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+---- Thread: Now-generation consoles (/showthread.php?tid=69734)
Now-generation consoles - Polantaris - 2014-02-12
Declaimed Wrote:Not many developers have implemented the gamepad in a worthwhile way, from what I hear. Of course, I'm also open to this: https://twitter.com/delroth_/status/332179135411654656
Wii U gamepad emulation on PC. The buttons can be controlled with a 360 controller, and screentaps with the mouse. Hope it goes public eventually; I saw a nice Wii U sans-gamepad for around $120 on ebay the other day. If the gamepad is doing as poorly as people say that it is, and it truly is just a minimap/inventory accessory, then I could definitely live with just emulating one and skipping out on the few games that make heavy use of its unique capabilities (in ways other than the ones previously mentioned, as again, I can live without if all its going to be is a minimap).
Most developers aren't making much use of it, similarly to the DS's second screen most of the time. A lot of games have pointless touch features or otherwise pointless things on the second screen that aren't necessary in the least to be there. For the most part, it feels like they only use it because they have no reason not to, not because they're actually developing the games with it in mind.
Even Nintendo can't find great reasons to use it. New Super Mario 3D World, while a fun game, has very gimmicky uses for the gamepad. Overall it's not used at all, except in random levels where it controls the camera or a few platforms. Overall even Nintendo can't really find great uses for it, so why should any of us be surprised that 3rd party developers can't either?
Now-generation consoles - Kirov - 2014-02-12
Polantaris Wrote:Even Nintendo can't find great reasons to use it. New Super Mario 3D World, while a fun game, has very gimmicky uses for the gamepad. Overall it's not used at all, except in random levels where it controls the camera or a few platforms. Overall even Nintendo can't really find great uses for it, so why should any of us be surprised that 3rd party developers can't either?
It's not like 3D Land on the 3DS makes inspired use of the second screen either. Nintendo have said they are going to focus hard on making games that take advantage of the controller so I guess we will have to wait and see what they come up with. You would think it would be heavily integrated into games like the next Zelda how the motion plus was on the Wii.
Now-generation consoles - Polantaris - 2014-02-13
Kirov Wrote:It's not like 3D Land on the 3DS makes inspired use of the second screen either.That's exactly my point. DS, 3DS, and Wii U all have had the second screen. Worse still, the DS has been around for years. They should have good usage of the second screen down pat by not, but they simply don't, which implies that there's really not that much use for it.
Kirov Wrote:Nintendo have said they are going to focus hard on making games that take advantage of the controller so I guess we will have to wait and see what they come up with. You would think it would be heavily integrated into games like the next Zelda how the motion plus was on the Wii.Problem is when they start forcing it, that's when we run into bigger problems. Much like the Wii Mote's motion controls. They really pushed that and it hurt a lot of games in my opinion. I'm half expecting some terrible second screen shenanigans with Smash Brothers.
Now-generation consoles - Kirov - 2014-02-13
Polantaris Wrote:That's exactly my point. DS, 3DS, and Wii U all have had the second screen. Worse still, the DS has been around for years. They should have good usage of the second screen down pat by not, but they simply don't, which implies that there's really not that much use for it.
You don't see it on the 3DS because Nintendo ruined the 2 screen dynamic with the 3D. You have to have your eyes on the top screen all the time. The screens being different sizes doesn't really help ether. That's the one thing I hate about the 3DS a lot of the more interesting and odd games that you used to get on the DS just don't happen anymore.
Polantaris Wrote:Problem is when they start forcing it, that's when we run into bigger problems. Much like the Wii Mote's motion controls. They really pushed that and it hurt a lot of games in my opinion. I'm half expecting some terrible second screen shenanigans with Smash Brothers.
I agree I wouldn't want to see it forced into games either. I would rather it came naturally like the DS did so you end up with unique and interesting games that only the Wii U can deliver. The problem is like you said no one is doing that. So Nintendo don't really have choice. They will have to push hard and make use of the second screen to try and get others to.
Now-generation consoles - Niernen - 2014-02-13
Polantaris Wrote:That's exactly my point. DS, 3DS, and Wii U all have had the second screen. Worse still, the DS has been around for years. They should have good usage of the second screen down pat by not, but they simply don't, which implies that there's really not that much use for it.
Problem is when they start forcing it, that's when we run into bigger problems. Much like the Wii Mote's motion controls. They really pushed that and it hurt a lot of games in my opinion. I'm half expecting some terrible second screen shenanigans with Smash Brothers.
It depends on the type of game. Nintendo has been adding secondary "features" to their systems for a while now. Some games fully utilize them and make them a core aspect of the game. Other games simply do not need the secondary features. For games that come out on multiple systems, it is often not worth the extra costs to add the functionality in.
Look at two early dames of the DS, Kirby CanvasCurse and New Super Mario bros. Kirby was made around the touchscreen and would be unplayable without it. Mario did not even need the touchscreen at all. It depends on the type of game.
