around the map, I don't need that. SSK is much better for keeping the monsters at a safe distance.
Just confirmed Flash Fist doesn't work with a Dagger, 1h Sword, 2h Sword, Spear, and Polearm.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Russt - 2008-12-08
Ouch.
And yes, KB limit fails. It should at least extend the KB'd time.
Weaponless Dmg Formula? - Dusk - 2008-12-09
Stereo's formula doesn't work for all levels. I've got a lot of data that doesn't fit it. Levelling an unfunded Brawler without exchange items is painful, though <_< I'm not spending anything on a test character.
Some preliminary data
| Level | STR | DEX | Range | Expected Range |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 10 | 41 | 20 | 5~24 | 4~18 |
| 11 | 41 | 20 | 5~24 | 4~20 |
| 11 | 46 | 20 | 5~26 | 4~22 |
| 12 | 46 | 20 | 5~28 | 4~23 |
| 12 | 51 | 20 | 6~31 | 5~25 |
| 13 | 51 | 20 | 6~32 | 5~27 |
| 13 | 56 | 20 | 6~35 | 5~30 |
| 14 | 56 | 20 | 6~35 | 5~31 |
| 14 | 61 | 20 | 6~38 | 6~34 |