Locked Wrote:mfw two criticals are always the same damage.

Veneni Wrote:I call BS. How can you predict a random number generator unless you have a supercomputer with advanced informatics on it, and even then.

Fenne Wrote:What I originally said is not unknown amongst other people in the community. Anyone with a computer science degree and some understanding of how number and variable generation is done for online gaming could take a look at maplestory and tell you the number generation is sloppy. And when things are sloppy, you can learn to recognize patterns, and manipulate them. Some are more easily recognized than others, and you can't always manipulate it to your favor, but any piece of info is better than nothing. How many times have you seen multiple rare gach items smega'd within several seconds of each other? The first time I saw someone pull 3 bloody rose chairs out of gach within 15 seconds of the first one I thought I was going nuts. You think they hit a .0001% chance of success 3 times in a row? The reality is that the RNG "seed" was positive and there was an artificially high chance of success for those X number of seconds. More examples we have all seen are: cubing something to epic, and the very next cube it going unique, multiple equips dropping within seconds of each other back in the day when equips were rare, multiple scrolls dropping or 30%'s working when used, chaos giving or taking away the same amount when used back to back, several of the same 'family' of scrolls coming out of gach in a row. These are most likely not lucky streaks, but multiple hits from the same positive RNG "seed" bleeding over from one to the next.

Don't believe me or say I'm full of pomegranate or whatever, but no one thought blackjack could be rigged until they started counting cards. A positive seed isn't going to make your chances of success 100%, but it can artificially inflate your chance of success beyond what the standard hard-coded odds are. The converse is also true. The seed can be negative, and it can actually hurt your chances of success. How many people blew up tons of equips with 90% pot scrolls, fury cubed something 100 times out of anger and never saw a rare change to epic, or an epic to unique, used a ton of scrolls and none of them worked, or gached and got multiple HP and def scrolls in a row? You might not have been 'unlucky', you might have been dealing with a deflated chance of success which hurt your chances before you could even begin.

I developed a set of rules when cubing about a year ago, (and it also could be applied to scrolling and gaching as well) and stuck to them vehemently. I turned basically what ended up being three complete sets of gear from rare to unique over the course of 6 months, without spending an arseload of money on cubes. I know people don't all have that amount of success, and I know I wasn't just 'lucky'. I stuck to my rules and did my best to identify the seed relativity and things generally turned out for the better. From my personal experience, the RNG seed doesn't jump around within a matter of seconds randomly - positive, normal, negative, negative, normal, negative, positive, normal, normal, etc; it comes and goes in waves and the seed can stay positive or negative for several seconds at a time. We will never know just how long the seed stays in its current state, it could only be 3 seconds, it could be 8, a negative seed could last for 40 minutes...but if you can learn to recognize when the seed is positive, and when it is negative, you can save yourself actual money. Even if you can't manipulate it to your success, its bloody brilliant to know when not to do something.

Blades4hire Wrote:Hope I'm not being pushy here, but can you please list some of these rules?
I'm sure it would help people out :p

Fenne Wrote:What I originally said is not unknown amongst other people in the community. Anyone with a computer science degree and some understanding of how number and variable generation is done for online gaming could take a look at maplestory and tell you the number generation is sloppy. And when things are sloppy, you can learn to recognize patterns, and manipulate them. Some are more easily recognized than others, and you can't always manipulate it to your favor, but any piece of info is better than nothing. How many times have you seen multiple rare gach items smega'd within several seconds of each other? The first time I saw someone pull 3 bloody rose chairs out of gach within 15 seconds of the first one I thought I was going nuts. You think they hit a .0001% chance of success 3 times in a row? The reality is that the RNG "seed" was positive and there was an artificially high chance of success for those X number of seconds. More examples we have all seen are: cubing something to epic, and the very next cube it going unique, multiple equips dropping within seconds of each other back in the day when equips were rare, multiple scrolls dropping or 30%'s working when used, chaos giving or taking away the same amount when used back to back, several of the same 'family' of scrolls coming out of gach in a row. These are most likely not lucky streaks, but multiple hits from the same positive RNG "seed" bleeding over from one to the next.