Now-generation consoles - Polantaris - 2014-02-13
Kirov Wrote:You don't see it on the 3DS because Nintendo ruined the 2 screen dynamic with the 3D. You have to have your eyes on the top screen all the time. The screens being different sizes doesn't really help ether. That's the one thing I hate about the 3DS a lot of the more interesting and odd games that you used to get on the DS just don't happen anymore.I wouldn't really say that the 3DS completely ruined the concept of the second screen with the 3D, but then I can't remember the last game that made extremely good use of the second screen either. The only exception is RPGs, which have more expanded stats on the bottom screen, but in reality that's not all that necessary and RPGs have been doing fine without that for years.
I agree I wouldn't want to see it forced into games either. I would rather it came naturally like the DS did so you end up with unique and interesting games that only the Wii U can deliver. The problem is like you said no one is doing that. So Nintendo don't really have choice. They will have to push hard and make use of the second screen to try and get others to.
Niernen Wrote:It depends on the type of game. Nintendo has been adding secondary "features" to their systems for a while now. Some games fully utilize them and make them a core aspect of the game. Other games simply do not need the secondary features. For games that come out on multiple systems, it is often not worth the extra costs to add the functionality in.Some games do make good use of the "extras" Nintendo puts in their systems, but they're few and far between. Far more often there are games that don't need the feature, whatever it is, being forced into the game for no reason. My earlier example, Super Mario 3D World, uses the gamepad simply because it's there, not because it's wise for gameplay, and above that giving the player the choice of controller only to revoke it later for some gimmick is the worst. "Hey, you have a Wii U Pro Controller? You can use that to play....EXCEPT RIGHT HERE! Oh and here! And over there! Were you using it? Go back to the Gamepad jerk, what's wrong with you?"
Look at two early dames of the DS, Kirby CanvasCurse and New Super Mario bros. Kirby was made around the touchscreen and would be unplayable without it. Mario did not even need the touchscreen at all. It depends on the type of game.
I always felt Metroid Prime 3, regardless of the game itself, was crippled by the forced usage of the Wiimote stuff. I found the controls more cumbersome than they needed to be and often found myself getting stuck in areas because the Nunchuck or Wiimote just didn't feel like responding to some motion-based action in time for a time-based event. It's why I never looked into getting the Trilogy, because Prime 3 was far less fun than it should have been to me because of the controls. The basic Wiimote screen stuff was fine, but when they started pushing all the controller motions to activate actions is when I stopped having as much fun as I should have.
Overall I think Nintendo's ideas are often pushed to prove that the idea wasn't unnecessary, and it ends up screwing up potentially enjoyable games. If they start pushing the gyroscope crap into Wii U games to make the Gamepad seem like it was the best idea they've ever had, then I believe that they'll end up having bigger problems than they already do.
Above that, if the Wii U has been out for a year and they only just now decided that they're going to find ways to use the Gamepad in their games, then they really shouldn't have released the Wii U when they did. What's the point of having this special pad with its own screen and such if they don't know how to use it themselves? How do they expect other developers to use it when they can't even think of good uses for it, or what it's capable of? The best usage of the Gamepad was with Nintendo Land, and after that it was over, it's like they just expected everything to work out with no effort because Nintendo Land existed.
Now-generation consoles - Lozmaster - 2014-02-13
Excuse you. Prime 1/2 are infinitely better with wiimote aiming than the gamecubes version. (Obviously 3 can't be compared because it never had a gamecube version).
Now-generation consoles - Polantaris - 2014-02-13
Lozmaster Wrote:Excuse you. Prime 1/2 are infinitely better with wiimote aiming than the gamecubes version. (Obviously 3 can't be compared because it never had a gamecube version).
In your own words:
Lozmaster Wrote:And it's ok for you to have an opinion that is wrong .
Now-generation consoles - Lozmaster - 2014-02-13
Shame I'm not wrong though.
Because, you know, being able to aim while moving vs not isn't even a choice. Same for actually having some semblance of camera control.
Now-generation consoles - Polantaris - 2014-02-13
Lozmaster Wrote:Shame I'm not wrong though.
Because, you know, being able to aim while moving vs not isn't even a choice. Same for actually having some semblance of camera control.
Except that's not even what was wrong with it, and I specifically mentioned "The basic Wiimote screen stuff was fine".
Besides, it's pretty easy to dual aim and move if they implemented it using the D-Pad and Analog on the Nunchuck, or just adding an option to use a Classic Controller, neither of which existed. You were forced to use the Wiimote-Nunchuck combo, and then forced into using the stupid gyroscope crap that was iffy on response on every controller I ever held.
Now-generation consoles - Lozmaster - 2014-02-13
Gyroscope crap?
Oh, I think I know what you mean actually, where they use it turn switches and stuff?
Yeah, that's not in the trilogy versions of prime 1/2, for obvious reasons.