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+--- Thread: The Reality of our "Content" (/showthread.php?tid=58767)
The Reality of our "Content" - Sephie - 2012-11-11
Jamesie Wrote:Your argument: Aliens and other monsters detract from other content in the game. Aliens are the most arrant offenders as the scale that they detract from is greater than the other monsters.
I know your argument, stop assuming that I don't. Do you even understand my argument?
If you know it, don't ignore it.
Put very simply, your argument is that regardless of whatever changes are done to the "best mob", everyone will flock to the next best thing.
You may know what my argument is, but you don't really address it.
Jamesie Wrote:Completely misinterpreting the entire paragraph. That paragraph is showing that no matter what you do, the "better" place detracts from other content (attempting to, at least). Why should scale be important? KFT, Omega Sector, and Aqua Road are as abandoned as all hell. There is virtually nothing you can do to make them more appealing (KFT doesn't have many good monsters (Moon Bunnies and Samiho really) and most KFT maps have poor spawn on top of a bad map; Omega Sector is too far, for the most part even with the transportation changes; water physics kill Aqua Road). So why is it the scale that makes it so bad? So you nix Aliens. People just go back to training at DGPs and MDTs until 120 forgetting about the other maps.
Typhon example is irrelevant because pre-BB most monsters' HP:EXP ratios weren't normalized. If you look at a list of monsters, virtually all monsters within the same level bracket have similar HP:EXP ratios. Pre-BB it was all up in the air (ex: Lucidas compared to other similarly leveled monsters).
The scale is a huge problem if it remains to be the best place to train in a window of 40 and arguably 60 levels. The mentality is that one does not need to leave. There are no other monster that does this other than the ones I have indicated.
Also with the problems you listed, why don't you discuss what solutions you could make for those maps to make them appealing? Another part of the thread is to change the system for the better, not only removing these mobs. You ignored the scenarios I pointed out that happen and don't agree with the changes I've suggested.
Typhons actually is relevant because the maps they spawned on was untraversable or a major hindrance to many classes despite their experience. The ones who can take advantage of their class are the ones who can thrive there, thus debunking your idea that people only like lower exp/high spawn maps. They were welcome to train at other "easier" maps but they choose to go to Typhons: that was a great idea because it gave people different options while alternatives weren't far off.
Adjusting the different ways mobs work can bring back variety yet you totally dismiss the idea.
Jamesie Wrote:Your entire argument shows the kind of person you are (if we're playing this passive-aggressive ad homenim game): You take small issues that regardless of what you do will forever impact the game, and chalk it up to be some reason why the game is so bad (or something).
I merely addressed your enjoyment at my attempt of dramatizing a problem mechanic in Maple Story. I could have scoffed at the manner of how you present your argument but I'm not that kind of person: I will, however, give back what was given to me. Also, it's not ad hominem: that would mean I'm basing your entire argument by the judgment of your character which I don't believe I have done.
Kinda funny how you're basing my entire argument and judging me. You actually described someone based on those opinions?
Jamesie Wrote:So how does removing Aliens make anything in the game better? People would just mosey back to MDTs and DGPs and you'd basically have the same paradigm we're in now. Oh wait.... but to a lesser scale. Which makes it completely okay. .....Right? (Correct answer: No. Assuming you're playing by your own argument, that is.)
There aren't just MDTs and DGPs. Just look at that chart. Also, the chart is misleading: LHC takes place starting at lvl110 but the chart for aliens can go up to lvl140.
Coolie Zombies? Werewolves? MDTs? DGPs? Spirit Vikings? Phantom Watches? Rexton? Wyvern? Sharks? Squid? Capts? Krus? Nope, Aliens will be better.
I'm only naming the ones for the level range: you actually can start Aliens starting at lvl70 like some posters have mentioned. That's the scale I'm talking about.
Jamesie Wrote:Riddle me this: If you train at MDTs instead of Aliens, how are they not viable? Why are they suddenly viable if Aliens are gone? Efficiency is the word you're looking for in that last statement. All monsters in MapleStory are viable for training (they all give exp), however some monsters are more efficient than others.If Aliens disappeared, we can say, for example, MDTs were the best mob to train at until the Anti Bot System totally weens you off of it, DGP Kentarus and Yetis are comparable. The difference between Kentarus, Yetis, Death Teddies, and Ghost Pirates is actually pretty miniscule because they all have comparable exp and comparable spawns but with differing layouts. They are in different towns and have different drops with different weaknesses to take advantage of. Add Aliens into that? 2x more exp with half the HP and attacks that tickle: Aliens would be the better decision by a land slide for 20 more levels even. No Anti Bot evasion required.
