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+--- Thread: Bossing Ability Chart (/showthread.php?tid=16754)
Bossing Ability Chart - USMC - 2009-09-30
Dusk Wrote:[SPOILER=Here's what I made in Excel so far]
Hero Paladin Dark Knight F/P Archmage I/L Archmage Bishop Bowmaster Marksman Night Lord Shadower Buccaneer Corsair Area Bosses (Crog and Under) 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 Manon + Griffey 1 1 1 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 Leviathan 1 1 1 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 Dodo 0 2 0 2 2 2 0 1 1 1 1 1 Lilynouch 0 1 0 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 Lyka - - - - - - - - - - - - Headless Horseman 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 Bigfoot 0 0 0 3 3 4 3 4 2 1 1 3 Anego 3 3 3 2 2 2 1 3 1 3 3 0 Bodyguard A/B + Grandpa 4 4 4 4 4 4 0 1 0 - - 0 Geist Balrog 1 1 1 3 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 Margana 1 1 1 2 2 2 0 1 0 1 1 0 Hsalf 1 1 1 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 Rellik 0 0 0 2 2 2 3 3 3 1 1 3 Red Nirg 0 1 0 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 2 Pianus 1 1 1 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 Papulatus 1 1 1 2 2 2 0 1 1 1 1 0 Zakum 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 Horntail - - - - - - - - - - - - Pink Bean - - - - - - - - - - - -
Here are something I'd like to point out:
Manno/griffey: Pally is decent at manon(ice weak), but not as good at griffey(best charge being holy). BM, MM, and maybe bucc can receive a 0 however. BM/MM can puppet behind and fire away without being hit at all. Bucc doesn't do as much DPS, but it's basically go and fight, the pot usage is minimum too(if that counts as a factor).
Leviathan: It's neither weak to ice or fire, so pally should be a 2 here. Again BM and MM should be 0, puppet makes it way too easy.
Lilynouch: It's weak to lightning, so pally deserves a 0, and i/l deserves a 1. And the puppet trick works against him too I suppose.
Headless Horseman: Basically any ranged class should be 0, too easy to keep it pinned. f/p should be 2, since chain lightning is much more effective than paralyze.
Papulatus: Hero/DrK and MM should be 0, pally should be 1(or 2).
Zakum: Pally should be 2, MM should be 0.
Bossing Ability Chart - Phoenix - 2009-10-07
I personally think NL's should be a 3 for BF, and BM's a 2.
This is just from personal observations, but BM's can pretty effectively keep BF pinned, without spawns interfereing with Hurricane due to Phoenix. Where as I've never seen a NL pin BF, it's more of an attack->DS->walk to to other side ->attack.
The only time i did see a NL kill BF faster than a BM was when he had an SE mule, and was also significantly higher in level.
And for Manon/Griffrey, BM/MM defintely do well here with puppet, and Melee classes also do well by avoiding dispel/stun via hugging it.
Bossing Ability Chart - fiftyschmooo - 2009-10-08
dpeterlin Wrote:Looks like a fairly comprehensive listTotally agreed^
but...is it actually based on anything other then elemenntal resists,pinnability and general biases (whether inherent or perceived)against certain classes?
perhaps its a lack of variety of bosses in the game
but the lsit seems to boil down to ranged boss or melee boss, elementally weak or not -- appears to be common sense -- i.e. if youre a warrior dont go to anego
perhaps i was hoping for too much
i would like a revisit to zak
all 0s and 1s just doesnt sit right with me
bishops receive 2s at all cwkpq bosses -- but send them into zak and now theyre at a 1?
fatigue by the end of the list? most commonly recruited classes all receive 0s and the rest get 1s
dont get me wrong -- if i wanted a list of how everyone feels certain classes do at certain bosses id come to sp first
i was just expecting a little more substance
How come you have every class as a 0 or a 1 on Zakum, i wouldn't really stack a ArchMage or a Bishop as a 1 on Zakum. Their body damage is from what ive seen ~ half that of any other major attacker and i feel they shoudl be at least a 2 or even a 3 (2 if your gonna go blah blah they pwn arms) (3 if you actually use your brain)and you should consider possiblly only letting like 2 or 3 classes share each # value so that it's a visual representation of how good each is on a given boss. Like for Zakum you have Hero Bowmaster NightLord and Corsair as 0 (best) and EVERYONE else as a 1(good) the way your letting it out to be is that Corsair=BM=NL=Hero on Zakum. and you prety much are also saying that a Shadower=Marksman=Archmage on Zakum. When i would take a Marksman ANYDAY over a shadower or Archmage after seeing their damages during training and in boss runs. But if your just trying to give a list of how good they are at X boss and not how they stack up thats alright... but cuold be fixed by giving them the approperate values for their classes.