Don't believe me or say I'm full of pomegranate or whatever, but no one thought blackjack could be rigged until they started counting cards. A positive seed isn't going to make your chances of success 100%, but it can artificially inflate your chance of success beyond what the standard hard-coded odds are. The converse is also true. The seed can be negative, and it can actually hurt your chances of success. How many people blew up tons of equips with 90% pot scrolls, fury cubed something 100 times out of anger and never saw a rare change to epic, or an epic to unique, used a ton of scrolls and none of them worked, or gached and got multiple HP and def scrolls in a row? You might not have been 'unlucky', you might have been dealing with a deflated chance of success which hurt your chances before you could even begin.

I developed a set of rules when cubing about a year ago, (and it also could be applied to scrolling and gaching as well) and stuck to them vehemently. I turned basically what ended up being three complete sets of gear from rare to unique over the course of 6 months, without spending an arseload of money on cubes. I know people don't all have that amount of success, and I know I wasn't just 'lucky'. I stuck to my rules and did my best to identify the seed relativity and things generally turned out for the better. From my personal experience, the RNG seed doesn't jump around within a matter of seconds randomly - positive, normal, negative, negative, normal, negative, positive, normal, normal, etc; it comes and goes in waves and the seed can stay positive or negative for several seconds at a time. We will never know just how long the seed stays in its current state, it could only be 3 seconds, it could be 8, a negative seed could last for 40 minutes...but if you can learn to recognize when the seed is positive, and when it is negative, you can save yourself actual money. Even if you can't manipulate it to your success, its bloody brilliant to know when not to do something.

CarrionCrow Wrote:I think I'll have to go with Veneni on this one.

octopusprime Wrote:He's mistaking streaks in true randomness for poor simulated randomness.

Okiesmokie Wrote:There is no such thing as true randomness.

Locked Wrote:MAPLESTORY'S RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR SUCKS.

octopusprime Wrote:Pretty sure he is actually wrong. He's mistaking streaks in true randomness for poor simulated randomness.

Do you really find the likelihood of maplestory just being so truly random more likely than just being poorly randomized?

Not to mention venne is exaggerating the functionality people are suggesting that this has or could have to inflate his own argument?

TBH i'm fairly certain maple employs either two many RNGs or only one. The too many theory comes from the thought that some of them are poorly suited for the task at hand or sloppy. The only one theory comes from the possibility that it's just the same one altered by varying levels of compression and creating these notable trends, or causing them to be noticeably off in sections due to clumping.

While yes, people tend to see in patterns. Some patterns are also there. This is maplestory, not pi after all.

I'm going to stick with my belief that the game is poorly randomized as opposed to being so well randomized that it seems like it isn't.

Okiesmokie Wrote:There is no such thing as true randomness.

Veneni Wrote:That's more like a programming error in how the skills work than it is in the RNG.

Quote:The skill probably asks for one too few random numbers so it takes the first one agian, or something. Testing the RNG would be done by logging your average damage over small time intervals. If the average is like a periodic high - low - high - low etc, something is wrong.

Venne Wrote:I do think the RNG for maplestory is good enough. There are thousands of players are logged in at the same moment, requireing multiple random numbers every second. That would probably mean the RNG doesn't generate the random numbers itself, that would require too much computing power. It will work with a very, very long list of random numbers. Which is good enough because in order to crack the list (if you have the whole list you could determine "hot spots" like the 999999999 in Pi and make all scrolls pass) you would need to know all the numbers given to all the players currently online, which is impossible to do unless you hack every player currently online, or nexon's servers. Also, MS probably has like a hundred RNG's working next to each other, making it "even more random".

Venne Wrote:PS: Lists are "perfectly" random, because they can be tested thouroughly beforehand.

Venne Wrote:PPS: Also, if the game really had poor RNG, wouldn't there allready be a 100% scrollrate hack by now?

Raul Wrote:Okay, this is broken. This is from a couple weeks ago. Also, the crit situation is getting really weird, as demonstrated here as well.
-snip-
Also, my venom damage is literally ALWAYS the same thing. Every single time.