Jamesie Wrote:Typos abound. Should have said "unreasonable EXP." By segregating the monsters as you did, you imply that DGP is a monster that can't/shouldn't/wouldn't/whatever be trained on. This is especially true in the first three brackets (Skeletons, Scarecrows, and Jesters) as you can bypass those and level just as fast as someone who went there for those brackets, especially when there's a new class or 2x event.
Skeletons and Scarecrows are not on the scale of Jesters and Aliens (and Jesters are not on the scale of Aliens). However, that advantage exists for all of them and should be addressed in the similar manner Galloperas have been addressed. The argument is that alternatives are no where near as good, as I've explained.
Also, going back to what you've said earlier:
Jamesie Wrote:The reality is that there are only a handful of monsters people train on, even without the monsters on the left.
Do you happen to have a suggestion to fix this? If you acknowledge that this is a problem, do you have a solution in mind? If not, then I guess it's not really a problem and we should just deal with it.
When I made this thread, I wanted people to come forth with their own ideas of how we can fix the mobs in this game because it's a joke really. Here's a quote I like:
Locked Wrote:Revamp the entire monster system
Monsters are pathetic in this game. Training with regular monsters is completely asinine and extremely slow because it's overshadowed by things such as Lionheart Castle and Stronghold. I think LHC and SH worked out the concept of teamwork pretty well, so why not scale the experience appropriately for regular monsters in such a way that those "soloing" would get a fair share and add more areas like LHC and SH to make others happy? It'd be a win-win situation.
That's an example of a good action to take and to address the real problems we have at the moment. I want more people to give their ideas on how to make all the content meaningful. You said you didn't like Aqua Road mobility: why not introduce some sort of compensation in the same way Typhons gave it? If no one goes to Omega Sector ever, think of a quest line or make it a party play starting at lvl140 so that people can go there after LHC if LHC still existed. Maybe change how quests reward exp or make them have their own unique rewards (Evan questlines actually give you SP, making people inclined to do them).
Or you can endlessly criticize the notion of someone mentioning there's a problem in this game...
The Reality of our "Content" - Plasmablaster - 2012-11-11
I suppose another thing to this is that Nexon America puts little to no effort with their content too. Notice that mostly monsters to the left are from NA origin, and of course their HP:EXP ratio is better than most other content (and as others have said, aliens even lack death animation), and LHC also due to Party play exp being kept. Even before Big Bang, I remember Wind Raiders and maybe Storm Breakers bridged the gap between 70 - 82 for classes that otherwise would have had to be at Zombies from 50 - 82, but again, those are both NA made mosnters too, so you could say that Maple's content is poorly made.
Another dimension to this I think is the whole party/solo training type of thing. The past revamps now have made some maps more solo-oriented that there is no need or it is bad having party members around. I wished that maybe some maps would be bigger and spread out spawn for party training (sort of like Oblivion 3/4 pre-BB) and if people want/need to go solo there can be mini-dungeons for lot more select maps to give variety, and sort of do this for all monsters and maps so that everywhere could be good regardless to spice up the boring life sometimes.
The Reality of our "Content" - Polantaris - 2012-11-11
Sephie Wrote:The right is the ideal game; the left is the reality. The sad part of all of this is that I'm pretty sure everything is GMS exclusive in its own way. I'm pretty sure no other version has Rotting Skeleton / Scarecrow / Twisted Jester chimney rooms and Alien Base Corridors full of Cogs with them all giving stupid amounts of experience and no other version still has party play LHC and SH.
I'm pretty sure all of you have notice but I really have to visually present you the absurdity GMS has taken into diluting content.
The reality is that, for the most part, content exists and it has existed for the longest time. I'm not sure the gravity of it all is known by the average mapler but there is content in this game but the way things are now, the game promotes only a few areas.
The problem is that this isn't a GMS only circumstance. Even in KMS and JMS the situation is the same, although to a lesser extent. 1-120 is still "ignore all actual content, grind X." The place where GMS diverges from the other versions is at 120, and pre-120 it's simply how fast you get to 120.
