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+---- Thread: Diablo3 class thread (/showthread.php?tid=46910)
Diablo3 class thread - Dark Link - 2012-07-08
I play off and on, but mostly on alts. I'll do 1 or 2 short farming sessions on my Barb, then get bored real quick.
Diablo3 class thread - Shidoshi - 2012-07-08
I lost motivation when I hit inferno act 2 with my barb and realized I'd have to farm items to progress. Nothing more boring than doing the same thing over and over again and/or playing like an armored chicken.
Diablo3 class thread - Zenkat - 2012-07-09
I still dont see the problem. Diablo 2 wasnt any different. Still did hundreds of boss runs for gold loot which usually never panned out. In my entire lifetime of D2X, i never found more than 1 stormshield, or 1 windforce. I've already found a stormshield in D3. I cant wait for 1.0.4 or 1.1 when legendaries finally get beefy.
Diablo3 class thread - JoeTang - 2012-07-09
Zenkat Wrote:I still dont see the problem. Diablo 2 wasnt any different. Still did hundreds of boss runs for gold loot which usually never panned out. In my entire lifetime of D2X, i never found more than 1 stormshield, or 1 windforce. I've already found a stormshield in D3. I cant wait for 1.0.4 or 1.1 when legendaries finally get beefy.
I found a Legendary Sacred Armor once. Died a little inside when it IDed a Templar's Might. The difficulty would be similar to D2 if there wasn't duping in that, if not moreso for non-Hammerdin builds. I don't understand why people complain about GAH/RMAH when without it they would be on D2jsp bartering or have quit already.
Diablo3 class thread - Zenkat - 2012-07-09
JoeTang Wrote:I found a Legendary Sacred Armor once. Died a little inside when it IDed a Templar's Might. The difficulty would be similar to D2 if there wasn't duping in that, if not moreso for non-Hammerdin builds. I don't understand why people complain about GAH/RMAH when without it they would be on D2jsp bartering or have quit already.
Yeah, a Tyrael's Might is something i never managed to find in D2. Too bad.
Diablo3 class thread - happylight - 2012-07-09
Majority of d2 players only played through normal once and never played it again. This is pretty much what we're seeing in d3 except people also do nightmare and hell. If you don't enjoy item grinding... well... it's the whole point of the game.
Diablo3 class thread - Polantaris - 2012-07-09
happylight Wrote:Majority of d2 players only played through normal once and never played it again. This is pretty much what we're seeing in d3 except people also do nightmare and hell. If you don't enjoy item grinding... well... it's the whole point of the game.
Except D2's defeat was a visible goal. It was something you could see yourself doing. Not here. You can't even get past Act I of Inferno without grinding for a month and a half...then you repeat that for Act II, and again for Act III....and yet again for Act IV? What the pineapple? I'm sorry that WoW people find that fun, but don't pineapple over Diablo with that pomegranate. D2 was hard to beat Hell, yes, but at no point was the goal literally impossible without spending a year and a half grinding.
To add on, at least in Hell Difficulty on Diablo 2 you were still leveling up. You max out at 60 on D3, and the second you do everything goes haywire. You have NO CHANCE of becoming stronger by just playing normally. Nope. You MUST grind gear. You can't even hope that you get that one extra point in some skill that might save your ass. Nope. Instead, the ENTIRE game is reliant on Equipment. Not how well you built your character, or how well you did your skills. Nope. 100% Equipment.
Plus, everytime I turn around Blizzard does more to pineapple us in the ass in terms of grinding for gear. What did 1.03 do? Remove Magic Find on Chests and nerf boss drops? Seriously? Not enough people using the RMAH Blizzard?
Diablo3 class thread - happylight - 2012-07-10
Polantaris Wrote:Except D2's defeat was a visible goal. It was something you could see yourself doing. Not here. You can't even get past Act I of Inferno without grinding for a month and a half...then you repeat that for Act II, and again for Act III....and yet again for Act IV? What the pineapple? I'm sorry that WoW people find that fun, but don't pineapple over Diablo with that pomegranate. D2 was hard to beat Hell, yes, but at no point was the goal literally impossible without spending a year and a half grinding.
A month and a half? The game's not even out for two months... I don't think you need to grind at all now to pass inferno with avg gear in AH so cheap. Hell... someone's cleared inferno without skipping any elites on less than 500k worth of gear. You'd pick up more than 1m gold just from a single play through of normal to hell.
