KhainiWest Wrote:If the fodder marines could live, I'm pretty sure Monet did. It be different if the icycle was still impaled, but it was in the ground, oda doesn't make those type of mistakes, those are typically signs.

Lozmaster Wrote:Oh please, Oda makes mistakes all the time. Just 2 chapters, ago he couldn't even keep track of luffy and zoros scars and switched them around.

http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/698/16
(Bottom panel)

Lozmaster Wrote:That persons "good explanation" isn't foolproof. Yeah, it didn't have the spike in it afterwards, so? Caeser clearly thought he had done enough to kill the person who the heart belonged to. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked "Why are you alive smoker?" later, once he saw that smoker was fine.

KhainiWest Wrote:If the fodder marines could live, I'm pretty sure Monet did. It be different if the icycle was still impaled, but it was in the ground, oda doesn't make those type of mistakes, those are typically signs.

A good explanation;

http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=37135&page=32&p=2792305&viewfull=1


Post 629

Lozmaster Wrote:Oh please, Oda makes mistakes all the time. Just 2 chapters, ago he couldn't even keep track of luffy and zoros scars and switched them around.

http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/698/16
(Bottom panel)

That persons "good explanation" isn't foolproof. Yeah, it didn't have the spike in it afterwards, so? Caeser clearly thought he had done enough to kill the person who the heart belonged to. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked "Why are you alive smoker?" later, once he saw that smoker was fine.

yoosergio Wrote:And why the hell would Law be switching bodies around? The crew would've noticed and said something. Law wouldn't do something like that just for pomegranates and giggles while talking about serious stuff, anyways.

KhainiWest Wrote:I was regarding to the "ultimate" poison that froze all of them in their shells. Honestly, if Oda wanted to show she was dead, there would be an ice pick impaled through it. The end. The fact that it's not impaled and for whatever reason, in the ground, is purposely there to question if he really did manage to leave a leathal blow.

Rona Wrote:I think it's about as good as saying Crocodile isn't really missing an arm based on the fact that Oda forgot to draw it in on that cover page. He ended up fixing it way later when the tankobon were released. I agree that it doesn't really matter whether she's alive or dead to me either way, but I doubt Oda would leave such easily spotted visual cues about a character's survival on purpose. It would have totally ruined the gravity of the moment in terms of how she was killed in the knick of time to save the others on the island (including possibly Vergo), and that's not really like Oda.

KhainiWest Wrote:A cover page doesn't really have significance to the story. I would think in the middle of drawing the landscape and specifically drawing that stake, that it would be positioned in the heart if the intention was death. Also that's not accurate either, Oda has constantly stripped the significance of moments like that, Pell being the biggest.

Can you name me one time that one piece has completely off'd a character who's intentions weren't entirely clear? Yes she wants to help donflamingo become pirate king, however, who gave the note to chopper? It was most likely was her and for what reason did she want them to escape? Plus majority of villains, I would say 90% aren't killed but reformed. Bellamy/nero were examples to essentially to show how cruel the actual villains are, so they aren't good examples as to oda's writing style, where he milks every death scene for what it's worth.

Now that I think about it almost every villain has been revisited besides don kreig and Kuro

Rona Wrote:On the contrary - Oda has consistently used his cover arcs as a narrative means to show the reader what previously dispatched characters are up to, and, especially in the case of Crocodile, to set characters up for later re-introduction. Crocodile was set up to be re-introduced as a major character in Impel Down this way; the cover arc illustrated for us his refusal to leave his imprisonment. Also, Hachi's cover arc was used to redeem his character from his villanous role in the Arlong arc, which later paved the way for his re-introduction as a major player in the Shabondi storyline. Oda's chapter covers don't always contain story-relevant material but when they do, they're definitely important. But I guess this would be another debate over opinions, ahaha;

Rona Wrote:Keep in mind that Oda has his own team of assistants to draw in scenery for him, and has himself said he mostly is responsible for character artwork rather than landscapes. I'm sure he does draw landscapes himself but it's more likely that background elements are assigned to assistants.
Also, we never actually saw physical evidence of Pell's body after that explosion either, whereas we clearly saw that icicle driven through her heart. And again, where that icicle ended up after that doesn't cover up the fact that it was stabbed into her heart first.