At 120 and above you actually look into doing bosses and quests, but prior to that it's the same in every version. The only difference is WHAT you train on, and how fast you actually get to that diversion point.
Honestly, though, the "Ignore content" problem has existed way before these game-breaking monsters showed up. How many people remember actually doing half the quests? I remember doing some of them once, and when I spent hours doing it and got nothing comparable to my time in rewards, I never did it again. For example, Arwen's Shoe, or Blackbull's whatever that was at Lv.30 (I forget what it was, kill Curse Eyes[Or was that the Shoe and the BB thing was Boars? I don't remember anymore] to get it). The amount of monsters you needed to kill, and the reward you received for doing it gave you nothing to compare it and concluding that it was worth your time. Now that these quests are possible to do in a short amount of time...the rewards are still terrible. Some of them give like 1k EXP for it...whoopie! Guess what, you could have made 10k in the time it took you to travel back and forth between the NPCs.
Prior to 120, even in other versions, you ignore all content. You grind X, Y, or Z until you reach the point where you move on to the next monster. Sure, you kill different types...but when was the last time ANYONE, in ANY VERSION, has gone to Showa? Or Jipang? Himes? Eos Tower? Helios Tower? KFT? Omega Sector? Once everyone found out how to properly grind no one went to these places anymore...and even when you did you didn't do it for story or quests, you did it for fast EXP. When people DID go to these areas, it was simply because they thought it was the best EXP. People used to go to Trojans...but it wasn't for the Ludi Questline, it wasn't for any reason other than they gave the most EXP, just like it is now.
I was saying 120 before, but honestly, this doesn't really change until 140. ToT forces you to do the questline, so in versions without the broken LHC, you did the questline to get further. I'm not sure how many people would actually do the questline if they could simply skip to Oblivion 4. Before the recent revamp of Tot (Not sure if that's in GMS yet), the ToT questlines gave you nothing. Now they at least give useful exp (like 3m a quest), but before then they gave you 300k or less, which is absolutely nothing to a 140-165 character, so why would you do those if you didn't have to?
Honestly, MS suffers from an extreme case of "time wastage". They added a nice amount of content prior to the Future, but none of it is actually worth your time. At least the Future's questline actually gives you rewards that are useful, and ToT does now, but everything before that simply does not. You spend hours doing something, or even just 30 minutes, and the reward is 99% of the time 50% or more less than what you would have gotten if you simply grinded. That's the true issue. There's no reason to do the quests. The rewards are, to put it simply, shiit. They are simply shiit.
Now I completely agree that GMS has the worst of all the problems with these stupidly unbalanced mobs, but this isn't an issue that's just in GMS...it's all of MS. They give you no incentive to pay attention to anything in the game except flashy skills and large numbers.
The Reality of our "Content" - Curtiss - 2012-11-11
[MENTION=6823]Polantaris[/MENTION]; That is (Unfortunately) an excellent point. As some quests have not been adapted to be more relevant they've become worthless and I quite honestly do not expect people to be so fascinated with the lore that they'll do it even if the reward is crap, so I'm going to list out the good questlines:
Ariant, Magatia: Doing about 6 of the quests here at the appropriate level is pretty much a level up and one of the chain quests here leads to a good reward: Free Strong Machine Gloves per three days if you get an etc. that's reasonably easy to hunt. The quests are also largely inter-linked so it's possible to finish a number in one trip out to the desert, it opens your eyes to the uniqueness of this area (For example, drinking the oasis water and getting approval from the alchemist societies) and it tells you a lot of Maple's history (Take Magatia: The Black Mage studied there before).
Overall rating: Excellent.
Silent Crusade (Pre-revamp, we don't have the next one yet): A good one that makes you explore the areas. However, much of the lore is only available later on in the story and the effect may be lost on the player if they don't recognize the people involved in the story or the significance. I once had an argument with someone over why only Aran and Evan deserved an additional story-line based boost from the Silent Crusade and not the other Heroes; it's embarrassing to think of it.
Rating: Average.
Leafre: Here we have an interesting mixture of non-plot relevant and linked quests. Let's start with the various requests from Pam, Yaku and Kumo, I thought it was cute to do quests that tell you exactly what are they doing when tending to those eggs. Then there's finding Raul, the pre-requisite quest towards the Dragon Rider PQ and finding Moira which all expand a bit more on the story of Leafre. The quests arguably give good EXP and at least HT is now doable or people may just bring you along to finish the quest. And yes, there's a great reward for finishing off Horntail: The Spirit Egg!
