Eosian Wrote:Elestaves were created before there were any non-AM stave wielders by JMS, not KMS, so trying to relate them to the whole story when that story was being made up by an entirely different group of people who had details the original authors had no way to know about is silly.

Eosian Wrote:Elestaves were created before there were any non-AM stave wielders by JMS, not KMS, so trying to relate them to the whole story when that story was being made up by an entirely different group of people who had details the original authors had no way to know about is silly.

Chilly Wrote:I was correct on the outcome of this discussion and the explanations that would be used as evidence. Nothing new, it is done, lest effektian stubbornness continue. Just one more assumption...

Let us only hope they work. End.

Chilly Wrote:I was correct on the outcome of this discussion and the explanations that would be used as evidence. Nothing new, it is done, lest effektian stubbornness continue. Just one more assumption...

Let us only hope they work. End.

Luffy Wrote:I understand the premise you are trying to make. But remember that this premise goes both ways. So you can't prove to me that the original 'authors' intended the Elestaves to be used by only for A/M's and not used by any future stave wielding classes.

Btw, I don't didn't mention anything about KMS.

Eosian Wrote:Elemental Wands & Staves came from JMS.
Battle Mages came from KMS.
You can not relate the two and declare them as having ever been intended to interoperate. They were completely separate concepts.
I can prove to you the original authors only intended Elestaves to work for AM's because AMs were the only thing the original authors knew and they specifically added penalties to prevent the only other magic wielding class at the time, bishops, from using them.

Your argument isn't even chicken & egg, it's avocado and aardvark. They were created for the classes that existed at the time they were created. Period.
Unless you have specific proof to the contrary no one has to prove that they didn't have exceptional psychic powers that foresaw the battlemage years before Aran, Evan or even Cygnus existed to hint at the possibility of new classes.

yo72 Wrote:THIS Estaffs were never made to make AMs the BEST class in DPS, but to turn them from a laughable excuse of a class into something more like a brute hitting the dmg cap to make it seem as if they were useful

Eosian Wrote:And this is relevant to the discussion is how?
AM's are not the best in DPS, they wouldn't be even if they still had the full 125% boost so you appear to just be posting randomly here for the thrill of seeing your own name.

Luffy Wrote:I was actually hoping that I made it apparent that I understood that most A/M's skills do not use the fast speed from the Staff. But like you said, explosion still does factor the speed into account. This is why I emphasized over and over again (and used normal attack as an example because I knew that the fast weapon speed did not affect most A/M skills) that no matter how minute the DPM change would be from the fast speed of elestaves, that it still affects them. I am not comparing BaM's and AM's. You still fail to see my motives. I am not arguing for any one side.

I am just asking that people change their rhetoric when discussing such topics.

I'm pretty sure that elestaves being fast was not intended only for AM's; like you said, most of their skills are unaffected by the weapon speed. So why have a fast staff for classes that don't take advantage of it. If this was really intended only for AM's, Nexon would have created a restriction for BaM's from using it. But we are a mage class after all, and not allowing us to equip a staff is ridiculous.

OP or not, each class serve different purposes. There are attackers, and there are support classes. What purpose BaM's serve is a different issue so let's not delve into that. DPM is not the only factor as to deciding if classes are balanced or not.

yo72 Wrote:Was using the brute example when the dmg cap was 100k

Eosian Wrote:Even then they weren't best DPS because they could only hit max with their ultimates which were once every 3 seconds at best and used massive MP to do it.
100K every 3 seconds was far from "best" so you're still moot and still off topic.

IImaplers Wrote:I'm still trying to understand how E-weapon would work after this patch (Hime confused the hell out of everyone):

So for instance if an F/P mage does 100K damage currently with paralyze against a neutral monster with an E-wand 6, with this new change, they'll be doing 110k instead? Just throwing hypothetical numbers out there, but is that how it works?

Question 2: Do the new bonuses now effect DoT (From a post one basil it said that ele comp damage would not be effected by bonuses, but what about, say, it's DoT)?

Question 3: So if a Bishop does 100K with Angel Ray on a neutral monster, due to this new restriction, they'd be doing 75K instead?

Question 4: What about Elemental Decrease? If I do 150K damage on a poison-weak monster with ele wand 6. Then say I use Elemental Decrease. That damage would now be 110K (because of the bonus), not 100k right?

-Just things which need to be clarified. Thanks for answering to whoever does

Thorr Wrote:1) yes
2) no
3) yes
4) Ele reset is applied after damage is calced. EWand bonuses apply then the ele decrease makes the whole thing neutral after.

Eosian Wrote:Elemental Wands & Staves came from JMS.
Battle Mages came from KMS.
You can not relate the two and declare them as having ever been intended to interoperate. They were completely separate concepts.
I can prove to you the original authors only intended Elestaves to work for AM's because AMs were the only thing the original authors knew and they specifically added penalties to prevent the only other magic wielding class at the time, bishops, from using them.

Your argument isn't even chicken & egg, it's avocado and aardvark. They were created for the classes that existed at the time they were created. Period.
Unless you have specific proof to the contrary no one has to prove that they didn't have exceptional psychic powers that foresaw the battlemage years before Aran, Evan or even Cygnus existed to hint at the possibility of new classes.