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+--- Thread: An undiscussed topic about Maker (/showthread.php?tid=11626)
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Fiel - 2009-05-24
eos, your calculations aren't right. Why are there only 3200 appraised diamonds showing up when I'm paying for 4377 diamonds?
It should be...
High = 218
Mid = 1094
Low = 3063
An undiscussed topic about Maker - MasPan - 2009-05-24
eos367 Wrote:And yet it will stop neither Fiel nor myself.
Iiiiiiiiii'm grading my life away... hoping to make it pay...
Good way to pass long boat rides. At Fiel, as do "7 attack" capes that have 7def6mdef.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Eos - 2009-05-24
IllegallySane Wrote:Uh, wow. A high grade being worth 3m? Actually doesn't sound that expensive at all, but that's only for one. I need to factor in the fact mass producing high grades for the sake of making a godly scrolled item will really put a dent in one's wallet. I guess I was expecting a high grade to retail for 5-8m instead.
That 3m is what you'd have to sell it for to break even.
Noone wants to break even, we all want profit, which is why the profit for selling it at 5m or 10m was listed.
Keep in mind the costs get insanely higher when you do crystals
Here's how that simulation came out:
400
| Phase | High | Mid | Low | Cost |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Appraisal | 3 | 97 | 300 | 40,000,000 |
| Upgrading Lows | 3 | 123 | 1 | 19,500,000 |
| Upgrading Mids | 14 | 0 | 1 | 12,000,000 |
| Total | 71,500,000 | |||
| Break Even Fee | 5,107,143 | |||
| 5m Profit | (1,500,000) | |||
| 10m Profit | 68,500,000 |
4000
| Phase | High | Mid | Low | Cost |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Appraisal | 47 | 1091 | 2862 | 400,000,000 |
| Upgrading Lows | 47 | 1345 | 3 | 171,900,000 |
| Upgrading Mids | 157 | 8 | 3 | 173,500,000 |
| Total | 745,400,000 | |||
| Break Even Fee | 4,747,771 | |||
| 5m Profit | 39,600,000 | |||
| 10m Profit | 824,600,000 |
High grade crystals are going to be quite expensive because 5m doesn't even meet their break even fee for low volumes.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Moonlapse - 2009-05-24
Dang this looks like a massive meso sinkhole. Hopefully it will mess up the fm guilds a bit.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Eos - 2009-05-24
Fiel Wrote:eos, your calculations aren't right. Why are there only 3200 appraised diamonds showing up when I'm paying for 4377 diamonds?
It should be...
High = 218
Mid = 1094
Low = 3063
Accidentally ran them with an override for 3200 in there.
Found that when I was doing the crystal one above.
Edit* Put in the corrected figures.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - MasPan - 2009-05-24
eos367 Wrote:That 3m is what you'd have to sell it for to break even.
Noone wants to break even, we all want profit, which is why the profit for selling it at 5m or 10m was listed.
Keep in mind the costs get insanely higher when you do crystals
Here's how that simulation came out:
400
Phase High Mid Low Cost Appraisal 3 97 300 40,000,000 Upgrading Lows 3 123 1 19,500,000 Upgrading Mids 14 0 1 12,000,000 Total 71,500,000 Break Even Fee 5,107,143 5m Profit (1,500,000) 10m Profit 68,500,000
4000
Phase High Mid Low Cost Appraisal 47 1091 2862 400,000,000 Upgrading Lows 47 1345 3 171,900,000 Upgrading Mids 157 8 3 173,500,000 Total 745,400,000 Break Even Fee 4,747,771 5m Profit 39,600,000 10m Profit 824,600,000
High grade crystals are going to be quite expensive because 5m doesn't even meet their break even fee for low volumes.
And ofc none of this takes into account inflating ore/crystal prices. Costs will dramatically increase when you don't have the ores to begin with and have to buy them.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Eos - 2009-05-24
MasPan Wrote:And ofc none of this takes into account inflating ore/crystal prices. Costs will dramatically increase when you don't have the ores to begin with and have to buy them.
Why would you have to buy them? I get hundreds of Wisdom and Diamond ores at newties. Refined diamonds drop in APQ... The ores drop from mobs all over the place.
Only the lazy would be buying ores or refined ungraded items in the first place.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - MasPan - 2009-05-24
eos367 Wrote:Why would you have to buy them? I get hundreds of Wisdom and Diamond ores at newties. Refined diamonds drop in APQ... The ores drop from mobs all over the place.
Only the lazy would be buying ores or refined ungraded items in the first place.
You're not going to get 40,000 wisdom ores on your own. Same goes for STR, DEX, etc - assuming you get one every 5minutes, that's 12 an hour. Don't have to do that math on that one to know that = suck. Even Wolf Spiders don't drop them that much, so in reality it's probably even more bleak. I'm talking in terms of mass-grading here, not "hey, I want to make an equip" (and APQ is a special exception, as Diamonds from it are the only mass-dropped gems in the game).
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Eos - 2009-05-24
MasPan Wrote:You're not going to get 40,000 wisdom ores on your own. Same goes for STR, DEX, etc - assuming you get one every 5minutes, that's 12 an hour. Don't have to do that math on that one to know that = suck. Even Wolf Spiders don't drop them that much, so in reality it's probably even more bleak. I'm talking in terms of mass-grading here, not "hey, I want to make an equip" (and APQ is a special exception, as Diamonds from it are the only mass-dropped gems in the game).