Rating: Good.
Gateway to the Future: This is another great storyline. While it's mostly defeat x amounts of y it rewards you greatly and re-introduces to you the NPCs of before, now hardened and scarred. Arguably, even the defeat x amounts of y element works well here because it's a massive shock to the player that the same noobish monsters in present Henesys have now become so fearsome that they could kill you if you're careless. And that's not even including Dark Ereve into the mix; shame that part of the quest involves defeating Cygnus though.
Rating: Good (Some points docked for a nigh-impossible quest to finish for average Maplers).
I've left out ToT as I'm not even close to the finishing line (My highest level character's only 143). There's also some like Neo City that are also good but I guess everyone knows about it.
The Reality of our "Content" - Tukkun - 2012-11-11
The five Cygnus summoning things in the top right of 110~165 actually belong to the 166~200 part. That part of content isn't accessible to players below 165.
Actually, I actually kill monsters on the right mostly. I can also tell the name and also level of all monsters on the right side (except 3 or so). Yay for playing the game the right way... or maybe not.
I do, however, agree with the original post. As for solution, I think one thing they can do is giving NLC the system that makes monsters 6+ levels below you give less EXP. Also, nerf the obviously overpowered monsters, such as Alien Cogs/Miners and raise the level of Haunted House monsters. As for Stronghold, they can probably reduce the party play bonus to 20% like JMS (?) did, and LHC should be turned into single play zone.
The Reality of our "Content" - Polantaris - 2012-11-11
Tukkun Wrote:As for solution, I think one thing they can do is giving NLC the system that makes monsters 6+ levels below you give less EXP. Also, nerf the obviously overpowered monsters, such as Alien Cogs/Miners and raise the level of Haunted House monsters. As for Stronghold, they can probably reduce the party play bonus to 20% like JMS (?) did, and LHC should be turned into single play zone.
JMS only gives 20% boost per party member, correct.
Also as far as I know GMS is the only version with LHC still being a party play area, and in at least JMS they can't decide whether they want Stronghold to be one anymore. One patch half of it is, the next none of it is, then all of a sudden all of it is. They can't make up their mind. Honestly with the concept of Monster Park, that's where Party Play should have been moved to completely. It's a nice instanced area with no possibility of KSing and a lobby for gathering a group, where everyone of a specific level range gets put in the same channel. It's the perfect place for it. There's no reason for Stronghold and LHC to stay Party Play, especially when they have versions of themselves INSIDE Monster Park.
As for the solution: That's really only half the problem. As I mentioned earlier, quests are the other half. The game shouldn't be all grinding. We should care about the questlines, the story, the characters. We should have objectives, especially for a game that has over 9 years of active development. There's really no excuse that there's practically NO questline worth our time. [MENTION=10378]Curtiss[/MENTION]; mentioned a few, but seriously...9 years of content and we have three to six worthwhile questlines? The fuuck is that?
The Reality of our "Content" - Teigri - 2012-11-11
I agree with the original post. I recently decided to go out of my way NOT to fall into the left category with a new character. My old friends and guild mates are quite competitive and power leveling has been favored over enjoying lower level content in the game. I got bored and frustrated with following the "super-leveling" path mostly because I hate dealing with KSers/hackers and grinding at the same few maps over and over feels like a chore... but my friends pressured me to stick to what's fastest and suck it up.
Now I'm playing solo and loving it so far. I'm taking my time so I can experience content at an appropriate level; while it's still fun and there is some element of challenge. The problem that concerns me now is that even following the right-side of your chart with a few PQs in between, leveling still feels too fast. Many people will disagree with that but I find it difficult to "bond" with my character when I fly through the levels. The journey of my character is what makes game play meaningful for me. After spending a few weeks to get to 200 it feels like game over to me. Those 200s become mules for CWKPQ and then I'm onto a new character. If it took longer to get there I don't think it would be so easy to start over. I understand why faster leveling and advancement is appealing to casual players & people that play for damage though...
I do feel like I am being left behind by choosing a slower path. That said, I would be missing out on a whole lot more if I continued to play in a way that isn't fun for me. It would be nice if the game could be "balanced" so that everyone can get what they want out of it. At the end of the day it seems like it's up to individual players to decide how their gaming experience is going to be.
