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+--- Thread: 4th job Single Target DPS (/showthread.php?tid=6564)
4th job Single Target DPS - Stereo - 2010-12-31
Is DPS actually a concern on any existing boss other than PB? With the number of people who've soloed Zakum, I kinda doubt you could choose a bad party member and fail because they're not a Hero/DrK.
4th job Single Target DPS - Tamillan - 2010-12-31
Well any class can kill any boss now solo/party anything. Its not a problem. Maybe not pb if you don't practice it. Just that ppl now try to take the least amount of ppl they can having the most dps possible to increase the split profit for each person and doing as much dps as possible. In that case there is high competition for those few spots. Best class + best funded gear is what we really need. Like the other classes except hero and maybe dk seem pretty well balanced i guess. However that hero's dps is a bit too high so everyone will prefer taking heros over other classes.
4th job Single Target DPS - JoeTang - 2010-12-31
dpeterlin Wrote:Summon damage isn't directly added into the chars dps. This is how he's done all of his dps charts thus far.
As he explained earlier the deficit for turning octupus on is due to the lowered cannon shots per min because you are using that time to cast octupus.
Cannon shoots at 630ms. Octopus Summons at 810ms. You summon an Octopus about every 16 Cannons. (10.08s) In a minute, that's approximately 6 Octopus, and 87 Cannon Shots. The Octopi would shoot approximately a total of 113 shots. With a 1.18x Critical on Cannon, and I do not know if criticals affect Octopus:
1.18*130500% Cannon + 50850% Octopus = 3414%/s
As opposed to 1.18*2380.95 = 2809.521%/s pure Cannon
A single Octopus will do ~13050%. Cannon takes 8.7 shots to match that. Octopus obviously takes shorter than 5.481s to cast. It shouldn't be possible that Octopus is a deficit. It's fundamentally the same thing as Poison Mist. You spend 810ms to cast a DoT that does ~290%/s that lasts for 45s.
4th job Single Target DPS - TamilTiger1 - 2010-12-31
Tamillan Wrote:Maybe the way i phrased my sentences you got confused. What i meant is lets say a person wants to make a dk and he wants to make superbe godly funded. At one point his dmg will be hitting 1b per sacrifise. Even if he continues cubeing and upgrading for more dmg its still gonne be 1bil. However hero has a 3 bil limit bc 1b x 3. If you give like varsity or nerola's equips to a dk, he will be hitting 1b per sacrifise while nerola/varsityhero will hit like 1.5b per slash. So dk is good if you dont spent too much into funding. Otherwise its not #1 but still in the top. So since dk is knocked out from #1 if godly funded. Then hero takes its place. What class in the sheet can beat a hero? Maybe wh which comes close. Tats about it. The gap between hero and nl is kinda big.
People are confused when you keep saying 1bil, it should be 1mil. You keep making that same mistake. 1bil would mean they can kill pink bean in 10 hits f3.
Anyways the upgrades are not done yet, they are still changing skills are they not? I remember someone saying brave slash will be slower in another patch, i think chaos or did they change that back to normal speed?
to post above:
He did the calculations separately i think. For cannon calculations he used the maximum number of shots per min. If you use octopus during that time cannon is being used you're going to loose a few cannon shots. When I tested it on boat, I loose 2 cannon shots everytime i summon octopus. If you want the total dmg, you need to turn on octopus then add the dmg on octopus + cannon.
BTW octopus calculation says 40,000 ms, it should be 45,000 ms right?
when i do the calculation after this change, i get 882k cannon + 394k octo = 1276k total compared to the 970k you get just for cannon without octo. Calculation seems correct to me.
4th job Single Target DPS - Jellyflower - 2010-12-31
My hero's at the point where she hits cap with intrepid with simply an apple and combat order. So I will not benefit from advanced aura to the fullest, which may be an issue for some people. But for the majority, an equally equipped hero should be better than any other class, not to mention the ability to magic crash and higher tanking hp with powerguard.
4th job Single Target DPS - Tamillan - 2010-12-31
Right sanger. Its 1m not 1 b. LOL. I'm used to buying and selling things at 1b rates in scania. So im used to saying b rather than m. I mean what kind gear well funded ppl use are worth m. its all in bs. Sorry for the confusion. What i really meant is mil.
Yes nerola, I saw one of your ss. But yea if you spend that money on a dk. It wouldnt be very impressive right? Thats why i say dk is very strong but when you spent big amounts of gear and cubeing, it kinda slacks dmg compared to a hero for example. No NL can ever dream of doing 3mil in one TT. Well i understand slash is a bit slower but still...
I gotta really watch out with my mil and bil. LOL.
4th job Single Target DPS - Voyant - 2010-12-31
Jellyflower Wrote:My hero's at the point where she hits cap with intrepid with simply an apple and combat order. So I will not benefit from advanced aura to the fullest, which may be an issue for some people. But for the majority, an equally equipped hero should be better than any other class, not to mention the ability to magic crash and higher tanking hp with powerguard.
