blitzkrieg Wrote:I just read the PM. sorry, I was moving cross-country when you sent it and must have missed it at some point. I see what you mean about the mobility but I don't think you understand how much damage you take alternating between cooling effect and fire burner.. you'll end up getting hit so much that you lose the entire point behind mobility in the first place. I'm assuming that torpedo is a stronger skill as well, as it hasn't been proven otherwise, so personally I think giving up the mobility for more damage done to the monsters and less done to you is worth it.

if you don't believe me about the damage you'll take alternating between cooling effect and fire burner, I'll take a video later. you literally get hit every time you use fire burner.

as for my fourth job build.. it's hard to say lol. I'll definitely be getting 1 point into a lot of skills like support octo, air strike, and elemental amp, then maxing cannon, but after that I'm not sure anymore. I know you guys are all against it (with reason), but I'm considering getting some points in battleship and possibly even maxing it. I know it seems like a stupid idea, but the extra HP matters a lot to me since I won't be getting all that high leveled lol. I'll deal with the cooldown. for the most part, I'm just gonna see what I'm able to do with the skill books I'll be getting.

Russt Wrote:Shrapnel, how would Flamesplitter-mobbing be any worse than Torpedo-mobbing in terms of damage taken?

Edit: Ohhh right, you can freeze and Torpedo. I'm dumb
Couldn't you also stun and Flamesplitter, though, if it's really that a big deal?

Cyadd Wrote:[COLOR="Red"]I'm in a dilemma,

At level 25, I have around 190k meso, which i've had to borrow twice, and I don't want to spend a lot of money on mesos, or i can if the pay-off is good. But my major question is if I should kpq, acpq, or train somewhere? I would like to not lose that much money when I repot, but also would like good exp... Any suggestions?[/COLOR]

Kaasoljoyyx Wrote:For my f/p, monsters are still burned even if i use paralyze which contitutes as an ice mages freeze.

The only ways a mosnter will stopped be burning I believe are:

- They reach 1 hp
- The timer for how long it burns is over
- Another "hp reducing attack" is activated onto it i.e. FD, ID, mist, etc

Everything else won't get rid of it.

Russt Wrote:It's not so much that the burn is negated as the freeze.

@ Steve
Can't monsters be frozen+stunned at the same time?

QuickDraw Wrote:Cooling effect cancels out Burners DoT effect.

Takebacker Wrote:I don't think there's a class that can stun and freeze besides gunslingers to test it out. Lol.

I don't see why a monster would be stunned and frozen at the same time though.

TLeviathan Wrote:White Knight. Charged Blow with Ice Charge should do both but only freezes.

TLeviathan Wrote:No DoT for fire charge.

Russt Wrote:It's not so much that the burn is negated as the freeze.

@ Steve
Can't monsters be frozen+stunned at the same time?

Russt Wrote:Shrapnel, how would Flamesplitter-mobbing be any worse than Torpedo-mobbing in terms of damage taken?

Edit: Ohhh right, you can freeze and Torpedo. I'm dumb
Couldn't you also stun and Flamesplitter, though, if it's really that a big deal?

Takebacker Wrote:Ah, yeah...that explains your being gone for that bit of time too. It's fine man.

It's not completely the damage and mobility though...with amp you can max MW, support octo, adv homing, etc earlier. You can possibly preserve the ship in case you slip up and the mob behind you thaws out before you're done killing. You can use amp to mob immediately because burner and cooling are already delt with, compared to torpedo where you would have to wait until at least 15+ before it would probably kill faster than cannon on more than 4 monsters.

It's not that i don't believe you, it's that i don't think it's as much as you're saying. That or because you haven't used it much, you're not maneuvering as well as you could and take more damage because of it. xP I would suggest himes as the map of choice...but KMS doesn't have it. >_> If you can think of a map that's somewhat flat and filled with neutral monsters, use that.

@ build: Nah, sounds reasonable to me. If you think you're not going to play that much into fourth, go for it. :f6: I would just get level 3-5 at least though, because 6 minutes is unbearable...for me anyway.



I don't think that will matter, because the monsters will be frozen in 2 seconds anyway, getting rid of the stun and then the freeze will be negated by burner (at least i'm pretty damn sure that's how it works).

Takebacker Wrote:I don't think there's a class that can stun and freeze besides gunslingers to test it out. Lol.

I don't see why a monster would be stunned and frozen at the same time though.



No it doesn't.

blitzkrieg Wrote:as chris said, your summons will remove the stun.



you can't max anything earlier. both skills have the same amount of SP required and I wasn't even planning on getting maxed amp until after I had those other skills anyway. since that's not an advantage of getting amp earlier instead of torpedo, the fire burner and cooling effect combo just doesn't seem appealing to me at all. the only thing I'd want it for is the extra freeze time, which certainly isn't necessary since you can just freeze the monster again if you need to.

I checked the combo on a macro and took a lot less damage than I was earlier.. but it's still enough for me to know I don't want to train with it. with cooling effect + torpedo, you'll not only do more damage but take a lot less as well. I just don't see the advantage.



I just checked and a monster can be frozen and stunned at the same time. it doesn't matter though.. when I used gaviota after freezing + stunning, it just removed the stun and not the freeze.

Takebacker Wrote:Our old build had torpedo being maxed at 16x or so, before amp. After realizing that amp is more than fine for mobbing, we pushed torpedo back before MW and support octo (i think, i don't remember the build completely). Point is that MW and support octo was to be maxed in 17x-18x but now they're being maxed in the 16x. O_o MW isn't that big a deal if you're partying at newties but you'll be at skeles that far along anyway because it's better exp. Support octo helps a lot though, because 80k+ damage per minute for a summon alone isn't that good at 15x+. xD I for one would want to see that sexy 10k dmg per hit from octo sooner anyway.

Yeah, i didn't think stunning was going to work. Ah well.

blitzkrieg Wrote:if you're going to use fire burner and cooling instead of torpedo, why max torpedo before your other skills? my build has torpedo maxed during 15x-16x, then only level 1 amp until 18x. if you choose to use burner + cooling with amp, and still max torpedo before your other skills, yeah you're wasting 30 SP. but if you save one for later (amp!) you can use that SP on something else.

Takebacker Wrote:Noo, what i meant is that in the old build i drafted with kazoo amp was left at level 16 for the freeze and torpedo after that for the mobbing. THEN MW and support octo were maxed, and i think amp was maxed second to last before mind control.

So with the new build of maxing amp for mobbing, we pushed torpedo way back so all the other skills got bumped up. :O

Cyadd Wrote:Anyone else have any suggestions? 25-30?