like just as bam here it is kinda thing while @ work and not thinking toooo deeply about it... this is how i wuodl have set up Zakum's #'s (and yes i threw a NL @ 1 cause im assuming it is a solo run)
Hero 0 Paladin 2 Dark Knight 2 F/P Archmage 3 I/L Archmage 3Bishop 4 Bowmaster 0 Marksman 1 Night Lord 1 Shadower 4Buccaneer 1 Corsair 0
And a Corsair can hug bosses also, i do it in cwkpq when were fighting the Archer boss of stun/seal doom, and i woudl assume ship would last long enough to use it there also and since its bump damage is only what.. 3.5.. maybe 4K at the most? (have only been there with a Hero with PG on) the ship should last long enough to dish out the 3M damage needed to kill it.. since now i easily pop dam close to 100K per cannon, only problematic point i see would be if it does manage to hit you with other attacks liek its dispell or stun might be a little hard since you would need to re-bullseye it and be hoppin around map and coudl end up taking like extra few mins that you didnt need to take ^_^
Bossing Ability Chart - Shidoshi - 2009-10-08
USMC Wrote:Headless Horseman: Basically any ranged class should be 0, too easy to keep it pinned. f/p should be 2, since chain lightning is much more effective than paralyze.
I don't get this, unless you are talking about HH at maps with Jr. Wraiths that would interfere with pinning, paralyze is much better (crossroads 1, 2 and 3, creeping evil and forgotten path have no jr. wraiths).
Plus, F/Ps have slow more commonly, which helps A LOT at pinning.
Bossing Ability Chart - KaidaTan - 2009-10-08
fiftyschmooo Wrote:And a Corsair can hug bosses also, i do it in cwkpq when were fighting the Archer boss of stun/seal doom, and i woudl assume ship would last long enough to use it there also and since its bump damage is only what.. 3.5.. maybe 4K at the most? (have only been there with a Hero with PG on) the ship should last long enough to dish out the 3M damage needed to kill it.. since now i easily pop dam close to 100K per cannon, only problematic point i see would be if it does manage to hit you with other attacks liek its dispell or stun might be a little hard since you would need to re-bullseye it and be hoppin around map and coudl end up taking like extra few mins that you didnt need to take ^_^I have done this. The boat lasts a minute and a half at best. It's horridly inefficient. Also, you have to jump-attack forward almost every time you attack since you're being KB'd back every second or so. The most I'd give Corsairs there is a 2.
I submit that Bowmasters and Marksmen should have 0's on Manon, Griffy, Dodo, Lilynouch, and Pap due to being able to do the entire fight with little to no damage because of Puppet.
Here's what I think on Horntail/Pink Bean
| Hero | Paladin | Dark Knight | F/P Archmage | I/L Archmage | Bishop | Bowmaster | Marksman | Night Lord | Shadower | Buccaneer | Corsair | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Horntail | 1 | 2 | 1 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
| Pink Bean | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 1 |
At Horntail Bishops are obviously required, but I gave them a ranking based on the damage they do. They don't get a 4 simply because of their summon control. Every good attacker gets a 1, but Pallies got a 2 because they can only hit 1 target, and for not as much.
Warriors are necessary to some extent, but their damage will be lacking in some of the Phases. Bishops are damn near useless, even for heal. Res and Dispel are what you bring them for. Shads and Buccs have obvious problems with hitting their target, and a much bigger problem with being killed by their target in Phase 6. Night Lords get a 0 because of their mobility and avoid (which could save the day, really) and because they can attack under statues.
EDIT: Wow, I just noticed that Cyanne said a lot of the same things like... 25 posts ago. By the way Cyanne, even a ridiculously strong Hero (I used 17k max range) could only barely do the 280k necessary to KB him. It's easier and more reliable to just use rush.
Bossing Ability Chart - Nikkey - 2009-10-08
... When I was a white knight, if I were able to do Headless Horsemen instead of Himes, I'd level up faster.
They're lightning-weak, and Palas should thus receive 0.
Bossing Ability Chart - USMC - 2009-10-09
Shidoshi Wrote:I don't get this, unless you are talking about HH at maps with Jr. Wraiths that would interfere with pinning, paralyze is much better (crossroads 1, 2 and 3, creeping evil and forgotten path have no jr. wraiths).
Plus, F/Ps have slow more commonly, which helps A LOT at pinning.
Does para even pin? o.O
CL is much better because HH is lightning weak, and CL is a bit faster too. Though it's still not enough to keep it pinned even with maxed slow. CL also has an upper hand when there are mobs interfering, it hits 6.
