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Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - Printable Version

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Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - Lazershock - 2013-06-08

Arrol Wrote:pomegranatety balancing, that's what.

I said it for dark's pre-revamp, and i'll say it again for paladin's post-revamp. Its inexcusable for a warrior to be that low on the charts; Personally I think in terms of explorer warriors it should be darks in the middle with a balance of attack and defense, heroes with the worst defense but highest attack, and paladins with the best defense but lowest attack.... but this is TOO low for a warrior -.- I agree dat pomegranatety balancing

Looking forward to seeing the charts for dark's to see how they compare to their 2 counterparts (not that I expect them to be AMAZING or anything like heroes, but I surmise they'll at least be better off than paladins T.T


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - JoeTang - 2013-06-08

KMST 1.2.478
Dark Knight:
 Spoiler
 Lamancha Spear
 Sharp Eyes
 50% HP
 Hyper

Found a bug in Dark Knight tables, reposting.


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - ShinkuDragon - 2013-06-08

doesn't take two, doesn't take three, but it takes FOUR paladins to match the damage of a hero.

sweet jesus, if it weren't for the revive skill there would be no reason for pallies, and even then, bishops are much more helpful.


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - JoeTang - 2013-06-08

If anyone knows anyone that can KMST to test out Paladin and Hero damage for Elemental Charge and Combo Attack to confirm they're Total Damage and Multipliers respectively, that'd be cool.

KMST 1.2.489
Dark Knight:
 Spoiler
 Lamancha Spear
 Sharp Eyes
 50% HP
 Hyper



Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - Arrol - 2013-06-08

Hey, Joe. I've found a 4th job Aran video with the updated, now faster Swing skills. Would they make any difference at all?


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - Lazershock - 2013-06-08

So if we compare them all at fast 3 (which as far as I know is as high as they can get without outside assistance) 19.2k hero, 11.8k dark, 5.1k paladin..... something here doesn't match up -.- Imo hero is fine where it is since its supposed to be the warrior with the weakest defenses but the highest damage. Maybe boost dark a bit up to 14~15k DPS and boost Paladin to 10k to even it all out

Darks turned out to be pretty impressive overall so im glad about that. @JoeTang would it be possible to run a calculation with beholder and sacrifice both being spammable due to buff duration 50%?


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - JoeTang - 2013-06-08

[MENTION=7678]ShinkuDragon[/MENTION], [MENTION=12571]Lazershock[/MENTION]

60s Sacrifice
Dark Knight:
 Spoiler
 Lamancha Spear
 Sharp Eyes
 50% HP
 Hyper

Arrol Wrote:Hey, Joe. I've found a 4th job Aran video with the updated, now faster Swing skills. Would they make any difference at all?

I'd have to know the exact values, and it doesn't appear Double Swing and Triple Swing have had their delay changed, so I assume it's only Attack that was changed. I'd rather not make an estimate through video analysis.


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - Lazershock - 2013-06-08

Hmmmmmm so the difference between 40 and 60 second sacrifice is roughly 1466% / second, seems worth the 50% buff duration to me (especially since buff duration will extend the duration of my other buffs, maybe even the duration of reincarnation's invincibility)


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - MiracleTrail - 2013-06-08

Wow at Lamancha.


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - ShinkuDragon - 2013-06-08

edit: extremely weird double post


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - JoeTang - 2013-06-08

60s Sacrifice wouldn't use any attack except Gungnir for 1v1, so the Lamancha table is actually pure Gungnir spam.


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - Arrol - 2013-06-08

JoeTang Wrote:60s Sacrifice wouldn't use any attack except Gungnir for 1v1, so the Lamancha table is actually pure Gungnir spam.

Sooo, what use is Lamancha? Why not call it Sacrifice+Gungir Spam?


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - TagerBustah - 2013-06-08

Well this is still shameful and nexon still has alot more work to do. They better spend thier time making paladin and bowmaster way stronger for the next patch.

Im glad KMS Paladin players are still very mad at nexon after this 2nd patch. This is a direct link to thier paladin forum, i cant understand much but even google translate makes its clear how very pissed off they still are after this second update. Anyone know korean that can browse for what their specific complaints are?
http://www.insoya.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=talkmaple_job&category=112


Lazershock Wrote:I said it for dark's pre-revamp, and i'll say it again for paladin's post-revamp. Its inexcusable for a warrior to be that low on the charts; Personally I think in terms of explorer warriors it should be darks in the middle with a balance of attack and defense, heroes with the worst defense but highest attack, and paladins with the best defense but lowest attack.... but this is TOO low for a warrior -.- I agree dat pomegranatety balancing

Except Paladins should have the highest damage of all warriors at any mob or boss that has an elemental weakness and any boss that has physical resistance. (if Elemental Void works like mages elemental reset as the skill description variable states it ignores 100% of the monsters property. Dammit it better work this way!).


JoeTang Wrote:If anyone knows anyone that can KMST to test out Paladin and Hero damage for Elemental Charge and Combo Attack to confirm they're Total Damage and Multipliers respectively, that'd be cool.

Zelkova is your man
http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=66914&title=%3Cspan%20style=%27color:%20#FF1493%27%3EMaplestory%20RED%20Class%20Changes%3C/span%3E


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - MiracleTrail - 2013-06-08

JoeTang Wrote:60s Sacrifice wouldn't use any attack except Gungnir for 1v1, so the Lamancha table is actually pure Gungnir spam.

So what would be the reason for the % difference in the two tables with 60s sacrifice on one target, wouldn't both be Gungnir Spam? And does that mean the difference between the two regular tables is one uses Impale and the other uses Lamancha while sacrifice isn't up?


