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+--- Thread: I was hunting Headless Horseman today and this happened D= (/showthread.php?tid=2777)
I was hunting Headless Horseman today and this happened D= - Heidi - 2008-10-11
Hmmmm yeah, I actually have to agree with that. It does get a little tricky when it comes to lag. Both people see that they got there first, so both people got there first.
I guess that's where it is best to just give each other the benefit of the doubt, both just kill it, and just whoever does the most damage wins the drops. I probably yelled at you anyway though
Maybe with some of the larger bosses though, it's better to try and work it out, though that's tricky.
Lag is an annoying thing!!!
I was hunting Headless Horseman today and this happened D= - Alloy - 2008-10-11
About that FFA excuse people have to be able to KS:
it's simply manners! LET'S PUT AN EXAMPLE!
Real life is free for all! THEREFORE!
-I can poke anyone that passes by. It's made possible, so there's nothing wrong with it!
-I can lick the back of my shoe. It's possible, so I can do it freely! hooray!
-I can grab that cake from that drawer, and run with it, and then eat it! Since it's possible, there's nothing wrong with it!
-I can stab someone to death, and therefore, I can do it!
Yes, but in real life you get to prison!
I wonder why there's a ToA in Maple then, and why one of the "not-to-do stuff" is KSing...
I was hunting Headless Horseman today and this happened D= - IsaacGS - 2008-10-11
Alloy Wrote:About that FFA excuse people have to be able to KS:I have a much better example.
it's simply manners! LET'S PUT AN EXAMPLE!
Real life is free for all! THEREFORE!
-I can poke anyone that passes by. It's made possible, so there's nothing wrong with it!
-I can lick the back of my shoe. It's possible, so I can do it freely! hooray!
-I can grab that cake from that drawer, and run with it, and then eat it! Since it's possible, there's nothing wrong with it!
-I can stab someone to death, and therefore, I can do it!
Yes, but in real life you get to prison!
I wonder why there's a ToA in Maple then, and why one of the "not-to-do stuff" is KSing...
let's say it's a group picnic. Anyone can go up and get any food they want. I walk up and take a hot dog, and start eating it. You, seeing that I have a hot dog, suddenly decide that you want one, but instead of going to get your own, you just walk up and start eating mine while I'm already eating it. You don't look to see if there are other hot dogs that aren't currently in someone's mouth, or if there are even any hot dogs at all.
What's worse still is that most of the people who would do that would not only just walk up to any random person and start eating theirs, but they'd look for the weakest individual, let's say a little boy eating a hot dog, and take theirs, instead of trying to take it from someone who could defend themselves against it.
Yeah, hope that made this sound as ridiculous as it actually is. >_>
I was hunting Headless Horseman today and this happened D= - Findings - 2008-10-12
Heidi Wrote:I'm sure that happens sometimes, but I doubt that there would be many of them. Wouldn't it just be best to leave them be? They'll get sick of it eventually, and they'll leave it and somebody can kill it when they do. No point trying to force them out. If they can survive there, let them have their fun if they got there first. There could have been another high level person there anyway, meaning that you couldn't have had it anyway. Why should levels be rights? (Though I would never agree with people there just to loot)
I don't think that a person can claim a boss before it has spawned. Meaning that saying "cc plz" at a map where a boss will spawn is something that I don't agree with. Once it has spawned though, people walking in and killing it if another person is is just plain rude.
Yeah, okay, Nexon made it so that people could do that. But it's really just treating others how you want to be treated.
I sometimes hunt snowman miniboss. I don't like it when another person walks in and instead of leaving, they KS me.
What is "best" isn't something that can be realistically deciphered. People have been spending hours and hours killing bosses since they've been released. Whether or not someone will stay for 6 hours to finish off a Pianus isn't something that can be predicted if you don't know them personally. Everyone that kills bosses isn't selfish and concerned with being the only person there, when someone comes to kill your Pianus they aren't necessarily trying to "force you out." Levels aren't rights and I never said anything suggesting they were.
Please stop saying things like "it's just plain rude" and providing no justification as to why it is other than "I said so." I do treat others how I want to be treated.
psychopat Wrote:I can't believe you're actually trying to justify this, Findings...
Her example wasn't horribly biased, it was a regular example that has happened to tons of people, myself included with my 57 mule. And yes, your counterexample would make the guy an ass too.