Diablo3 class thread - Polantaris - 2012-07-10
happylight Wrote:A month and a half? The game's not even out for two months... I don't think you need to grind at all now to pass inferno with avg gear in AH so cheap. Hell... someone's cleared inferno without skipping any elites on less than 500k worth of gear. You'd pick up more than 1m gold just from a single play through of normal to hell.
Yes, one person did something so that means everyone everywhere can. I love how one person got really lucky and that magically sets a standard. People see what gear he had on and guess what, that means any similar gear gets jacked up in price insanely, because it's what you need to beat Inferno. Now it's not average gear anymore, now it's overpriced.
See that's what happens when a game is 100% based upon an Auction House, or hoping you get really really really lucky. You either get really really really lucky, which most people don't, or you have to suffer the torment of the Auction House, where anything goes. Want that one stat? Well people think it's useful so now anything with it is worth a fortune.
I bought everything I could afford from the Auction House with the stats you need, high resistance, high damage, high primary, etc etc etc. Everything you need to be able to survive more than a hit. Guess what, I still die almost instantly to anything. Maybe I bought the wrong things, but it doesn't matter. Now I'm broke. Now what do I do? Grind? Okay, so I killed Hell Diablo 50 times. I still have nothing. Not only do I have nothing, I have nothing I could possibly hope to sell. The money I got the first time didn't buy me anything that helped me, so how could I possibly expect it to do it now? The entire game is grinding. Grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. One way or another, you're grinding. You're either grinding for gold, or grinding for gear. It's 100x worse than MapleStory. At least if you grind in MS, you get something out of it. Not here.
Let me just mention something: You have to remember that people have jobs. Just because someone got something insane done in a month of the game being released does not mean that everyone can. That person probably did nothing else all day, except play Diablo III. Not everyone can do that. The people who can't get screwed over even more, because while these no-lifers are breaking every aspect of the game, Blizzard is patching every possible advantage you could ever have out, like the drop reductions and the Magic Find being removed from Chests. So yes, it could very well take a month or more for me to ever beat Inferno Act I, and that's if I spent every day after my 12 hours it takes between I leave home form work and get home playing this game. Even if I did nothing else with my life, it would still take way too long.
No thanks. I beat Hell, I got my fill. I'm done until they make Inferno more realistically beatable, which may be never. At least there's still 4 other classes if I'm in the mood for that.
Diablo3 class thread - JoeTang - 2012-07-10
This game that's based completely on itemisation and designed to be challenging and meant to take months of progression to beat isn't beatable in a month with bad items, it's broken please fix it.
Diablo3 class thread - happylight - 2012-07-10
Polantaris Wrote:Yes, one person did something so that means everyone everywhere can. I love how one person got really lucky and that magically sets a standard. People see what gear he had on and guess what, that means any similar gear gets jacked up in price insanely, because it's what you need to beat Inferno. Now it's not average gear anymore, now it's overpriced.
It's not just one person man. A lot of streamers were doing these cheap budget challenges. These aren't some specialty builds that require special stat'ed items. These are using average items that really CAN'T rise in price because there are so many of them in the auction house.
My advice is proper min-maxing. Don't look for items that has everything. An item with main stat, vit, and all resist will cost you a bundle. But an item with high main stat, zero vit and zero resist will cost you next to nothing. Then for another slot go for an item that has no main stat, high vit and zero resist which would also be worth next to nothing, and so on. It does require you to plan ahead instead of buying things piece by piece.
Also experiment with different play styles. A friend of mine had been playing a DH since she bought the game. She dropped a lot of gold on it and but was still dying a lot. She got really frustrated with it so she rolled a wizard. After getting it to lv60 she went back to her DH and suddenly she wasn't dying as much at all with no gear change and no skill change. Proper kiting on kiting classes can mean a world of difference.
Diablo3 class thread - clickmebaby2 - 2012-07-10
Polantaris Wrote:Except D2's defeat was a visible goal. It was something you could see yourself doing. Not here. You can't even get past Act I of Inferno without grinding for a month and a half...then you repeat that for Act II, and again for Act III....and yet again for Act IV? What the pineapple? I'm sorry that WoW people find that fun, but don't pineapple over Diablo with that pomegranate. D2 was hard to beat Hell, yes, but at no point was the goal literally impossible without spending a year and a half grinding.
