Chicocl Wrote:Maxing combo recharge is bad for some people, when you get combo barrier and you have max combo recharge, you can't use combo drain directly after using recharge.

the best build should be:

1st job max everything but booster

2nd job everything but fenrir at 10 and booster at 17.

3rd job I really don't know, final toss is pretty nice for zak when you get freeze standing maxed, rolling spin in my opinion is better than combo recharge but combo recharge is awesome for pvp with tempest (but it's terrible when maxed and combo barrier)

I'd leave combo recharge at 11, and get 4 extra points from 4th job (when maxing combo barrier) because before that you don't really use it, rolling spin can recharge your combos fast.

edit: leaving it at 11 is too risky 28% hp reduction is a lot for arans hp, so maybe i would leave it at 15 by leaving spin at 16.

FabledGumbo Wrote:I personally left rolling spin at 1 in my test build because people keep insisting that final toss is the most amazing skill ever, but even doing that I wasn't able to max booster/final charge/smart knockback. At the same time, I had my Fenrir at 20 because I thought you needed it that high for other skills. Anyway, I kinda like combo recharge if only for recasting combo drain and I imagine it's kind of important for being able to use combo barrier for clutch boss fights. Really though, I don't see how Arans are going to have enough points in second/third job, especially if you go back for booster.

Unless someone lays out some really solid reasoning as to why I shouldn't, I'm only going to put one point in final toss and leave rolling spin unmaxed so that I can max everything else.

Edit: I don't think I'm going to have any problems with skill points in 4th job because of the 5 piece set bonus from the 140 set, but assuming I couldn't do that I would also probably take points out of sudden strike and leave Maple Warrior at 29 for the sake of increasing Combo Tempest further since I really don't understand the appeal of increasing the damage of final charge/final toss. Also, are there really no consequences to leaving combo smash at 5?

JoeTang Wrote:Final Toss is an Aran's highest single target DPS skill and the 4th strongest mob DPS skill in the game. Don't max it, it's really bad.

FabledGumbo Wrote:This is pretty much the epitome of what I'm talking about regarding endless praise towards Final Toss without providing any kind of evidence as to why it's the end all be all Aran skill. Personally, I can't spam it quickly enough for it to be worthwhile because I play using a controller, but even if you're just sitting there spamming up down attack until the end of time I'm not convinced it's universally better, even on paper.

Assuming a full Overswing + Final Blow combo takes about the same amount of time as 6 final tosses or 5 rolling spins, the Overswing + Final Blow combo is doing 2546% damage unevenly distributed over 8 attacks versus final toss's 2730% damage (assuming that I calculated sudden strike's multiplier correctly) evenly distributed across 7 hits or rolling spin's 2200% damage evenly distributed across 20 hits. By those numbers alone, Final Toss does have a slight damage edge, but assuming you're hitting anywhere near the damage cap with your skills, you'd get more damage out of the Overswing + Final Blow combo because of it doing more hits in the same amount of time, and the comparison with Rolling Spin isn't even close.

Lastly, I said I didn't see the appeal of sitting around spamming Final Toss, not that it wasn't a viable means of dealing damage. I know I didn't make my Aran so I could mash myself to carpal tunnel spamming one particular skill input every quarter of a second for a slight potential increase in damage, anyway.

FabledGumbo Wrote:If anything, that contributes to my point. Overswing + Final Blow is less than 200% damage worse on paper and is better if you're hitting near max damage. Not to mention that way you're not spamming one skill in one place that only works on virtually immobile enemies. The whole rolling spin thing was just to make a point about how situationally useful any skill is and that it's stupid to say that final toss is the only thing you need.

Besides, Overswing and Final Blow are both being buffed more in Union more than Final Toss is, making it not even a contest. The only utility you could possibly expect from Final Toss is the bonus damage from knockup which doesn't work on Boss monsters, including everything in LHC.

FabledGumbo Wrote:Southperry decided to eat my reply with all the numbers crunched in it, but by my Union calculations, 6 final tosses with maxed sudden strike did 895% more damage than a Overswing + Final Blow combo, meaning that it did approximately 450% more per second unless Advanced Final Attack throws off those numbers somehow. I'm not sure how you got that 2600% best 600% worst thing.

Anyway, why's it easier to Final Toss spam on a controller? Did I miss Final Toss becoming a bindable skill? And what are you two cents on an Akyrum/Union skill build, then?

JoeTang Wrote:Did you account for critical? Final Attack? Defense? Combo Ability? Combo Judgement? Damage Over Time? Mastery?

FabledGumbo Wrote:I already said that I didn't factor in Final Attack. I really can't considering I don't know what attacks are capable of triggering it or what the restrictions are on it regarding per skill usage.

I really don't see what those other things have to do with it, though, since you generate combo count faster by doing Overswing + Final Blow than by spamming Final Toss since Final Blow got divided up into 3 hits. If anything, crit would favor Overswing + Final Blow because Final Blow autocrits. As far as I can tell everything else would be static between the two.

I'm just saying if you're going to throw numbers at me and force me to doublecheck by my own calculations, you should at least provide the source for your numbers so that I can compare rather than just say that my numbers are wrong.

At this point I'm willing to accept that Final Toss is better DPS than Overswing + Final Blow mostly because I was always willing to accept that it could do better damage on paper. What I want from you is information regarding how to make the calculations on paper effective in practice.

tl;dr Please share your skillbuild and your insight on spamming Final Toss using a controller.

FabledGumbo Wrote:last I checked macros were against the TOS and were considered a bannable offense

CommanderJinn Wrote:You do know that Nexon endorsed a gamepad that lets you set up key macros right?

Stereo Wrote:Soo... free Aran 30 books. What's the best one to grab on a level 120? (choices are Overswing 30, High Mastery 20, Freeze Standing 20, Final Blow 30, High Defense 20, Combo Tempest 30, Combo Barrier 30, AFA 30)

Stereo Wrote:Soo... free Aran 30 books. What's the best one to grab on a level 120? (choices are Overswing 30, High Mastery 20, Freeze Standing 20, Final Blow 30, High Defense 20, Combo Tempest 30, Combo Barrier 30, AFA 30)