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - Lazershock - 2013-06-08

TagerBustah Wrote:Except Paladins should have the highest damage of all warriors at any mob or boss that has an elemental weakness and any boss that has physical resistance. (if Elemental Void works like mages elemental reset as the skill description variable states it ignores 100% of the monsters property. Dammit it better work this way!).

I almost forgot about that; Yeah paladin's should trounce any other warrior in an elemental situation, I BELIEVE void elemental only resets elemental resistances, not physical resistance (don't quote me on that though since im not entirely sure)


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - Dark Link - 2013-06-08

ShinkuDragon Wrote:doesn't take two, doesn't take three, but it takes FOUR paladins to match the damage of a hero.

sweet jesus, if it weren't for the revive skill there would be no reason for pallies, and even then, bishops are much more helpful.

And it takes 2 - 3.5 Paladins to match a Dark Knight!

I have no hope anymore for Paladins...
It's almost as if they tried to make Paladins work like the Crusader job from Ragnarok Online, but instead it fell flat on their faces.


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - valhala556 - 2013-06-08

Paladin is a screwed up job in terms of its nitch that it has. It has amazing defense which automatically makes you want to lower its damage and speed, because its a tank. But it also is an elemental warrior (not holy >_>) so it should deal more damage to elemental monsters.

So the class is fighting itself in terms of balance. They are gonna have to scrap one of the themes or just make one subpar (preferably elements. just because of how pathetic the current system us) while the other is the main attraction of the class.


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - ShinkuDragon - 2013-06-08

@darklink; all i can say is "i've been there", same way you guys "were there" pre-BB, i had been thinking about this for a while, but a dark knight just can't seem to be good while pallies are good and vice-versa. ignoring heroes and their OPness, i think a paladin should be able to be at 8k per second compared to DrK's, and have void elemental ignore physical resistance, that way pallies would be weaker at regular bosses, but against stuff with the extra defense, they'd actually hit harder

do note that the other chart is with inner abilities though* so in raw, it takes 2 to 2.5 pallies to equal a DrK ._. but holy crap at the difference between SE and no-SE DrK, around 3k per second, quite surprised that lamancha can actually hold it's ground now. it's still weaker, but barely ([MENTION=535]JoeTang[/MENTION]; i'm assumming that's letting lamancha spin with FA, correct?)

asking the same question as miracle btw, what mechanic is played differently between the normal spoiler and the "lamancha" spoiler of the 60-sec CD sacrifice? thank you very much for the chart btw.


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - JoeTang - 2013-06-08

ShinkuDragon Wrote:@darklink; all i can say is "i've been there", same way you guys "were there" pre-BB, i had been thinking about this for a while, but a dark knight just can't seem to be good while pallies are good and vice-versa. ignoring heroes and their OPness, i think a paladin should be able to be at 8k per second compared to DrK's, and have void elemental ignore physical resistance, that way pallies would be weaker at regular bosses, but against stuff with the extra defense, they'd actually hit harder

do note that the other chart is with inner abilities though* so in raw, it takes 2 to 2.5 pallies to equal a DrK ._. but holy crap at the difference between SE and no-SE DrK, around 3k per second, quite surprised that lamancha can actually hold it's ground now. it's still weaker, but barely ([MENTION=535]JoeTang[/MENTION]; i'm assumming that's letting lamancha spin with FA, correct?)

asking the same question as miracle btw, what mechanic is played differently between the normal spoiler and the "lamancha" spoiler of the 60-sec CD sacrifice? thank you very much for the chart btw.

In the regular table, the Lamancha spoiler uses Lamancha Spear as the attacking skill when Gungnir is on cooldown, instead of Dark Impale. Since 60s Sacrifice means you can spam Gungnir infinitely, you won't use Lamancha spear because it will never be on cooldown.

All I did for the tables was change the max duration for Sacrifice to 60 instead of 40, so that's why it still says Lamancha Spear in the spoiler. From what we can see here, Lamancha Spear never actually beats Dark Impale for 1v1 during the cooldown of Gungnir, despite triggering FA more often.


Warrior %/s (KMS You & I + GMS Unleashed) - ShinkuDragon - 2013-06-08

JoeTang Wrote:In the regular table, the Lamancha spoiler uses Lamancha Spear as the attacking skill when Gungnir is on cooldown, instead of Dark Impale. Since 60s Sacrifice means you can spam Gungnir infinitely, you won't use Lamancha spear because it will never be on cooldown.

All I did for the tables was change the max duration for Sacrifice to 60 instead of 40, so that's why it still says Lamancha Spear in the spoiler. From what we can see here, Lamancha Spear never actually beats Dark Impale for 1v1 during the cooldown of Gungnir, despite triggering FA more often.

nono, you misunderstood me, what i meant (and i'm sure lovevictim too) is that in the 60 second chart (which is supposedly just gungnir spam) in the hyper tab, the 1v1 0% defense number in the spoiler called "spoiler" is different from the 1v1 0% defense number shown in the spoiler called "lamancha spear"

if both are supposed to be gungnir spam, what causes this difference in damage? i mean, what is the character doing different between those two? (again, note i'm referring to both spoilers located in the 60 second table)

edit: the numbers are:

60 second chart:
hyper>spoiler>fastest 2> 1v1 0%>14950%
hyper>lamancha>fastest 2> 1v1 0%>15157%

i know the difference is minimal, but it might show you a mistake or something in your calculations, which is why i ask