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+--- Thread: Class Role Balance (/showthread.php?tid=7400)
Class Role Balance - Takebacker - 2009-01-19
TamilTiger1 Wrote:Not just horntail =_=
Any bosses, 1vs1 damage between the 3 magicians are very close to each other including bishops. And how many arch mages are taken to horntail because they are usefull lol? they take them because they are friends.
The elemental boost can be something that boost up their damage even if its a weapon attacker. Its like adding elemental bonus to their normal damage. You know how SE has a certain percent chance of working for other classes, maybe this one can have the same except much higher chance of activating or else no one would want it lol. Example: 50% chance of adding 20% extra damage with elemental bonus. 20% is probably too low, maybe 40% like SE.
Oh wait I think SE adds 140% even though it says 40% in the discription.
HT was the given example, but usually they're healing, so the damage difference is massive. Yeah sure, if they were attacking, the damage difference probably wouldn't be very different. I wouldn't know, lol.
Yeah, SE adds 140%.
Class Role Balance - TamilTiger1 - 2009-01-19
Takebacker Wrote:HT was the given example, but usually they're healing, so the damage difference is massive. Yeah sure, if they were attacking, the damage difference probably wouldn't be very different. I wouldn't know, lol.
Yeah, SE adds 140%.
Yes still compare arch mages with that. No one takes them to major bosses lol. So we should really be looking at solos here. Say a bishop soloing pap and an arch mage doing the same. The difference isn't going to be much. Yes the elemental wands give a little bit of a boost for arch mages, but its still only very very little.
Bishops at major bosses, who's going to say no to that? They provide heal, HS, dispell, resurrection, mob control, even bless lol. As for arch mages, there is absolutely zero reason to take them on a boss run (except if they are friends), who in their right mind would want meditation at bosses lol. They do like 10% damage of any other class using onyx apple? Thats why people here are saying there needs to be a good party buff for arch mages as there is for bishops if they are to be balanced even a little.
Class Role Balance - Kabanaw - 2009-01-19
Actually, a buff that increases damage/ gives an elemental advantage would be amazing.
The problem comes in with the fact that most of the super-powerful bosses have no elemental advantage.
Both AMs could have buffs with level 10 for both elements. at level 1 it could add 3% damage on monsters weak and makes the attack that element. The buffs wouldn't stack (as in you can't have ice and lightning, or ice and poison, etc), and at level 10 it could add 30% damage. This would be most useful at PB, where a lot of the monsters are weak to an element, and would be very useful for PB itself where physical attacks are cut in half. It would also be useful for future bosses with this ability.
Class Role Balance - Russt - 2009-01-19
Takebacker Wrote:Yeah, SE adds 140%.At a 15% rate, so it's technically 21% if you don't already have a base critical to work off of. Basically worthless if you have high %damage skills on top of that. 800%, 821%, big whoop.
Give bosses actual element attributes (and not just resistance to everything) and a buff that simply turns all your party's attacks 30% fire or whatever, on top of any attributes they already have. So CL + fire buff would make it 100% lit and 30% fire. Meaning you'd deal 1.15x to fire weak, 1.5x to lit weak, 1.65x to fire and lit weak. And... 0.35x to fire and lit resist lol.
That and a skill for Bishops that can make the boss weak to everything. Then you'd have Bishop + I/L + F/P = 1.6x damage for the rest of the party ftw.
Class Role Balance - Shidoshi - 2009-01-19
You also should be worrying as to not make the boss fights way too easy. If you give so many useful buffs around, it may end up that the bosses are no challenge anymore...
Class Role Balance - Forte - 2009-01-20
Since when did Shadowers get buffed?
They're fun but still pretty weak. At least mine was.
Class Role Balance - Kabanaw - 2009-01-20
Shidoshi Wrote:You also should be worrying as to not make the boss fights way too easy. If you give so many useful buffs around, it may end up that the bosses are no challenge anymore...
I don't think that adding a 120% damage boost (I think 20% is better than 30) will make much of a difference. At zakum, a few of the arms have elements, HT's heads each have an element, and a few of the statues at PB.
It could also have an effect like adding an elemental effect to non boss monsters, like ice can freeze for 1 second at a 20% rate, and poison for 3 seconds at a 20% rate.
This is a really fun idea. Maybe if they add a fifth job, they can fit this skill in.
Class Role Balance - Kubi - 2009-01-20
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zakum and Horntail doesn't have the ability to dispel you do they? If they did, would you think Bishops and Archmages would be useless in there?
Pink Been was designed to be a boss from the other ordinary Zakum and Horntail. So, a bishop's role in there is to not spam heal anymore due to the zombie curse like you would do in Zakum and Horntail.