To add on, at least in Hell Difficulty on Diablo 2 you were still leveling up. You max out at 60 on D3, and the second you do everything goes haywire. You have NO CHANCE of becoming stronger by just playing normally. Nope. You MUST grind gear. You can't even hope that you get that one extra point in some skill that might save your ass. Nope. Instead, the ENTIRE game is reliant on Equipment. Not how well you built your character, or how well you did your skills. Nope. 100% Equipment.
Plus, everytime I turn around Blizzard does more to pineapple us in the ass in terms of grinding for gear. What did 1.03 do? Remove Magic Find on Chests and nerf boss drops? Seriously? Not enough people using the RMAH Blizzard?
not sure if srs...
anyone can farm act I with 1m or under... i did that for several days after i hitted lvl 60 on my barb.
Diablo3 class thread - Shidoshi - 2012-07-10
Farming Act 1 on inferno is not hard at all. I managed to do it with the money and gear I had from clearing Hell just once. I just spent part of that money on good purchases on the action house.
Diablo3 class thread - Polantaris - 2012-07-10
I'll admit that Act I Inferno isn't that hard to farm for, but that's about it. After that it's days upon days of wasted time farming for gear for it to simply be replaced an hour of actual content later. In the case of Act IV, it will just be replaced when they make the first of probably many expansions.
And sure, I was exaggerating on the numbers of how long it takes, but it certainly feels that way. When I farm for gear in D3, I spend hours upon hours of time, and feel like absolutely nothing has changed or been accomplished. At all. I know that the second I get to the next area, if I even got the funds or the gear to get there, I'll be completely repeating the process as if I had never done it in the first place. What part of that sounds enjoyable? If this were not Diablo 3, and were not a Blizzard game, people would be bitching left and right. They do for MS ("Grinding a level takes to long, it takes a whole hour to level up to 15x+! Nexon should do something about this!"), they do for plenty of other MMOs, but because it's Blizzard suddenly it's okay. Now instead of "They should fix this!" it's "Oh it's only a few days of grinding."
Diablo3 class thread - Zenkat - 2012-07-10
Polantaris Wrote:I'll admit that Act I Inferno isn't that hard to farm for, but that's about it. After that it's days upon days of wasted time farming for gear for it to simply be replaced an hour of actual content later. In the case of Act IV, it will just be replaced when they make the first of probably many expansions.
And sure, I was exaggerating on the numbers of how long it takes, but it certainly feels that way. When I farm for gear in D3, I spend hours upon hours of time, and feel like absolutely nothing has changed or been accomplished. At all. I know that the second I get to the next area, if I even got the funds or the gear to get there, I'll be completely repeating the process as if I had never done it in the first place. What part of that sounds enjoyable? If this were not Diablo 3, and were not a Blizzard game, people would be bitching left and right. They do for MS ("Grinding a level takes to long, it takes a whole hour to level up to 15x+! Nexon should do something about this!"), they do for plenty of other MMOs, but because it's Blizzard suddenly it's okay. Now instead of "They should fix this!" it's "Oh it's only a few days of grinding."
This is the argument people make that i cant understand. In D2, it was rush rush rush to level, wear good gear, beat Baal in hell. Then endless Baal runs for eternity for a few more levels that dont make you a whole lot stronger.
In D3, the game actually has a challenging aspect to it to make you find the gear you need to progress, and hone your killing skills to progress. Because people cant beat inferno with garbage gear within a few weeks, people are outraged. If you dont like long-winded games, then GTFO. I'm planning to play this thing to the end. That means beating Inferno with all 5 classes in softcore. Maybe i'm just getting old and dont mind taking my time with the progression. I never feel let down because my farming runs always end up getting me gold even I cant use the rares i find. Eventually that gold leads to better items for all my classes.
And we must not forget about PVP and the legendaries buff. I'm quite looking forward to those additions.
TL;DR - kids are fucking impatient these days. Maybe i'm biased because i took over 6 years to reach 200 on my Hero in Maplestory.
Diablo3 class thread - Polantaris - 2012-07-10
Zenkat Wrote:This is the argument people make that i cant understand. In D2, it was rush rush rush to level, wear good gear, beat Baal in hell. Then endless Baal runs for eternity for a few more levels that dont make you a whole lot stronger.
It was mostly the Cow Level from what I remember. But that might have changed later on in the game's life, I don't know. I haven't played it recently. Even so, you still actually beat the game. What you choose to do from there is your own decision. If you want to make your character more powerful for no reason, go right ahead. In D3 you don't even get the pleasure of beating the game before they force equipment farming.