The Reality of our "Content" - Curtiss - 2012-11-11
Teigri Wrote:I agree with the original post. I recently decided to go out of my way NOT to fall into the left category with a new character. My old friends and guild mates are quite competitive and power leveling has been favored over enjoying lower level content in the game. I got bored and frustrated with following the "super-leveling" path mostly because I hate dealing with KSers/hackers and grinding at the same few maps over and over feels like a chore... but my friends pressured me to stick to what's fastest and suck it up.
Now I'm playing solo and loving it so far. I'm taking my time so I can experience content at an appropriate level; while it's still fun and there is some element of challenge. The problem that concerns me now is that even following the right-side of your chart with a few PQs in between, leveling still feels too fast. Many people will disagree with that but I find it difficult to "bond" with my character when I fly through the levels. The journey of my character is what makes game play meaningful for me. After spending a few weeks to get to 200 it feels like game over to me. Those 200s become mules for CWKPQ and then I'm onto a new character. If it took longer to get there I don't think it would be so easy to start over. I understand why faster leveling and advancement is appealing to casual players & people that play for damage though...
I do feel like I am being left behind by choosing a slower path. That said, I would be missing out on a whole lot more if I continued to play in a way that isn't fun for me. It would be nice if the game could be "balanced" so that everyone can get what they want out of it. At the end of the day it seems like it's up to individual players to decide how their gaming experience is going to be.
Well said. This is the path I'm taking right now which seems to baffle everyone around me, but eh, I don't expect people to understand why I think that if I've been playing as long as I have I'd rather do everything possible (Training, quests, PQs, bosses, merchanting, events etc.) than to just stay glued to one spot or move to a more efficient area just to stay glued to it for the next x levels. There are times when I'll do whatever I can to level up and grab whatever's closest to the chart to the left but MSEA is pretty nice in that it's really not that easy to get to level 200 unless you have massive amount of connections (I have A LOT to say about the drop rates though; they're the reason why I no longer hunt for entertainment).
Another thing I struggle to understand is the reasoning behind wanting to level up quickly. Sure, I have plans for my Phantom to not slack, but that's mostly because it's critical that I achieve my goal of getting level 70 Honour and the highest critical rate boost and I can go back to doing whatever I like once that's done. You reach level 200 and then...what? Zakum's too easy at that level, Horntail may be out if you're too weak and you can forget CHT and Empress unless you're strong and have connections. And I'd suppose SH means nothing to you since you're already maxed out. Why exhaust yourself of the possibilities to enjoy the game when you might already know this is the reality faced by the average Mapler?
And back to the questline thing. I'm not sure if Victoria has a unified one now but it'd be sweet if every class had their own story and had to help out the town in progressively more interactive ways (Think quests where you're dealing with more than one NPC and what you get depends on how you play it) and if every region had a unified quest line that gives you a neat award at the end, something special that doesn't have to be a strong item but is something you can be proud of. That's why I like the Heroes (Short of Mercedes' quest line, what was that?), it's given me more appreciation of who they are and I can think of them as more than 'OP damage dealers'.
The Reality of our "Content" - Bomber - 2012-11-11
By the way, Scarecrows give terrible experience..
The Reality of our "Content" - PirateIzzy - 2012-11-11
With the addition of the Orbis, Sleepywood, Ludibrium, and Omega Sector revamps, those areas actually became worth something, especially Omega Sector. I did the quests on a mule, and I got a good amount of experience for each quest, even the ones where you just travel from NPC to NPC.
The Reality of our "Content" - Sephie - 2012-11-11
[MENTION=6823]Polantaris[/MENTION]; Although that may be, your post agrees with the notion that a lot of the content isn't worthwhile.
Again, I have to point out that the removal of a few mobs isn't the only thing that needs to be done. It helps greatly but it puts us on par with other regions.
In the spirit of this discussion, what possible solutions could you implement to alleviate these problems?
For example, if quests weren't worthwhile to do, what could entice a player to do those quests?
Back when Maple started out, the quests for the most part were extremely worthwhile. A good example was Jane in Lith where if you completed her questline, you got to have a cheap potion seller which at the time was a huge boon because potions cost 90% of the mesos you picked up (unless you were like a cleric or something). The Ancient Book continues to be a questline people complete because it is the only way to get All Cures, Magic Rocks, and Summon Stones in bulk. The CWK questline was worth doing to skip the JQ to the keep. Ellin Forest was worthwhile because the end of the quest chain lets you fight Ephenia and get her ring.