It was biased to one side and didn't tell the tale of those who were "trying to KS him," yes. Just as my example didn't put much into the DK's story. If you really think people need to spend years earning their skills on populated servers I have nothing more to say to you. Maple Story is a video game, and should never be taken that seriously.
Retalion Wrote:I think you're being too technical here. Yes, these bosses are free for all, but MOST people would leave, leading that to be the norm so that when people dont relinquish this "right" of theirs, then people become appalled.
The ign in your info bar on the side doesnt exist on rankings so i have no idea what level you really are but it says hunter so I'll assume you arent aware or involved with "elite politics", which also plays a factor into this. Yes, these bosses are free for all, but that doesnt stop one guild from ksing the other because someone "ksed their anego" or something. The guild "ksing" could argue that its free for all, but that wont prevent the guild that "got ksed" from starting a ks war at skeles or newties or something. Perhaps its just a Scania thing, perhaps its trans-server, I dont know but Im just saying that's how it works. Back in the day, you can stay in the altar for hours on end because there was no timer before/after it. Can we say "Nexon made zakum without a timer so people can hold it so no one else can zak and they can monopolize Z-helm prices and keep them at 200 mill a piece"? You tell me.
Finding HH has nothing to do with your sleep sched, dont go around saying "If you have a normal sleep schedule" nonsense because it's not true. People live all over the world, people sleep at different times, it's just the way things work.
I agree that "we who dont ks other people's bosses are not superior in any way" but at the same time, that doesnt mean we're looking down on you with disdain. We're not out to get you, we're merely voicing our opinions. It is somewhat hypocritical that you insist and call Isaac (and others) egotistical for thinking that their way of looking at it is right when the basis of you calling them egotistical (that theirs is the only right way, at least you perceive to be so) is that they dont agree with you.
The entire topic has been about technicality since people began calling strangers that they don't know personally assholes for merely killing boss in a certain way. I've tried to leave what I do personally out of it as much as possible, but morons can't seem to help but assume that because I understand and sympathize with people that "KS" bosses I have to be one of them.
I suppose I should have clarified "EST/PST" sleep schedule, since that's the only time it would be difficult to find HH.
I have multiple 4th job characters and I've been in Scania and experienced the "elite politics" you speak of. Yes, Zakum was originally FFA, and fortunately Nexon caught on to how much it sucked that way. It's surprising they haven't done the same for Pianus (or at the least, the drops), considering it has a lot of the same problems.
It has nothing at all to do with them not agreeing with me, it has to do with them not agreeing with the way Nexon has made the game and taking their frustration out on other players. As you may have noticed, what I've typed here isn't an opinion or a belief, it's a reiteration of the game mechanics that, for some odd reason, people have a hard time grasping.
If people are referring to themselves as "decent/civilized people" or calling others that don't play exactly the same way they do various names, how is that not looking down on them? Exactly, people are voicing mere opinions and think so highly of themselves that those opinions are how the game works.
IsaacGS Wrote:Don't you think the fact that everyone is arguing against you should tell you a little something about your viewpoint here? Socially, in game, it is considered rude to start attacking a monster that someone else is attacking. It doesn't matter if it's a level 10 beginner fighting a green snail or a level 200 fighting Anego, they were there first, and if you even have the tiniest bit of respect for your fellow players you will not disrupt their playing of the game. By attacking that boss, or snail, or whatever it is that they are fighting, you are showing an extreme amount of rudeness and disrespect. Wouldn't telling the person who has already been killing this boss for 10-15 minutes "TOO BAD FFA" be depriving them of the choice to get their items?
In your little DK example up there, it really comes down to whether they're capable of actually defeating the boss. A level 50 Spearman could easily take any hit that HH has to dish out, but that doesn't mean he can kill it. If a 100 DK can't hit it enough to get over the HP regen then he obviously doesn't stand a chance of killing it. These kinds of people usually request help when they're coming in. Besides the fact that a 12x archer couldn't survive pianus attacks and hunting for SE 20 at that level is horribly inefficient, and that there are very few casual players who actually go to bosses, which pretty much renders the whole scenario moot, that DK would inevitably get bored or annoyed with messing with that Pianus.
