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[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - Printable Version

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[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - Kirov - 2011-06-02

Hmm seems a bit like a mechanic without the ugly mech, with a bit of corsair thrown in. Not too sure about the class. I’ll wait till I see more vids, I like mechanics so this could be okay. Though i'm not to sure about the hand cannon as a weapon for maple, wait well we have already had mechs so who cares anymore.

Cannon Jump
캐논 점프
Shoot into the ground, causing a jump. Nearby enemies will take damage from the shot.

So I can pretend I am playing TF2 while playing Maple? Sounds good to me.

Takebacker Wrote:I'm only jealous of double dip dice. Buccaneers need that.

I think if they get around to the pirate rebalance they will. Bucs and Corsairs both have skills that could be removed from 4th job.

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - Baklava - 2011-06-02

I REALLY like the monkey.

It looks pretty awesome actually, first class I'm excited for since ever.

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - Overlord - 2011-06-02

Baklava Wrote:I REALLY like the monkey.

It looks pretty awesome actually, first class I'm excited for since ever.

Their weapon is awesome. Skills? Not so much

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - JoeTang - 2011-06-02

Saw a 720p video, can't be assed to repost it here but the stats were
 Spoiler
Level 120
4442~6834
600/131/7/19
107 cannon, 5atk face, 1atk medal, 1atk ring
20atk from Cannon Buildup, 30 from Reinforce Cannon
164atk
Possibly more from Bullets and Blessing
After Monkey Magic (+20all stat)
4618~7104
41.7->43.3


(4 * 600 + 131) / 100 = 25.31
6834/25.31 = 270

(4 * 620 + 151) / 100 = 26.31
7104/26.31 = 270

270 / (164 + unaccounted for attack) = multiplier (1.65~1.25)
These things use bullets right?

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - Sorien - 2011-06-02

Looks like I have to make one now.
Giga Drill Breaker Biggrin

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - hadriel - 2011-06-02

hadriel Wrote:This are the values I got from Spadow's video.

Damage range: 4442~6834
Str: 600
Dex: 131

=> WA*multiplier
= 6834/(600*4+131) = 2.7

Also, mastery is 65% => base mastery is 15%. Calculated from min damage.

From his video, totalWA = 107 (Cannon) + 50 (Cannon Buildup + Cannon Reinforce) + 1 (ring) + 5 (face) + 1 (medal) = 164

Therefore multiplier = 2.7/1.64 = 1.646

Hadriel

Joe... you missed my post...

Plus I don't think KMST people get to keep their old characters... do they?

Hadriel

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - JoeTang - 2011-06-02

1st job
 Spoiler
Overview:
The Cannon Shooter has significantly better multi-target capacities. Cannon Splash, and Gigantic Backstep combinations provide strong multitarget capacities, which results in an objectively better first job.

2nd job
 Spoiler
Overview:
Invisible Shot does significantly lower damage than Slug Shot and Monkey Rush Bomb, and has much less utility, but we all know Gunslingers suck.

3rd job
 Spoiler
Overview:
Burst Fire provides a small advantage in single target damage compared to Cannon Spike. Flame Thrower + Ice Splitter combination provides a strong mob skill, but does not match Cannon Spike. Monkey Power Bomb appears to suck. Monkey Rush Bomb has very strong utility (unless Monkey Power Bomb's passive is +30% instead of 1.3x damage).

Monkey Wave appears to not require charging (possibly a bug), but does not appear to be spammable.

4th job
 Spoiler
Overview:
Cannon Buster is extremely good, but Battleship Cannon is better single target by a significant margin. Perhaps the summons would deal significantly more damage, which I would say favours Corsairs in my opinion.


Overall, it appears that Corsairs' early job needs an update to match the significantly better training capacity that Cannon Shooters have as well as other jobs. I definitely feel that Cannon Shooters are just plain better at training since they can hit multiple targets so well compared to Corsairs, but Corsairs still dominate in single target damage.

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - hadriel - 2011-06-02

No bullets. I'm still trying to figure out why the multiplier value is so odd.