Also you're kind of contradicting yourself by saying quests aren't worth while but at the same time saying everyone is forced to do ToT quests if they want to advance. That's actually a unique reward (fighting PB) that everyone likes and wants. You aren't forced because you don't have to go to ToT or fight PB if to don't want to.
What I feel is that Nexon overshadows their own content. The way quests are done today, they are detracted by a superior solution. The fall of most quests is probably attributed to other factors such as potential, shitty economy, and superior sources of exp and rewards for your time.
The Reality of our "Content" - mithi9 - 2012-11-11
Jedward Wrote:Reality: As only street has said, not everyone spends 100% of their time at those monsters.
At low levels, many, many characters simply do their storyline quests. I think you forget that Flaming Golems and Mixed Golems are good experience, as are Cool Jellyfish.
2nd job: The old standbys are still there (CDs, Kitties, Luster Pixies) and are being trained at! I was training my 50 Fighter at Lusters while looking for beauty coupons, and I ran into characters everywhere. Not to mention the theme dungeons: Mushroom Kingdom, Kerning Square and even Chryse are still getting hits. The fact that Xerxes and Pepe can be soloed now helps with this, because that means afforadble, easy-to-get glasses and weapons.
3rd job: Yes. I do admit that I spent quite an amount of time in Aliens. But you know what exists? MONSTER PARK. It's only for 35 levels in 3rd (and I will say that I think Nexon made a mistake making that gap, although the only solution would really be making a fourth monster park portal), but it's a good 35 levels. By farming tickets while grinding you can spend a significant amount of time there. And if you can solo the park well enough, then that gives you a fountain of equipment (that come pre-potentialed 100% of the time) and experience. Not to mention it's a party play zone. Besides that there are also Dual Ghost Pirates and Gigantic Spirit Vikings, Master Death Teddies and Grims, Violent Boars (heck, they made Ellin Forest a theme dungeon), etc. There's still some variation here.
4th job: LHC, sure. Yeah. Neo City says hi? Dragon Turtles and Cornians? LHC is not the best place to be. In fact, if you can't get a party together you might as well not go to LHC at all, which has been the situation for me sometimes. And again, Monster Park exists after 135, which is a great place that has some diversity to it. There are even parks all the way up to 200.
High-end 4th job: I agree with you here. Besides the 165+ parks, bossing and Future Ereve, there really isn't much. I do keep wishing they would make more content for this level range.
tl;dr: I'm not disagreeing with you. I think that the monsters you listed are overpowered, and I'm also guilty of spending a significant amount of time there. I just think that you need to widen your view and lower your expectations a bit. Not everyone in MapleStory plays like an optimist would, which is what you seem to be targeting here.
KoL doesn't really have an end-game (when you have all your skills and all the shinies, which is impossible?) so I wouldn't really be able to dump it into this discussion. KoL is more about tricks to lessening time spent at, or outright skipping zones. Although that's about to change.
Then there are the world events that seem to just stop everyone in their tracks, because there are lots of cool stuff to do and get.
i agree
i dont even go to jesters cuz its always full
and i hate the map cuz its ugly
The Reality of our "Content" - Polantaris - 2012-11-11
Sephie Wrote:In the spirit of this discussion, what possible solutions could you implement to alleviate these problems?
Polantaris Wrote:Also as far as I know GMS is the only version with LHC still being a party play area, and in at least JMS they can't decide whether they want Stronghold to be one anymore. One patch half of it is, the next none of it is, then all of a sudden all of it is. They can't make up their mind. Honestly with the concept of Monster Park, that's where Party Play should have been moved to completely. It's a nice instanced area with no possibility of KSing and a lobby for gathering a group, where everyone of a specific level range gets put in the same channel. It's the perfect place for it. There's no reason for Stronghold and LHC to stay Party Play, especially when they have versions of themselves INSIDE Monster Park.
As for the solution: That's really only half the problem. As I mentioned earlier, quests are the other half. The game shouldn't be all grinding. We should care about the questlines, the story, the characters. We should have objectives, especially for a game that has over 9 years of active development. There's really no excuse that there's practically NO questline worth our time. [MENTION=10378]Curtiss[/MENTION]; mentioned a few, but seriously...9 years of content and we have three to six worthwhile questlines? The fuuck is that?