Zenkat Wrote:In D3, the game actually has a challenging aspect to it to make you find the gear you need to progress, and hone your killing skills to progress. Because people cant beat inferno with garbage gear within a few weeks, people are outraged. If you dont like long-winded games, then GTFO. I'm planning to play this thing to the end. That means beating Inferno with all 5 classes in softcore. Maybe i'm just getting old and dont mind taking my time with the progression. I never feel let down because my farming runs always end up getting me gold even I cant use the rares i find. Eventually that gold leads to better items for all my classes.
It's challenging to repeat the same activities you know you will succeed at a thousand times over so that you can continue on with the game? How is that challenging?
I have no problem with long winded games. I played, beat, and completed Dragon Quest VII, the single longest PSX game (Over 100 hours just to beat the game, not including grinding, this is pure content, and another 100+ to beat the bonus dungeons). I have a problem with doing the SAME EXACT thing over and over and over, and seeing absolutely no change, no reward, nothing. I have absolutely no issue with long games. Hell, I've always loved long games. I hate pointless games. Inferno makes the game pointless.
Zenkat Wrote:And we must not forget about PVP and the legendaries buff. I'm quite looking forward to those additions.
Because PVP is anything but one sided, and Legendaries are going to just make the grind take that much longer, and be that much more pointless. Yay for looking forward to that.
Zenkat Wrote:TL;DR - kids are pineappleing impatient these days. Maybe i'm biased because i took over 6 years to reach 200 on my Hero in Maplestory.I'm not a kid and I'm not impatient. I simply have a problem with wasting my precious few personal hours doing essentially nothing.
Biased because you took 6 years to get 200? I've been playing MapleStory since GMS was in early beta and I still do not have a Lv.200 character, and have no intense care to get one. I enjoy the game the way it is and don't waste countless hours grinding, instead doing whatever I find fun within the game. Can the game be improved? Certainly. Is it worse than Diablo 3? Not by a long shot. At least you can still do things without the perfect gear you need in D3.
To quote (for truth) a friend who I just mentioned this entire argument to:
"Not even Monster Hunter is this bad. Ragnarok Online MVP card hunting is even more worthwhile than D3 equipment farming."
Diablo3 class thread - clickmebaby2 - 2012-07-10
so why are you playing diablo... just quit it if you hate it that much.
Diablo3 class thread - Polantaris - 2012-07-10
clickmebaby2 Wrote:so why are you playing diablo... just quit it if you hate it that much.
I don't hate Diablo. I hate the equipment grind that they decided was necessary to force you into.
I love Diablo. I've always loved Diablo. I played the hell out of the first game more times than I can count, including it's Hellfire Expansion. I did the same for Diablo 2 as well. Neither game required equipment farming in the magnitude Diablo 3 does. Not even close. Anyone who says it does is a liar.
I like the genre as a whole as well. I've played the hell out of Torchlight, Divine Divinity, and plenty of other similar games. It pains me to see how badly they screwed over Diablo 3. I feel like both WoW's insane popularity with it's own equipment farming coupled with the RMAH has plagued Diablo 3 into something far worse than it should have been (Feel free to flame me all you want for that statement, I don't care).
At the core the game is fine. I enjoyed every moment up until Inferno. It was fun. Inferno is not. It's not because I hate difficulty, quite the opposite. I enjoyed the difficulty on Hell. It was quite possible to beat but had plenty of hard, "I'm probably going to die here, run run run!" moments. Inferno turns the game into a grindfest instead of an enjoyable, hard experience. If Inferno didn't exist I wouldn't have anything bad to say about the game (Except my general distaste for the RMAH, but who can blame me there?).
Diablo3 class thread - Dark Link - 2012-07-10
clickmebaby2 Wrote:so why are you playing diablo... just quit it if you hate it that much.
I love how you only see things in Black and White.
The funny thing with D3 is Blizzard said D3 =/= WoW, yet there's so many mechanics in WoW that are in D3, which have absolutely no reason to be there in the first place.
Enrage Timers?
Gear Checks?
Granted I don't really care for it, because the game is still in its infancy, but come on Blizz :/
Diablo3 class thread - happylight - 2012-07-10
I just think it's funny how some people hate it because it's too hard and some people hate it because it's too easy and there's nothing left after you beat inferno. (go watch Force's vid on why he quit)