"FFA" is an excuse used solely by greedy, rude, disrespectful people who are only interested in their own benefit of the scenario. They attack the boss to steal the drops, they attack it to sap the EXP, but for no reason do they ever do it for a good motive. It is purely out of a selfish desire to benefit. It's pretty rare that anyone actually "needs" something from a boss. Even when they do, it's normally not something that actually requires them to KS to get. I have a good example of this in the Bosshunter armor. To create bosshunter Helmet, I needed a Tengu nose. Rather than go around and KS people who are already fighting it just because I need something, I politely ask them for the nose, should it drop. They always agree; after all, it's not something they need, and I don't have to bother them. If anyone ever needs a Headless Horseman head, I will gladly do the same. Quests are pretty much the only time when you actually need to participate in the slaying of the boss, and the only bosses which are actually required are Area Bosses, with relatively short spawn times, and Pianus, where you can simply be partied and wait outside the door until it dies to get the item you need. All of these examples require a mere request on the part of the newcomer to the person already here rather than inciting conflict by blindly and greedily diving into battle.
KSing is inherently rude, because it displays a lack of respect and common courtesy. How can you say that these rules apply to one set of monsters and not another? It is not in some way "Egotistical" to not want to ruin someone's fun. People who do go around and deliberately use this little "FFA" argument to justify their KSing are not the kind of people most want to associate with. If they do it to the wrong person, then they'll probably find themselves harassed. Naturally someone under this "FFA" ideology would avoid these people in the big guilds to not get harassed. So why is it only fair for people who aren't in big guilds to get harassed? It isn't.
Oh yeah, not to mention that KSing of any kind is against the ToS, so the FFA argument is disestablished there.
The fact that people are arguing against bosses being FFA is no surprise to me whatsoever, no. That is the kind of community that plays this game. It is rude to attack a monster that someone else is attacking when there are 19 other channels of the same monster available, yes, but when you're talking about a monster that has an impact on one's life because of how much time is needed to hunt them, no, that isn't rude, and anyone who is really "decent" or "civilized" would be able to understand that. They also wouldn't throw the term respect around so loosely that it could apply to how one goes about killing a boss in Maple Story. There are an infinite amount of things that can disrupt a player's game, so that is a flat out ridiculous thing to bring up. There are things that could negatively affect someone and in the end benefit them, but it is pointless to discuss due to the exponential possibilities. Getting items isn't ever a choice aside from at the Gachapon machine. You're trying too hard to compare actual entities (bosses) to potential entities. Actual entities, within the bounds of the game, I mean.
Do not pretend that you have experience at Pianus and say things like "These kinds of people usually request help when they're coming in" when you later prove that you don't by saying 12X Archers don't have enough HP to kill it efficiently. For one, HB mules have been around forever, and also pretty much everyone will begin HP washing at about that time so that Pap can be soloed by 140. Only 3600 HP is needed for the left side, and what you don't have can easily be made up for with HP equips. I hunted SE from Pianus myself right when 4th job came out and saved a couple hundred mil. I gained four levels hunting it from Sharks, finding it there just doesn't work because of how bad the map is for Archers. The gelts I had saved made the whole thing a breeze.
FFA is not an "excuse" of all things. LOL. Just because someone plays the game according to the rules that are in place doesn't mean they want them to be that way, and wouldn't prefer that they be changed. Why do you think that people think they own bosses? It's exactly the same reason, they are greedy and want everything they see for themselves. They aren't any better than how you describe people that share everything. Your solution to bosses being difficult to find requires that you rely on the aid of others. There's nothing wrong with that, but there are some that like doing things on their own. And items that aren't untradeable and unneeded present a problem here.
Common courtesy is relative. If you want to exercise it, it is your own business. But expecting people to follow your own imaginary rules (especially in a worldwide game with an uncountable amount of cultures) is simply delusional. I've specified above why it applies to one set of monsters and not the other. It is egotistical to label people and tell them they're in the wrong when they're doing something that is perfectly understandable, something they may not want to be doing but have to do in order to get anywhere. Definitely egotistical to a mental degree when they are in the wrong because of a rule that exists in your head, and saying that because they kill bosses a different way they are "not the kind of people you want to associate with" exemplifies this. People that kill bosses regardless of the circumstance would never find themselves harassed because they aren't as sensitive and self absorbed as the people in this topic. Killing with other people around wouldn't be anything new. The big guilds that you mention are almost always a joke and are overhyped, people that are scared of them usually only are because of hearsay.
If KSing of any kind weren't allowed a couple hundred people would be banned every GM summoning event. However, they aren't, because those monsters are intended to be killed right then and there. It's the exact same thing with any boss that allows anyone to join in the fun.
