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+---- Thread: Marksman or Bowmaster (/showthread.php?tid=4313)
Marksman or Bowmaster - Technolink - 2008-10-18
Yea, right now at 100k, MMs are around 77% of BMs. With 200k snipe, MMs would be around 90%.
I forgot to factor wdef into my previous snipe calcs, but it only reduces the DPS by ~100 damage to 71770
@ Xbish, we're just speculating if a 200k snipe would draw the gap closer, and it indeed closes the gap by a fair amount.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Sihan - 2008-10-18
Technolink Wrote:*V8 slap myslef* duh.
Its fine, mine's up, I'll go plug and chug:
I'll use your calcs, I got within 8 damage, so I assume its correct.
BM:
Damage Range: 4532 ~ 5549
DPS: 76175
DPS w/26-attack Concentrate: 84600
DPS w/19-attack average*: 80383
MM:
Damage Range: 4897 ~ 5999
Strafe only: 56040 (minor rounding differences)
Snipe/strafe perfect cycle -
@ 100k: 61959
@ 200k: 71879
The fair comparison is obviously snipe/strafe vs hurricane/concentrate.
So at that level, with the current cap MM are at 77% efficiency, while at the 200k cap MM are at 90% efficiency. Not bad, I think that brings the classes about equal. Hurricane is the better mobber 3 under, pierce over 3 (which I'm sure consists of more then 10% of a MM's training damage). Then BM stronger bird, MM freeze, etc etc etc.
With the 100k cap it isn't too bad, as long as mobs of 4+ appear a lot in training (which they don't)
@ TS: don't pick a character because you can be the number 1. Then its like you are playing a character you don't like just because of everyone else. Play a character for yourself, and yourself only. Then again, by the time you are 120 we may have the 200k limit (may come in pirate patch, who knows?) and then they'd be 10:9 at bosses.
Yeah.. i guess i'll go with BM.
KaidaTan Wrote:How is your 200k Snipe DPS waaaay off of mine? How many seconds per Snipe did you use?
And Synergy, yeah choose what you like. You said yourself that you don't train much so that #1 position would be hard to hold. Just go Bowmaster so you can do what you like (bossing) whenever you want and not have to worry about rankings.
Thanks, i'll choose BM
Btw, is Synyster, not Synergy
Marksman or Bowmaster - KaidaTan - 2008-10-18
Technolink Wrote:You were probably calculating snipe wrong before. Were you taking the .72 seconds for the snipe arrow to actually fire into account, or just the 10 second cooldown. Snipe isn't 6 arrows per minute (.1 per second), its 5.597 per minute (~.09328 per second)
Oh whoops, lol. What I did (now that you mention it) was pretend Snipe didn't fire at all. Like... I had 83.33 Strafes AND 6 Snipes per minute. Marksmen can't shoot 89.333 projectiles a minute... I'm gonna fix that now.
Edit: Fix'd. I'll post it here.
Marksman
Damage Range: 4897 ~ 5999
DPS without Snipe: 56038
DPS w/10-second Snipe: 72003 (impossible according to Technolink)
DPS w/10.72-second Snipe: 70660
DPS w/11-second Snipe: 70185
DPS w/12-second Snipe: 68670
Bowmaster
Damage Range: 4532 ~ 5549
DPS: 76175
DPS w/26-attack Concentrate: 84600
DPS w/19-attack average*: 80383
Technolink
Marksman or Bowmaster - Mazz - 2008-10-18
Synyster Wrote:
Yeah.. i guess i'll go with BM.
Thanks, i'll choose BM
Btw, is Synyster, not Synergy
do you still have my maple wagner?
and yeah bm ftw~ :o
hey alex xD
Marksman or Bowmaster - Sihan - 2008-10-18
Mazz Wrote:do you still have my maple wagner?
and yeah bm ftw~ :o
hey alex xD
LOL mike. Sorry no
Marksman or Bowmaster - IsaacGS - 2008-10-18
Let's keep that off-topic chat to PMs, ok?
Marksman or Bowmaster - Sihan - 2008-10-18
Sorry...?
Marksman or Bowmaster - Technolink - 2008-10-18
KaidaTan Wrote:Oh whoops, lol. What I did (now that you mention it) was pretend Snipe didn't fire at all. Like... I had 83.33 Strafes AND 6 Snipes per minute. Marksmen can't shoot 89.333 projectiles a minute... I'm gonna fix that now.
Edit: Fix'd. I'll post it here.
Marksman
Damage Range: 4897 ~ 5999
DPS without Snipe: 56038
DPS w/10-second Snipe: 72003 (impossible according to Technolink)
DPS w/10.72-second Snipe: 70660
DPS w/11-second Snipe: 70185
DPS w/12-second Snipe: 68670
Bowmaster
Damage Range: 4532 ~ 5549
DPS: 76175
DPS w/26-attack Concentrate: 84600
DPS w/19-attack average*: 80383
Technolink
Now I'm just playing devil's advocate =P. Before I say anything, we're close enough to the real damage that it doesn't even matter.
Snipe isn't 10.72 seconds, its complicated, which is why I used a 13 strafe 1 snipe combo.
You see by combining the DPSs like that, you're pretty much saying 12.88888 strafes then 1 snipe, because there will be a small gap. Also you didn't subtract average wdef (2000*.55) from snipe, but that's only like 10 damage, lol.
Either way, we can see close enough that its somewhat around 90% of a BM's damage @200k, and it still depends on the equips and the like. I mean we can strive to be perfect but a snipe is going to miss eventually, or be poorly timed.
If you wanted to go REALLY REALLY indepth, one could argue that because while using a potion both classes must stop attack, the MM would have the advantage because the snipe cooldown would still be running while they are potting, but that's just ridiculous to take it to that level.
