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+--- Thread: Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 (/showthread.php?tid=45638)
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - Locked - 2011-08-09
octopusprime Wrote:Why are you persisiting in this argument. You're just wrong. You acknowledge the only relevant evidence that is pretty clear on why and how you are wrong but seemingly do not care. There is no logic in that. You're confusing your idea of "what should be" with reality. It doesn't make you right. It just makes you crazy.
This is the kind of argument I hate.
"You're wrong, I'm right. End of discussion"
Completely pointless, it doesn't give you any valid point in comparison to him. I'm pretty sure what Flonne is saying is correct.
Not that it even matters in the first place. The company can do whatever the hell it pleases, no one will give a shit.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - octopusprime - 2011-08-09
Locked Wrote:Completely pointless, it doesn't give you any valid point in comparison to him. I'm pretty sure what Flonne is saying is correct.
There is no valid point. He's arguing with the way things are as compared to how he feels they should be. It's like someone telling me the sun should be less bright. Nexon does not have an obligation. There is no discussion. If he wanted to argue the possible directions nexon could take or possible re configurations of their methods he should make a thread about it.
There is no might hold up in a legal situation. He's making an argument out of something where there is literally no room for real argumentation. The only person nexon services by not shafting you as a consumer is themselves so they can get more money. Nothing is ever done by them out of obligation to you or I. They have none. It is business practicality. If you want to see one party as being in debt to the other in the consumer-service provider relationship, fine go for it. If you want to publicly insist it's how things actually are, I reserve the right to tell you you're wrong on a fundamental level that I don't think my arguing with you can reach.
Was that reply sufficiently long, Locked? Because it's the length of a post that determines the validity of the rationale right?
Flonne Wrote:I don't really care if you ever accept you are wrong and I am right, because I am not a person with low self confidence that feels the need to gain the support of others; instead, I go out, find facts and form opinions for myself, then I save them for when the subject arises provide them with ample evidence supporting my opinion, and if others do not agree, so be it.
That's all well and good, but you have to realize that every "fact" you find is not relevant to every or any given situation.
I'm not going to get into anything in regards to legality and how/if it applies to nexon. You've already made the determination in your mind that if it exists at all that it must naturally apply to this situation because it is about "business." While that may be something that seems like sound reasoning from a logical perspective, it is not the way it works. Business law does not function that way. I don't have the time or energy to take you through 4 credit hours of business law. Yeah you found a "fact." You then assumed this fact was relevant and then decided that you must be right because of it.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - Locked - 2011-08-09
octopusprime Wrote:There is no valid point. He's arguing with the way things are as compared to how he feels they should be. It's like someone telling me the sun should be less bright. Nexon does not have an obligation. There is no discussion. If he wanted to argue the possible directions nexon could take or possible re configurations of their methods he should make a thread about it.
No. He's saying how things are in comparison to how they're supposed to be by law.
Quote:There is no might hold up in a legal situation. He's making an argument out of something where there is literally no room for real argumentation. The only person nexon services by not shafting you as a consumer is themselves so they can get more money. Nothing is ever done by them out of obligation to you or I. They have none. It is business practicality. If you want to see one party as being in debt to the other in the consumer-service provider relationship, fine go for it. If you want to publicly insist it's how things actually are, I reserve the right to tell you you're wrong on a fundamental level that I don't think my arguing with you can reach.
The concept is rather simple, if someone is able to pay for a service then they have the right to customer service in the United States, there's no argument about it. Just because the service is free at the start doesn't mean that it disables all forms of customer satisfaction and their obligation of keeping said service open. People are paying for this and it isn't run by donations.
Quote:Was that reply sufficiently long, Locked? Because it's the length of a post that determines the validity of the rationale right?
When the hell did I state that the length of a post determines its validity? Seriously, stop shoving words into my mouth and read the damn post.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - street - 2011-08-09
I understand where octo is coming from. Nexon is not obligated to do anything. They can set the standards on what is satisfactory for their game.
Are we paying nexon to use their servers? Last time i check we are only paying for extra perks in the game.
How are you all not pineappleing satisfied with playing maple? Cause its not meeting your standards? Maple will never be able to meet anyone standards. Its the same for every game no one will ever be satisfied.
You guys argue about the most pointless things i swear. Nothing is going to change in the end so why even bother argue about it? You can play the freaking game just fine! So what, it was down for a few hours it is up now. Why dont you play for 24 hours a day to make up for lost time. Why do you need to get compensation for every single thing? Before nexon hardly give any compensation when the game was down. You guys are spoiled thats the dam problem. If nexon only give a notice saying "sorry about that" all the times the game was down and never introduced giving x2,maplepoints, etc you all would be complaining about the missing sorry notice from nexon.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - octopusprime - 2011-08-09
Locked Wrote:supposed to be by law.
wrong. They are as they are supposed to be. Nexon operates to the legal standards set upon them.