What isn't said about Monkey Power Bomb is that it attacks front and back, and you can avoid attacks by using it because you fly up. It's pretty useful for strategic purposes I guess...

Your numbers are very much in accordance with my empirical observations. Thanks for crunching.

*edit* Currently Monkey Wave is spammable (and bugged). This video proves it, at around 1:10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNHkYO_i3_8 well... I define spammable as tap-able, and clearly with a delay of 5/600ms (can't remember which) it qualifies as spammable to me. *edit*

Hadriel

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - IllegallySane - 2011-06-02

Small question, Joe. I noticed you didn't reduce the attack speeds of the Cannon Shooter's skills (-1 passive + -2 booster), where skills like Cannon Buster and Bazooka are at their default speeds (1440ms -> 1440ms + 750ms -> 750ms). Was that intentional?

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - Takebacker - 2011-06-02

IllegallySane Wrote:Small question, Joe. I noticed you didn't reduce the attack speeds of the Cannon Shooter's skills (-1 passive + -2 booster), where skills like Cannon Buster and Bazooka are at their default speeds (1440ms -> 1440ms + 750ms -> 750ms). Was that intentional?

Also, cannoneers benefit fully from SI where sairs don't. How much does this even the gap?

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - Dark Link - 2011-06-02

JoeTang Wrote:Overall, it appears that Corsairs' early job needs an update to match the significantly better training capacity that Cannon Shooters have as well as other jobs. I definitely feel that Cannon Shooters are just plain better at training since they can hit multiple targets so well compared to Corsairs, but Corsairs still dominate in single target damage.

Shock horror, Nexon made another OP class lol

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - JoeTang - 2011-06-02

IllegallySane Wrote:Small question, Joe. I noticed you didn't reduce the attack speeds of the Cannon Shooter's skills (-1 passive + -2 booster), where skills like Cannon Buster and Bazooka are at their default speeds (1440ms -> 1440ms + 750ms -> 750ms). Was that intentional?

I forgot the passive speed decrease. I included Booster. Their standard weapon speed is Slow (8), so Booster makes then Normal (6), hence the unchanged speed. I'll fix this in a few hours, gotta go.

Takebacker Wrote:Also, cannoneers benefit fully from SI where sairs don't. How much does this even the gap?
I'll look into it.

Dark Link Wrote:Shock horror, Nexon made another OP class lol
What part of them is overpowered?

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - hadriel - 2011-06-02

Are you able to correct for spell delays instead of base weapon attacking speed?

Fiel & Joe: I did a WA-by-WA check on multiplier values. Apparently, the errors for 2 decimal places and 3 decimal places are so large that 3 d.p. gives me a good number of multipliers to consider, but 2 d.p. gives me only 1 possible value: 1.50 for 180WA.

That is the cleanest possible value for 2 d.p. because the reverse process by putting all the numbers together to check for maximum damage fit (6834 and 7104 both gave the same results with discrepencies in the multiplier of a 6th d.p.) gives 1.50 as the best fit once rounding occurs. All other values will incur rounding defects e.g. 6834.7 will show up as 6835 on the UI.

For 3 d.p. multipliers (I don't remember Nexon ever pulling so much accuracy off) I have [in decreasing "goodness-to-fit"]: 1.579, 1.500, 1.543, 1.517, 1.444. Respective WAs are: 171, 180, 175, 178, 187.

I'm wondering if Spadow has a level 16X character in his KMST account... or an 8X Cygnus... Because I'm trying to see how he gets that 16WA difference from what we see from his EQ.

Hadriel

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - TheCompleteEnd - 2011-06-02

Not very important, but isn't it "Cannon Splasher?"

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - JoeTang - 2011-06-02

hadriel Wrote:Are you able to correct for spell delays instead of base weapon attacking speed?

Fiel & Joe: I did a WA-by-WA check on multiplier values. Apparently, the errors for 2 decimal places and 3 decimal places are so large that 3 d.p. gives me a good number of multipliers to consider, but 2 d.p. gives me only 1 possible value: 1.50 for 180WA.