Well, in just the wisdom crystal ore's i've gotten from regular grinding and farming I've currently amassed over 300 refined wisdom crystals. If I were actively pooling them from guildies and allies I'd probably have 10 times that easily.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - MasPan - 2009-05-24
eos367 Wrote:Well, in just the wisdom crystal ore's i've gotten from regular grinding and farming I've currently amassed over 300 refined wisdom crystals. If I were actively pooling them from guildies and allies I'd probably have 10 times that easily.
Which requires a mass group effort, which isn't always an option, especially when others are trying to do the same thing. Also, you amassed yours over a long period of time, which is less likely to happen when you have Maker - you'd be more likely to appraise piece-meal, bit by bit, which isn't the same as mass appraising.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Eos - 2009-05-24
Ok, reran my simulations with the correct number of iterations for everything.
Fiel, do you know if the Hands attribute has any bearing on the chances of grading, or if it's just applicable to the actual item creation portion of Maker?
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Fiel - 2009-05-24
eos367 Wrote:Ok, reran my simulations with the correct number of iterations for everything.
Fiel, do you know if the Hands attribute has any bearing on the chances of grading, or if it's just applicable to the actual item creation portion of Maker?
It's only applicable to stimulators.
I ran a few tests myself. I found that if I took all gems and attempted to always convert them to HQ, it would cost in the ballpark of 750m mesos and I'd end up with 300 - 350 HQ gems.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Eos - 2009-05-24
Fiel Wrote:It's only applicable to stimulators.
I ran a few tests myself. I found that if I took all gems and attempted to always convert them to HQ, it would cost in the ballpark of 750m mesos and I'd end up with 300 - 350 HQ gems.
Yeah, my simulation came up with a real nice worst case for you on try #1... That one came out frankly awful.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - GummyBear - 2009-05-24
Furies are going to go up in prices.............................
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Takebacker - 2009-05-25
By the way, this feature (as well as the item break down feature) was mentioned in one of the most recent pages of isaacs maker thread.
Also, quit destroying my dreams of upgrading with your numbers.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Ohmer007 - 2009-05-25
Hello, been lurking here for a few months, wanted to contributed on some information on Maker skill.
I play on Lanla in Thailand MapleStory, and Maker skill came out along with Magatia Town in the last patch (0.65) sometime in April, about two months ago. These information are based on my past experience.
About decomposing items:
1.) You can only decompose armors. Not weapons. The armors must be usable by your class as well.
2. ) Decomposing armors only give you monster crystals. The grade of the monster crystals you receive depends on the level of armor (e.g. decomposing a White Anakarune gives you Low class monster crystal B).
3. ) Decomposing armors does not give you additional crystals or powder. There is no difference between decomposing a Red Anakarune or a Dark Anakarune. Both gives the same crystal, but amount of crystals you get may vary.
So far I have only made a lvl 70 mage sandals with +5 int (infused it with a low class wisdom crystal).
My server is very small, so we don't get a lot of crystals. Also, magic powders only drop (and very rarely) from mobs in Magatia, so at the moment Maker skill seems like a waste of time.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Eos - 2009-05-25
Takebacker Wrote:Also, quit destroying my dreams of upgrading with your numbers.
Sorry, no. My numbers live to crush the hopes and dreams of the innocent.
I raise them on a special diet of Nexon TOS agreements to keep them hateful and bitter.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Fiel - 2009-05-25
Thank you for your input, Ohmer. Stay around - we'd love to hear what it's like in other versions.
Anyway, I've created a simulator in python to find the average amount of profit (sales - costs) considering my current situation.
I evaluated the following questions:
1. How much meso can be made by upgrading everything to HQ?
2. Upgrade MQ to HQ, but not LQ to MQ.
3. How much meso can be made by upgrading LQ to MQ, but not MQ to HQ?
4. How much meso can be made by doing no upgrades at all?
Here were my results:
1. Upgrade everything to HQ: 12.5b
2. Upgrade MQ to HQ, but not LQ to MQ: 13.5b
3. Upgrade LQ to MQ, but not MQ to HQ: 15.5b
4. No upgrades: 15.8b
There are several things to consider here:
1. It's probably harder to sell 1 WATK diamonds since people want the better quality 2 WATK ones. So that makes the upgrade more worthwhile since it will decrease the amount of time the item is stuck in inventory. This alone makes #3 the best option.
2. The amount of time invested into upgrading diamonds is large. Through my calculations, It will take me nearly 6 hours of constant appraising, and then I have to upgrade! So I have to manage my time wisely.
Here's the script I used: (Lemme know if I made any mistakes)
Spoiler
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Eos - 2009-05-25
Fiel Wrote:#Possible sale prices
SALE_HQ = 40000000 #40m
SALE_MQ = 5000000 #5m
SALE_LQ = 500000 #500k
How did you arrive at those values?
They've got a significantly higher variance than I'd expect, and both middle and high quality seem higher than the market is likely to tolerate due to saturation.
An undiscussed topic about Maker - Fiel - 2009-05-25
http://www.southperry.net/forums/showpost.php?p=146925&postcount=273