But bishops can still be used for dispel and revive. They could also still use heal, but use it when the time is right where they won't kill anyone. They said Pink Been was supposed to be a more strategic boss other than another hack n' slash and survive one right?
What I'm thinking is that there are some bosses that might me meant for a specific class to solo or have the easiest time to deal with. An idea could be more bosses meant for mages; massive weapon def, lesser magic def and elementally weak, and could be a multi-part boss where their ultimates could play a bigger role.
Class Role Balance - Shippo the Fox - 2009-01-20
Horn Tail can dispel. Zakum can;t.
Class Role Balance - NoJobNoRules - 2009-01-20
Kubi, I was suggesting a similar thing with a set of 4 bosses (fighting them all at once) for CWK II a while back. They each had certain qualities about them that made certain classes best, and there were teleports to move around with.
At the same time, the major bosses should be a group effort. I definitly like the idea of messing with the stages/forms/parts of bosses as they stand. For example, certain parts of Horntail have similar WDEF/MDEF stats as you listed. Zakum's 2nd body could have a similar thing. Phases 2, 4, and 5 are all magic related, etc.
The problem is that mages are still weak for 1 on 1. THey can't deal the damage to make runs go fast enough.
*Maybe some kind of magic attack fruit is added to aPQ?
*
Class Role Balance - Cheesecake - 2009-01-20
If mages need the most fixing, then why did KMS pineapple them over by nerfing mist and ice/fire demon!??!?! WHY DAMMIT WHY
Class Role Balance - Kirov - 2009-01-20
Cheesecake Wrote:If mages need the most fixing, then why did KMS pineapple them over by nerfing mist and ice/fire demon!??!?! WHY DAMMIT WHY
Well it's not like you can poison a boss anyway. I wouldn't say that mages need the most fixing; I think that title should go to Paladins but I think they do need a role to play in boss fights. "Mob control" just isn't a good enough role for me.
Class Role Balance - Kubi - 2009-01-20
They have a lot of items that can buff up magic attack to massive heights... I've never played a mage before so forgive me if I happen to type the wrong thing. But I guess mages don't need to use those magic boosting items other than wizard elixirs because others are costly and aren't really worth it at bosses. Apples add 100 m. att too, and those nitro items from that NLC robot that adds like 1000 m. att for 5 seconds or some items along those lines...
Maybe they can buff up angel ray and chain lightning? Would it help if they gave some of the skills a faster casting rate and buff up more damage on those single target abilities?
Class Role Balance - Takebacker - 2009-01-20
Kirov Wrote:Well it's not like you can poison a boss anyway. I wouldn't say that mages need the most fixing; I think that title should go to Paladins but I think they do need a role to play in boss fights. "Mob control" just isn't a good enough role for me.
"Mob control" isn't a good role because the only time mob control is "important" is in one boss. We need more bosses like zak that can pineapple you over by mob density alone.
Class Role Balance - Roxas - 2009-01-20
[SIZE="2"]Funny how everyone lists Bowmasters stronger as Marksmen. That'll change once we have the 5 second Snipe and higher damage cap, please show me an NL who can hit 200k(jMS's damage cap, or it was 250k) every 5 seconds.[/SIZE]
Class Role Balance - Aggrovated - 2009-01-20
Roxas Wrote:[SIZE="2"]Funny how everyone lists Bowmasters stronger as Marksmen. That'll change once we have the 5 second Snipe and higher damage cap, please show me an NL who can hit 200k(jMS's damage cap, or it was 250k) every 5 seconds.[/SIZE]
Bowmasters will still be stronger. Marksmen might be stronger than Bowmasters after the changes at lower levels, but past 180, the staggering DPS of Bowmasters will come out stronger.
Class Role Balance - Dusk - 2009-01-20
Aggrovated Wrote:Bowmasters will still be stronger. Marksmen might be stronger than Bowmasters after the changes at lower levels, but past 180, the staggering DPS of Bowmasters will come out stronger.
That was true with a Snipe cooldown of 5 seconds. Now that it's been reduced to 4 (another 10k DPS for Marksmen), you would need to be comparing the two classes on a ridiculously high damage scale for Bowmasters to outdamage Marksmen by 180. Which basically means, with Apples. I think Snipe needs to be changed to do something like 4000% damage and a cap of 500k. Cooldown of 5 seconds is fine.
Class Role Balance - Alloy - 2009-01-20
Remove all skills. Now THAT'S fair play for everyone.
Class Role Balance - Cavalier - 2009-01-20
Alloy Wrote:Remove all skills. Now THAT'S fair play for everyone.
And Mages?
Class Role Balance - Dyxanije - 2009-01-20
Cavalier Wrote:And Mages?
Strength Mages, problem solved.