Quote:The concept is rather simple, if someone is able to pay for a service then they have the right to customer service in the United States, there's no argument about it.
Until they make a contractual agreement surrendering those rights. Cash shop style revenue generation isn't exactly typical well established or in a legally clear place. Contracts are.
Quote:Just because the service is free at the start doesn't mean that it disables all forms of customer satisfaction and their obligation of keeping said service open. People are paying for this and it isn't run by donations.
Actually since you agree to own nothing, it basically is.
Quote:When the hell did I state that the length of a post determines its validity? Seriously, stop shoving words into my mouth and read the damn post.
>implying i've done this to you before.
>implying i didn't read your post.
>continuing to imply that "no, that isn't the way things actually are" is not a valid response to someone who is just mistaken about something on a fundamental level.
Legally speaking, nexon owes you nothing. You "rent" from them rather than buy. I won't even get into the obvious legal complexities that come with a virtual currency that stands freely exchangeable with real world money.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - Locked - 2011-08-09
Let's be clear here, quite frankly I do not care about the way gMS runs its sh`it. The point is that Federal Law > ToS, and it'll always be that. If the federal law tells you that you can't kill yet your state law that you agreed to also says you can and you are able to murder, does it make it right?
Disregarding the owing statement because it has no correlation to the topic of handling money. You're still handling money and it's in the form of purchase no donation, completely different things. Rent or not.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - octopusprime - 2011-08-09
Locked Wrote:Let's be clear here, quite frankly I do not care about the way gMS runs its sh`it. The point is that Federal Law > ToS, and it'll always be that. If the federal law tells you that you can't kill yet your state law that you agreed to also says you can and you are able to murder, does it make it right?
Disregarding the owing statement because it has no correlation to the topic of handling money. You're still handling money and it's in the form of purchase no donation, completely different things. Rent or not.
The federal law in question is only relevant when it applies.
Existing =/= applicable.
Like i said, that is not how business law works. Don't take my word for it, study it for yourself in college.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - Locked - 2011-08-09
octopusprime Wrote:The federal law in question is only relevant when it applies.
Existing =/= applicable.
Like i said, that is not how business law works. Don't take my word for it, study it for yourself in college.
Already graduated.
Couldn't care less.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - octopusprime - 2011-08-09
Locked Wrote:Already graduated.
Couldn't care less.
Just enough to argue with people blindly.
Always a good amount of care.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - Locked - 2011-08-09
octopusprime Wrote:Just enough to argue with people blindly.
Always a good amount of care.
Incorrect.
I don't care about how Nexon runs their things, I just know that the federal law is over every kind of law. I just know you're stubborn and would never say so. So quite frankly, I don't care.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - octopusprime - 2011-08-09
Locked Wrote:federal law is over every kind of law.
Just wanted to have this forever.
And yes I am stubborn. Especially against people spouting nonsense. I consider that kind of stubbornness a borderline virtue. If you think persisting in being incorrect and showing your ignorance is a good way to prove me wrong, you go for it. Please continue to "not care" and "argue" at the same time. That's the behavior of a person confident in their reasoning and knowledge. Never exhibited in trolls either. wait a second.
As long as there are people crying "boo-hoo" nexon is fringing on my "rights" (terrible understand of legal rights usually goes hand in hand with this by the way, which is in itself rather aggravating to me) I'll be there to tell them they are being retarded. Reading a piece of legal documentation does not a lawyer make.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - octopusprime - 2011-08-09
And at the topic in general. For those of you who think posting blue shi't is what makes you correct yet are incapable of using google, have f'ucking at it.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - Locked - 2011-08-09
octopusprime Wrote:Just wanted to have this forever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_Clause
Quite the cocky one, aren't you.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - Flonne - 2011-08-09
octopusprime Wrote:...4 credit hours of business law...
Not to be a stickler, but come on, really? lol.
Cash Shop and MTS Unscheduled Maintenance - 08.08.2011 - octopusprime - 2011-08-09
Flonne Wrote:Not to be a stickler, but come on, really? lol.
That's an interesting response.
Locked Wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_Clause
Quite the cocky one, aren't you.
That's an interesting response.
EDIT: Lol, such a classy end to this thread. Locked evidentally can't be fucked with clicking the link relevant to what he just believes is a relevant federal law, and Flonne got away with bullshitting that there was one.
Nice.