Rona Wrote:I do agree there's definitely reason to revisit her character, though. I was very curious myself as to what her intentions were when it came to letting Chopper go. But until Oda himself lets us know in detail what happened to her, I still feel like she's more likely dead than not. Oda could just as easily reveal what her intentions were in other ways, such as by revealing her affiliation with another party. I happened to feel that her death was meant to emphasize of Caesar+Doflamingo's cruelty just like Bellamy and Nero's were, and it adds a wonderful element of suspense since we won't be able to figure out what she was up to until Oda decides he wants to explain. Also, the only time he really milks death scenes are when the characters in question are protagonists, really...but in hindsight, I can't say it's rather fair to map Oda's writing style to a specific formula, either. To do so would suggest he's predictable, and he's most certainly not. But, like I said, if he does end up somehow explaining her survival, I'll stand corrected. xD

KhainiWest Wrote:Specifically to your example it was irrelevant. I think you would assume I'm aware that coverart does have significance in general as I have mentioned CP9 twice now which was only covered by the cover art :|



It's not clearly through her heart, hell were not even sure if the icicle was large enough to pierce it. Considering how close it was too the characters, that wouldn't hold much ground, as Oda would have definitely drawn something that close to proximity.



It was specifically made a point she had an interest in astrology, which is going to become a big element to one piece soon. Oda hates writing death scenes, he has admitted this many a time, and Oda is very predictable when it comes to death scenes. Her character is way to ambiguous to be left to rot. She'll most likely get the same treatment lucci did.

Rona Wrote:My example was perfectly relevant, though. You were arguing that we should take artwork seriously as it is depicted to represent Oda's true intentions in the case of the icicle left at the side of the heart after it was stabbed. I was merely pointing towards an example of an instance where art does not reflect what Oda meant to depict. But it's far more of a stretch to say that the blood gushing from that heart wasn't real and that Oda didn't mean for her heart to be punctured at all, as if that blood was somehow a fluke and Caesar only meant to gently nudge what he thought was Smoker's heart out of spite. I just can't agree that she's still alive when the only explanations for her importance are purely speculative. Enel finding a Poneglyph on the moon is significant, surely, but Oda could just as easily explain that Monet read the signs early and foresaw Chopper's significance in the future using her astrology. You could also speculate that the reason she was so willing to die at that instant was because she foresaw her coming death by reading the stars, but just not in the way she had imagined. All of this is obviously speculative, though, but I could just as easily justify my belief that she's dead with such speculations until Oda himself tells us otherwise.

KhainiWest Wrote:Kind of like when he was talking about the seriousness about luffy going in without a plan only to fall victim to their personalities saying he doesnt like bread?

I also dont know why you would think that they'd tell law to stop, luffy would find that fun if anything, see when robin was recruited.

KhainiWest Wrote:I believe the cube is filled with blood rather than the heart. We won't know until it show's in the anime though (smokers heart). I base my prediction on how oda handles death in general though. Read the edit though I'm sure you missed it

yoosergio Wrote:He said the bread thing subconsciously, I don't think he would switch bodies around without being fully aware of it.

I don't think they'd tell him to stop (not Luffy, at least), but they would've remarked it in some way.

Although it would certainly be fun if Law really did that, I think it's only a mistake.

Rona Wrote:All still speculation though, of course. Law's always been able to remove and mix around body parts without them bleeding all over the place, so it remains to be seen. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree, haha. I do agree that it's nice to be able to discuss One Piece with someone equally as impassioned about the characters, though. Most of my friends never got into it. Oda's so immensely talented to have been able to write characters and scenarios we can all feel so strongly for.



I agree that it was subconscious. The final panel on that page shows him being absolutely flabbergasted that he allowed himself to be drawn into the crew's laid back attitude in the face of such a serious threat. Just goes to show how infectiously charming the crew is, haha. It certainly would be interesting if he ended up using his powers to mess with the crew, but for now he seems to be playing the straight man.