Got nothing against heroes..., but a well skilled drk with the same funding still beats hero's...sure hero is easier to play, but with skill a drk can surpass.
***
With that being said I think a simple solution to the PDR issue with Sairs can be made by cubing your wep...not for 30% boss, but to ignore 30% of a mobs PDR. That solves a lot of issues that I have.
4th job Single Target DPS - Stereo - 2011-01-01
Tamillan Wrote:Well any class can kill any boss now solo/party anything. Its not a problem. Maybe not pb if you don't practice it. Just that ppl now try to take the least amount of ppl they can having the most dps possible to increase the split profit for each person and doing as much dps as possible. In that case there is high competition for those few spots. Best class + best funded gear is what we really need. Like the other classes except hero and maybe dk seem pretty well balanced i guess. However that hero's dps is a bit too high so everyone will prefer taking heros over other classes.
Fair enough; but in the extreme upper end (say, 800k+ per attack after accounting for def, cause that's when the cap becomes a problem) you're talking about a character that deals at least 70-80mil dpm on their own. There's not a lot that can stand up to that onslaught from a party - you could form your own boss runs if the heroes don't take you.
4th job Single Target DPS - Tamillan - 2011-01-01
Stereo Wrote:Fair enough; but in the extreme upper end (say, 800k+ per attack after accounting for def, cause that's when the cap becomes a problem) you're talking about a character that deals at least 70-80mil dpm on their own. There's not a lot that can stand up to that onslaught from a party - you could form your own boss runs if the heroes don't take you.
800k x3 since intrepid slash attacks 3 times. So 2.4m per slash. I think it does about 86 times a minute. So 2.4 x 86=206mil a minute. No NL can ever dream of doing that much in whole of gms. =( Maybe with the 293% it might be possible. Well according to nerola she says she does almost dmg cap with criticals now. But yea hero has low % chance of doing that critical. 206 sounds about right in that case bc of the low % chance of critical. I hope fleyx can do that after chaos patch with venom+dark flare.
4th job Single Target DPS - Stereo - 2011-01-01
I was talking about 800k over the entire attack, IE 266k per hit on intrepid slash (which takes at least 45k average range, depending on crits/boss damage/etc. weapon bonuses). Not everybody is Nerola, so 75-80k ranges aren't common...
4th job Single Target DPS - Jellyflower - 2011-01-01
Drk only looks good on paper, if you actually play one, you'll find how horrible and annoying it is to use sacrifice at bossing since it doesn't autopot for you and 11% per sac is quite significant, not to mention its range is so horrible you'll spend more time repositioning yourself rather than attacking. Dps are calculated in best case scenario so when it comes to actually applying in combat, there are some real factors you have to consider. Just take the numbers with a grain of salt. But in terms of efficiency (not get knocked back like archers and corsairs), classes with stance or high avoid fare better than other classes.
I really want to see a skilled dark knight, because I couldn't stand playing mine at all. Sacrifice is just too painful to use, even when I have 38k hp on him.
4th job Single Target DPS - KhainiWest - 2011-01-01
Jellyflower Wrote:Drk only looks good on paper, if you actually play one, you'll find how horrible and annoying it is to use sacrifice at bossing since it doesn't autopot for you and 11% per sac is quite significant, not to mention its range is so horrible you'll spend more time repositioning yourself rather than attacking. Dps are calculated in best case scenario so when it comes to actually applying in combat, there are some real factors you have to consider. Just take the numbers with a grain of salt. But in terms of efficiency (not get knocked back like archers and corsairs), classes with stance or high avoid fare better than other classes.
I really want to see a skilled dark knight, because I couldn't stand playing mine at all. Sacrifice is just too painful to use, even when I have 38k hp on him.
...What are you referring to specifically? I mean you must not have max stance or something. Every boss I play I stand on top of besides chaos zakum, because of seduce obviously, but then you want too pot every 2 sac's so that you at least have 70% hp to work with when seduced. I didn't wash that much and I have only like 30k, not worth the value imo. As for range concerns, it's no less than prebb crusher as far as I'm concerned, making it useless at top zakums arm, and cases in pb, but those are merely phases.
When you do any boss you stand on him, spam it, the end, chaos monsters who typically seduce you're spamming pots anyway to keep your hp high in case you are seduced. Unfortunately majority of the chaos runs ive been on I'm left trio-ing the third body, so a 'seduce party' isn't a luxury I've gotten to keep.
4th job Single Target DPS - Cavalier - 2011-01-01
Out of curiosity, does boss PDRate affect summons? Because it doesn't seem to in the sheet.