That is the cleanest possible value for 2 d.p. because the reverse process by putting all the numbers together to check for maximum damage fit (6834 and 7104 both gave the same results with discrepencies in the multiplier of a 6th d.p.) gives 1.50 as the best fit once rounding occurs. All other values will incur rounding defects e.g. 6834.7 will show up as 6835 on the UI.

For 3 d.p. multipliers (I don't remember Nexon ever pulling so much accuracy off) I have [in decreasing "goodness-to-fit"]: 1.579, 1.500, 1.543, 1.517, 1.444. Respective WAs are: 171, 180, 175, 178, 187.

I'm wondering if Spadow has a level 16X character in his KMST account... or an 8X Cygnus... Because I'm trying to see how he gets that 16WA difference from what we see from his EQ.

Hadriel

What do you mean by spell delays? All I can account for is the delay presented in the data here, which represents the time before being able to perform another action after using a skill.

I've updated my calculations from earlier to account for the passive weapon speed change. Cannon Shooters appear to require a nerf to multi-target damage. Monkey Rush Bomb in particular either has a hidden delay in it, Monkey Power Bomb's passive is either an addition and not a multiplication, or it is just too strong.
Its overall endgame appears to rely heavily on its massive amount of range and ridiculous mobbing potential as opposed to single target. Its 2nd job is strong sheerly on the fact it can hit 8 monsters with a rushing skill, and 3rd job is just too strong in general.

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - Brentie - 2011-06-03

Me want.
Seems OP but we won't really know until the HP, and attack speed are known.
It could be the literal glass cannon of the game.

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - IllegallySane - 2011-06-03

Brentie Wrote:Seems OP but we won't really know until the HP, and attack speed are known.
It could be the literal glass cannon of the game.

Haha. AHAHA! They are anything but fragile. A video of one at 120 shows them with 8.5k HP base, ~8,900 HP buffed, and that's before they get Hyper Monkey Magic (aka Bless 2.0). They appear to gain roughly ~70 HP per level, slightly more than a Bucc. They are quite possibly the beefiest ranged physical class in the game.

As seen here, turn quality to 720p to be able to see the HP values.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFLErajIcAA&feature=feedu


*Oh yeah, Joe. Got another question. We are all aware of the base damage of the class with Cannon Buster on 1v1 targets. However, would the Monkey summon and quite possibly the improved Counter Attack (35% chance to deal 160% damage) make a noticeable difference in their DPS to make Corsairs worried?

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - Brentie - 2011-06-03

IllegallySane Wrote:Haha. AHAHA! They are anything but fragile. A video of one at 120 shows them with 8.5k HP base, ~8,900 HP buffed, and that's before they get Hyper Monkey Magic (aka Bless 2.0). They appear to gain roughly ~70 HP per level, slightly more than a Bucc. They are quite possibly the beefiest ranged physical class in the game.

As seen here, turn quality to 720p to be able to see the HP values.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFLErajIcAA&feature=feedu

My bad, I posted without looking for videos lol.
Not as much hp as a warrior, but still a ton more than ranged chars. Best of both worlds I suppose

L>Glass Cannon, that wouldn't be broken

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - Sorien - 2011-06-03

Brentie Wrote:My bad, I posted without looking for videos lol.
Not as much hp as a warrior, but still a ton more than ranged chars. Best of both worlds I suppose

L>Glass Cannon, that wouldn't be broken

Well, they seem more mob oriented, with little to no single targeting capabilities, so they really didn't get the "best" of both worlds. They got the health and mob control of a melee class, while lacking in the single target power that most ranged classes get.

[Adventurers] Cannon Shooter - hadriel - 2011-06-03

Simply put, if a delay has XXXms for normal speed stage 6, are you able to figure out what the delay is for speed stage 5 once the passive increase in attack speed has been factored in?

I kind of like to think of this guy as an artillery... but since when has Nexon ever done anything that needs heavy artillery?

Hadriel