The post about comparing Maple Story to real life was so dumb that I'm just going to assume everything about it was a joke. There wouldn't be any prisons or...picnics in a society where everyone was looking out solely for their own survival.
I was hunting Headless Horseman today and this happened D= - GMSInfighter - 2008-10-12
Findings, it's quite simple that even your apparent small brain can understand it!
Let me break it down just so I don't strain that little thing up there.
It is very rude and disrespectful to just go up to someone and say "Hey this your boss? Not anymore". Yes the game was made for FFA, but not for KSing.
It's about 6 against 1 in this thread. Pretty much saying "Give up".
I was hunting Headless Horseman today and this happened D= - Lerk - 2008-10-12
Findings Wrote:Yes, Zakum was originally FFA, and fortunately Nexon caught on to how much it sucked that way.
Zakum was never FFA. Pre-Zakum Squadron it was at best similar to Papulatus: Altar available to those who had completed the quests, but as soon as you summoned Zakum, the altar closed. No chance for random interference from other players.
Findings Wrote:It is rude to attack a monster that someone else is attacking when there are 19 other channels of the same monster available, yes, but when you're talking about a monster that has an impact on one's life because of how much time is needed to hunt them, no, that isn't rude...
So, you're agreeing that it takes a large amount of time to hunt a boss... and then you say it's not rude to make other users waste the time they spend to hunt a boss they find only so you can pop in later, outdamage them and loot the drops.
...Can you not see the problem with that?
I was hunting Headless Horseman today and this happened D= - Findings - 2008-10-14
Snipe Wrote:Findings, it's quite simple that even your apparent small brain can understand it!
Let me break it down just so I don't strain that little thing up there.
It is very rude and disrespectful to just go up to someone and say "Hey this your boss? Not anymore". Yes the game was made for FFA, but not for KSing.
It's about 6 against 1 in this thread. Pretty much saying "Give up".
"I have nothing to say that hasn't already been covered, but I'm going to post just to feel better about myself."
Let me explain something very simple to you, read what you're responding to before responding to it.
Lerk Wrote:Zakum was never FFA. Pre-Zakum Squadron it was at best similar to Papulatus: Altar available to those who had completed the quests, but as soon as you summoned Zakum, the altar closed. No chance for random interference from other players.
It was different than the typical bosses that you could just waltz into, yes. But I still would call it FFA just because anybody, unwanted or not, could get into the altar if they were past the door. I would never call it public though.
Lerk Wrote:So, you're agreeing that it takes a large amount of time to hunt a boss... and then you say it's not rude to make other users waste the time they spend to hunt a boss they find only so you can pop in later, outdamage them and loot the drops.
...Can you not see the problem with that?
I see no problem with that at all. Everyone's time has an equal amount of worth regardless of what they've been through. The example I used was only used to show the other side of the spectrum. Just because someone has been hunting their 4th job skills for a couple months, or had spent hours looking through channels and ending up getting lucky doesn't mean that their effort put forth has accumulated value over that period. The DK and the BM in my example both have the same right to be there.
I was hunting Headless Horseman today and this happened D= - GummyBear - 2008-10-14
I dont see the needs to KS anyone trying to hunt HH. I myself have given away several HH, for various reasons including friends, a stranger happens to hunt at the same time, etc. I have found several people come in, see me killing one, leave. That mutual respect works both ways. I leave them alone, they leave me alone, we both ended up finding our own HH, and we both get what we wanted.
However, I have had situations where someone KSing me even tho they saw me killing one. Needless to say, I fight for my kill, but a little curtosy goes a long way. You may have the advantage at that time, but may not next time. Mutual respect goes a long way whether its FFA or not.
I was hunting Headless Horseman today and this happened D= - Pikachu - 2008-10-14
Reminds me of this time when I was 7x and cakes were not FFA. I found one in Henesys and 15 minutes into the battle a 15x Shadower came. Luckily I out damaged her by a little bit and got all the maple drops. I gave some to the person who originally found it though because I felt bad =/.
I was hunting Headless Horseman today and this happened D= - Alloy - 2008-10-14
Actually, my post wasn't that ridiculous. I exagerated it, yeah. But, you see? Being an ass is something only you can control. And in a multiplayer game like this, it's something up to you.
Yes, the game is made so you can be an ass. Ok, be it. But don't complain.