Bossing Ability Chart - Stereo - 2009-10-09
Phoenix Wrote:I personally think NL's should be a 3 for BF, and BM's a 2.
This is just from personal observations, but BM's can pretty effectively keep BF pinned, without spawns interfereing with Hurricane due to Phoenix. Where as I've never seen a NL pin BF, it's more of an attack->DS->walk to to other side ->attack.
The only time i did see a NL kill BF faster than a BM was when he had an SE mule, and was also significantly higher in level.
well of course you can't just kill a BF in the same time as a BM, NLs have very poor solo dps especially on bosses, and BMs are #2 overall.
That doesn't mean they rate a 3 though, I can pin a BF but I have to stop to recast SP several times a fight, and it takes a while to pin it again. It's probably not as smooth as someone who can tank his hits or hurricane can do it, but it is possible to pin even with L7. On the other hand, dark sight+FJ is extremely useful - I can safely avoid being killed by dickass warriors.
If warriors are 1 I'd put NL at a minimum of 2, possibly also 1.
Bossing Ability Chart - Dual - 2009-10-09
Stereo Wrote:If warriors are 1 I'd put NL at a minimum of 2, possibly also 1.
[COLOR="Green"]I'd say Warrior 1 NL 2, because warriors have a higher survival rate thanks to their health, and they can also recast their buffs without having to worry about repinning, thanks to Rush just placing it back in the corner.
Also, with the whole PB issue, I would really like to state that if Nexon puts the P resist to the way it SHOULD be, Paladins would be much more useful. Lightning would let us not be weakened, even though that means we're already doing about 60% of normal Brandish without Reduction, but its still something.
Currently we have a crap version that means a Paladin is both Neutral damage and Elementaldamage, meaning we are breaking the laws of physics, even for Nexon.[/COLOR]
Bossing Ability Chart - Stereo - 2009-10-09
For future reference, my Paladin has been hit 8 times by a BF and died 8 times. My NL has been hit 8 times and died once. >_>
Bossing Ability Chart - Dual - 2009-10-09
Stereo Wrote:For future reference, my Paladin has been hit 8 times by a BF and died 8 times. My NL has been hit 8 times and died once. >_>
[COLOR="Green"]The difference is that with Rush, a Paladin doesn't even have to get hit at all.
On a completely different note, I would also like to propose to the creator that Hero = Pally on Ice Weak bosses due to your logic that 10% damage difference on Lightning weak is too little to care about.[/COLOR]
Bossing Ability Chart - Tamillan - 2009-10-12
Stereo Wrote:well of course you can't just kill a BF in the same time as a BM, NLs have very poor solo dps especially on bosses, and BMs are #2 overall.
That doesn't mean they rate a 3 though, I can pin a BF but I have to stop to recast SP several times a fight, and it takes a while to pin it again. It's probably not as smooth as someone who can tank his hits or hurricane can do it, but it is possible to pin even with L7. On the other hand, dark sight+FJ is extremely useful - I can safely avoid being killed by dickass warriors.
If warriors are 1 I'd put NL at a minimum of 2, possibly also 1.
Hmm...whats the trick to pin BF as a NL? When i tried to spammed TT, 2 attacks go through, then it starts walking to me, then another 2 attacks go through...then i have to use dark sight....
Bossing Ability Chart - ArbalistMaster - 2009-10-18
Stereo Wrote:Just noticed you missed Ergoth too, he goes something likeI dont think I've ever tried but I'm not too sure of being able to land a pierce on all 5 of them. snipe rules with the wdef cancel and low hp though
ergoth ~ 0 4 0 4 4 3 1 0 1 1 1 0
Justified in that 5 statues = best for Hero/Drk/MM, and he's i/l/f/p/h resistant, healable... but he dies fast anyway so who cares.
If I remember correctly his statues only have about 1mil hp, so a party marksmen working together could Pierce-ko in 1 shot :/
Bossing Ability Chart - Stereo - 2009-10-19
Tamillan Wrote:Hmm...whats the trick to pin BF as a NL?
I can't consistently push him back, so I wait until he's at the end of a platform before attacking.
If you stand at near max range (like 350 pixels) consecutive TTs do hit him, and as long as he's at the edge of a platform, you can just keep doing that. When you push him it gets iffy since you have to pause to step forward and keep him in the right range, and it's easy to miss in that time. Still doable but way harder.
Easiest way is on Forgotten Path, wait until he's jumping up onto a step, and attack him. He lands and is KB'd, so he's instantly at the end of the platform.
Bossing Ability Chart - Dusk - 2009-10-19
If anyone wants to expand on this idea and actually make a good chart, feel free. Too busy/lazy, sorry.