Honestly, just giving players a reason to do things other than grind to power yourself up. In the end, when the max level is 200, people will always do what gets them to 200 faster. I've played a few games that decently do a system of quests being in bulk and monster EXP being crap, to force you to do questlines. That's not a perfect solution, but it certainly is far better than what we have now. I'd much rather do questlines than grind endlessly, but sadly there's really nothing to make that worthy.
Another thing I would do is make events in themselves questlines. Instead of having the same 15 minute dailies for events, having full fledged events where you do multiple things, and have reasons to care about event areas for more than half a day would do wonders. Right now an event comes out, and it's something you do for 15 minutes a day then stop because of either daily limits (like MS HS), or simply finish the entire event in 30 minutes and never touch it again. Both of those things are extremely awful. Heck, some of these events force you to grind, because they only give you drops from monsters your level and special mobs like the ones from MP don't drop said event item.
One more thing: Something they did back when Big Bang launched, but for some reason abandoned in the newer releases was that they made everything of the same level give the same EXP. A lot of people I know complained about this but this is actually one of the best ways to alleviate this problem. Sure, when you get down to it in the terms of pure grinding, some mobs were still way better due to their maps, however if you had quests to do, and they were actually rewarding, then you would have reasons to go to other areas than the "map with the best spawn."
Sure, I keep talking about quests, and there are other things they could do, but honestly, quests are the #1 issue. Every game has them, and in most successful games they are a pivotal part of gameplay. Heck, GW2, a game I've been playing a lot of recently, is essentially made by the unique way the quests are done in the PvE content. I don't ever expect MS to adopt such a system, expecting that is beyond foolish, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. The point I'm trying to make is that the game provides a unique experience by the way it implemented it's quests. MS doesn't even really have quests(that you would go out of your way to do), so it cannot even begin to compete in any way. At the very least giving us something to do that would compare to if we just simply grinded is the main issue that needs to be addressed.
The Reality of our "Content" - Soph - 2012-11-11
Good post. I've been thinking about this recently as well. Beginning to think this is part of the reason the game can feel boring at times, even if there is tons of content (which actually was useful years ago) it just feels pointless to go there due to these mobs that have ridiculous hp:exp ratios and lower damage/level.
They really should just do what they did at big bang and the old WRs and rebalance everything again. Even if the quests are still bad at least it would make players explore more content :c. LHC is probably one of the biggest offender out of all of these seeing as once you hit 4th job you should be exploring higher level areas and fighting some bosses. Aliens I find stupid too. Was apalled to come back and find out a lvl 90 mob had the same experience as skelegons.
One of the worst things about this is with that drop botting mechanic that removes drops from low monsters, you can't even go and visit the areas to hunt for items. This is probably what kills it for me.
The Reality of our "Content" - Storm - 2012-11-11
When I made my new Pirate, I trained at all of the old maps I used to go to when I had my Dark Knight (Golems, Stumps, Slimes, etc.) just for the nostalgic feeling it gave me. I still trained on the monsters on the left side, but if I had an alternative map and LHC wasn't for me, I would stick to Monster Park. Not only is the experience excellent, it's also great to go to for those who like to solo like myself. I haven't trained with anyone in years so Monster Park and other maps like it would fit me well.
What is understood is that people will flock to maps that get them the fastest results and the monsters on the left are a few of the monsters that give the best EXP output, but that doesn't mean that they are forced to train on them. For Jesters, I would never suggest to anyone that they train in the Chimney map simply because hackers still roam there and is too large for some classes to handle on their own. I'd direct them to a smaller map that is more private for them and is flat. Everyone has their own preferences.
The Reality of our "Content" - Polantaris - 2012-11-12
Monster Park is a nice addition, and it keeps your mind slightly more active than the traditional grind, but honestly MP is not diverse enough. Putting the fact that there's not enough quests aside (because I've mentioned them more than enough), even for MP, there's the issue of how linear it is. It would be interesting if there were tasks inside of the MP areas and also multiple routes to go. Perhaps rewards other than just coins for badges as well. MP is a good addition, I just think it could be fleshed out a little more. Unfortunately in the end it's not much different from the traditional grind.
Of course there's also the part I mentioned earlier where they need to get rid of the normal areas being Party Play like LHC and Stronghold simply because MP exists. That's why MP is there, it's designed for perfect Party Play while LHC and Stronghold are not.