4th job Single Target DPS - Tamillan - 2011-01-01
Interesting facts about dk's.... Hmm that doenst sound so good then...Yea thats why i really love my NL bc of its awesome bossing abilities. I know that on paper the dmg of NL isnt very high right now but its awesome avoid/mobility/alchemist really makes bossing useful. Way before big bang came I knew right away the NL dmg wasnt very high compared to a hero for example b/c hero got so much boost like intrepid slash/FA/Combat mastery/More minimum dmg/Enrage/more dmg on blinded monsters/more range, etc etc. NL got wat more TT %, venom, dark flare, more range. I did some calculations myself and knew that hero would be higher in dmg. To be honest im not worried about NLs compared to other classes. THe only class i fear right now of competition is hero for sure. even with all this i doubt ill keep up with a hero's dmg. Well right now in synergy the heros in guild are stil working on gear and upgrading. Im doing the same thing, so I'll see if i really can keep up with a similar funded hero. I hope i can though. Like for example bm is even higher dps than nl, but im sure i can keep up with its dmg easily. We'll see how it goes after the 293% TT update.
4th job Single Target DPS - sicnarf - 2011-01-02
Cavalier Wrote:Out of curiosity, does boss PDRate affect summons? Because it doesn't seem to in the sheet.
I haven't tested it out on bosses, but it doesn't on normal monsters.
Testing
![[Image: Maple0977.jpg]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11373701/Maple0977.jpg)
![[Image: Maple0989.jpg]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11373701/Maple0989.jpg)
4th job Single Target DPS - KhainiWest - 2011-01-02
Tamillan Wrote:Interesting facts about dk's.... Hmm that doenst sound so good then...Yea thats why i really love my NL bc of its awesome bossing abilities. I know that on paper the dmg of NL isnt very high right now but its awesome avoid/mobility/alchemist really makes bossing useful. Way before big bang came I knew right away the NL dmg wasnt very high compared to a hero for example b/c hero got so much boost like intrepid slash/FA/Combat mastery/More minimum dmg/Enrage/more dmg on blinded monsters/more range, etc etc. NL got wat more TT %, venom, dark flare, more range. I did some calculations myself and knew that hero would be higher in dmg. To be honest im not worried about NLs compared to other classes. THe only class i fear right now of competition is hero for sure. even with all this i doubt ill keep up with a hero's dmg. Well right now in synergy the heros in guild are stil working on gear and upgrading. Im doing the same thing, so I'll see if i really can keep up with a similar funded hero. I hope i can though. Like for example bm is even higher dps than nl, but im sure i can keep up with its dmg easily. We'll see how it goes after the 293% TT update.
The comments regarding sacrifice were extremely inaccurate disregarding maybe 3 instances.
4th job Single Target DPS - Tamillan - 2011-01-02
DustBunny Wrote:The comments regarding sacrifice were extremely inaccurate disregarding maybe 3 instances.
Well the stance party i understand 95% of time i believe you wont move when you get atked. However potting if it is true that you have to manual pot. Well i guess if you have 30k+ hp its not a real problem. But at pb it will be =(. DK's supreme dmg is so high compared to other classes even hero at pb. If they waste time potting then its not so great. Im just saying this through my guess. I havent played dk so i dont know from experience, but just baseing it on what others said. So I can be wrong. One thing is right is the dmg cap might be a problem to rich pplf f3. If your not so rich then dk is fantastic if auto pot isnt a problem f3.
4th job Single Target DPS - sicnarf - 2011-01-02
It doesn't matter how much HP DrKs have because it's always 11% HP per Sacrifice.
Also if you're going for the damage cap as a DrK, I thought the numbers were fairly interesting. To hit 999,999, you would need 46452 max range at the absolute minimum. 46452 * 1.5 (crit) * 1.6 (zerk) * 6.9 (sacrifice) * 1.3 (boss damage) = 1,000,018.656
That's assuming that crit doesn't break the damage cap, too, because if it doesn't, then it would have be to even higher to reach the damage cap with a non-crit.
Edit: Forgot about 30% boss.
4th job Single Target DPS - Stereo - 2011-01-02
High HP is more about how low you can go without worrying about the boss killing you. If you're fighting something that hits 10k+ then it's better to leave more HP than at Zak (where you'll basically take 1-2k)
4th job Single Target DPS - Voyant - 2011-01-02
Jellyflower Wrote:Drk only looks good on paper, if you actually play one, you'll find how horrible and annoying it is to use sacrifice at bossing since it doesn't autopot for you and 11% per sac is quite significant, not to mention its range is so horrible you'll spend more time repositioning yourself rather than attacking. Dps are calculated in best case scenario so when it comes to actually applying in combat, there are some real factors you have to consider. Just take the numbers with a grain of salt. But in terms of efficiency (not get knocked back like archers and corsairs), classes with stance or high avoid fare better than other classes.
I really want to see a skilled dark knight, because I couldn't stand playing mine at all. Sacrifice is just too painful to use, even when I have 38k hp on him.
[video=youtube;OXdW6Cltc0c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXdW6Cltc0c[/video]