But the point is that MM can hold their own at bosses now (with ~75% damage), and will be even closer after the patch. So unless you are like only bossing (which you do at higher levels when the MM:BM ratio becomes even larger due to snipe's contstant damage), picking a BM just because of bossing is like saying you are picking a ranger just because of bossing.
A BM/MM should be picked because of training style differences, as well as gear consideration. I don't think boss battles should weigh too heavily into it. As a general (general Kaida, I know there's exceptions =P) as soon as a BM can boss a MM can also do the same boss, abit a tad slower.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Sihan - 2008-10-18
Well...the reason i'm making a bowman is for bossing AND, because i've never made one before.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Hotshot - 2008-10-19
Bowmaster vs Marksman is kind of like Hero vs Shadower. BM/Hero are a bit stronger, most notably at bosses, but MM/Shadower are more fun to play with and don't have to use the same attack ad naseum. You can say Nexon punishes the classes that require more skill to play, instead of rewarding them. I'm actually glad I won't have hurricane in 4th.
Either way for soloing bosses, except bodyguard A (nobody ever fights this guy :f6
, anything a BM can solo a MM can solo a bit slower. MMs don't -suck- at bossing, they just simply aren't as good at it. Pierce isn't as good as it could be considering the way maps are laid out now, but I'm thinking we'll get some good alternatives with time.
Marksman or Bowmaster - KaidaTan - 2008-10-19
Hotshot Wrote:Bowmaster vs Marksman is kind of like Hero vs Shadower. BM/Hero are a bit stronger, most notably at bosses, but MM/Shadower are more fun to play with and don't have to use the same attack ad naseum. You can say Nexon punishes the classes that require more skill to play, instead of rewarding them. I'm actually glad I won't have hurricane in 4th.
Either way for soloing bosses, except bodyguard A (nobody ever fights this guy :f6
At bosses, do you use anything other than Strafe, Snipe, and perhaps freezer?
Marksman or Bowmaster - Noob - 2008-10-19
i didnt read most of this topic but did any one say that if they make the damage cap higher marksmen will be hawt with snipe at bosses too ^^,i did choose mm but bm is better for now IMO but looking to future how damage cap will change things in ms, mm ftw?
Marksman or Bowmaster - Sihan - 2008-10-19
Hotshot Wrote:Bowmaster vs Marksman is kind of like Hero vs Shadower. BM/Hero are a bit stronger, most notably at bosses, but MM/Shadower are more fun to play with and don't have to use the same attack ad naseum. You can say Nexon punishes the classes that require more skill to play, instead of rewarding them. I'm actually glad I won't have hurricane in 4th.
Either way for soloing bosses, except bodyguard A (nobody ever fights this guy :f6
That's the point..
Marksman or Bowmaster - Acim - 2008-10-19
Hotshot Wrote:anything a BM can solo a MM can solo a bit slower.
With that logic, anything a bowmaster can solo a beginner can solo, just slower. Speaking of which, I'd love to see a beginner solo Pap.
Either way, I think the topic starter has chosen already.
Noob Wrote:i didnt read most of this topic but did any one say that if they make the damage cap higher marksmen will be hawt with snipe at bosses too ^^,i did choose mm but bm is better for now IMO but looking to future how damage cap will change things in ms, mm ftw?
Yes, MMs will get better but from the efforts and calculations of other participants in this thread, you can see that BMs will still be better by a decent amount.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Sihan - 2008-10-19
Acim Wrote:With that logic, anything a bowmaster can solo a beginner can solo, just slower. Speaking of which, I'd love to see a beginner solo Pap.
Either way, I think the topic starter has chosen already.
Yes, MMs will get better but from the efforts and calculations of other participants in this thread, you can see that BMs will still be better by a decent amount.
Yeah.. exactly, and yes, i've chosen BM
Marksman or Bowmaster - Hotshot - 2008-10-19
KaidaTan Wrote:At bosses, do you use anything other than Strafe, Snipe, and perhaps freezer?
Boss battles don't require much skillf or either class. At bosses, do you use anything other than Hurricane and perhaps phoenix? That's still 3-2.
Acim, the difference between a BM and a MM soloing isn't that huge, that's my point. So if a solo battle will take 9 minutes instead of 7, I don't see why that's such a bad thing.
Beginners have even less HP than ranged classes, and have accuracy issues in the same way that warriors can, plus they're a melee class. So yeah, your logic very plainly fails here. I'm not trying to convince the TS and if I was going to make a recommendation, I'd probably tell him to make a BM too, because it's much more simple to get what you want out of them.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Sihan - 2008-10-19
The only reason i'm still kinda tempting is, BM are kinda boring(holding down 1 key), but they are strong.
MM have freeze, but they are weakER are bosses.
(DO MM's train faster at newties?)
Marksman or Bowmaster - Technolink - 2008-10-19
You might wanna have hunter/xbow and ranger/sniper weighed in there too. You don't just magically skip to level 120.
MMs train slower 120+, but snipers train faster then rangers because of the higher DPS in those 3rd job lvls.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Findings - 2008-10-19
Synyster Wrote:DO MM's train faster at newties?
Bowmasters train faster at Newties, since all you do is stand in one place, hold down Strafe/Hurricane, and wait for more to spawn.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Sihan - 2008-10-19
Technolink Wrote:You might wanna have hunter/xbow and ranger/sniper weighed in there too. You don't just magically skip to level 120.
MMs train slower 120+, but snipers train faster then rangers because of the higher DPS in those 3rd job lvls.
Findings Wrote:Bowmasters train faster at Newties, since all you do is stand in one place, hold down Strafe/Hurricane, and wait for more to spawn.
That kinda equals it out.
I'm still leaning in the BM side.. but... my friend told me to choose MM because they are rare and are..fun?
AHH IDK
*My head hurts.