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+---- Thread: #Gamergate (/showthread.php?tid=72381)
#Gamergate - CarrionCrow - 2014-10-23
KhainiWest Wrote:Still not following you, there is no middle ground for #gamergate because a standard is needed, and instead of discussing about the standards, the entire movement is slandered by the companies in question. The real problem is, they stole all rights of conversation when they posted 20 articles saying their reader base is dead to them because they asked questions. At this point the only way they hit middle ground is if they apply common sense and apply the most common of ethical standards.
Oh, I ment more like where should I, as a player stand? I don't really agree with any of the sides.
I want people like Sarkeesian to leave the gaming stage for good, but that goes for the slopebrowed weaselplantains, as the random sports dude in Razmos' post so eminently put it, too.
I'll admit that I am out of the loop on this subject though. I have not been following any gaming journalism online at all.
#Gamergate - Five Second Pose - 2014-10-23
CarrionCrow Wrote:Late to the party here, but is there no middle ground to stand on?
A source that would like to remain anonymous says "can someone tell CarrionCrow that the 'middle ground' is just like to play games™"
#Gamergate - KhainiWest - 2014-10-23
CarrionCrow Wrote:Oh, I ment more like where should I, as a player stand? I don't really agree with any of the sides.
I want people like Sarkeesian to leave the gaming stage for good, but that goes for the slopebrowed weaselplantains, as the random sports dude in Razmos' post so eminently put it, too.
I'll admit that I am out of the loop on this subject though. I have not been following any gaming journalism online at all.
You as a gamer should really stand against Gawker who is the head honcho of majority of the gaming journalism websites like Kotaku. What happened essentially is after Zoe quinn's story went out, her possible sexual relations brought up a lot of questions regarding conflicts of interest. We found a lot of the developers for indie games(which makes this tragic) have been donated and sometimes had their games invested in by the author while they write about them. With such blatant lack of impartiality present, people asked why this was acceptable.
Instead of actually confronting the issue, every single website said gamers (the stereotype) are nothing but pigs, and named every stereotypical insult you can imagine. I didn't really care about the zoe quinn thing, her story was hilarious as she's clearly a psychopath, but I wouldn't stand for being attacked for my hobby just because it didn't fit their ideology. These relationships quickly led to people censoring the entire conversation, not because it was inappropriate but because they didn't want to talk about it.
As a gamer you should stand for genuine creativity, where a political ideology does not become a standard and hence hinder creativity. That's what this circle of wagons (Zoe, Wu and Anita) are trying to do, along with leigh alexander bragging about being a "career killer" for people who disagree with her. That in my opinion is where every gamer should stand, where you will face the following rebuttals;
#gamergate is a harassment movement! Zoe quinn didn't deserve it!:
This argument is so strawman that it's almost like the wizard of oz came on my porch. These women who are claiming harassment have been dealing with it for years. I don't condone or even support they should die, but #gamergate disappearing over night will not make their strife as well. These females face these consequences because they try to push a political agenda, which is a toxic and even more flame bait than anything sexist. You should encourage games to have more interesting characters, not force them. Ubisoft making assassin creed without a playable female character was a creative decision that you should f`uck off and accept, not brutally criticize as if it's a necessity, that's not your place to dictate.
#gamergate isn't important! Deal with real politics you nerds!
Another broad stroke. This is a hobby, a hobby I don't enjoy being castrated by peoples opinions that are on baseless ideologies that I'm inherently sexist because Lara croft gets hit by a f`ucking boulder. Or that I'm rescuing some princess. I don't give a sh`it about that, I play to see "I WIN", and win I mean I completed the game. I don't get some raging hard on from reading "PEACH AND MARIO LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER", I just wanted to play the fun stages with friends. I don't play God of War because I'm a thug who kills women for fun, I play it because I kill GODS, and TITANS. Most of these goddamn issues arent even gender related.
#gamergate I agree with you but you need to rename the movement, it's poisoned the well!
Yeah by the people who made this a problem in the first place, that is called "propaganda" working, f`ucking sheep. What you want us to change our name to "GAMERLOVE", what the f`uck do you think will happen, the SAME PEOPLE will participate in this vicious circle. "OH BLAH BLAH GOT DOXX'D GAMERLOVE IS RESPONSIBLE". That's not how you fix the problem, you fix the problem BY F`UCKING ADDING STANDARDS THAT HAVE COMMON SENSE. If she wants to donate her house to f`ucking pedophiles, let me know in the article so I know why she's so supportive of children being raped. Don't attack me for asking YOU for either context or outright banning of bribery, 90% of america wants it out of politics and you're going to tell me to "get over it" in gaming? Are you kidding? They could have resolved this by simply putting disclosure, by even explaining why they allow it and that the blowback was so hard they can't anymore. Which by the way they kind of did at least for kotaku. They should have left it at that, but oh no, these people hate us, and will have us know they hate writing for us.
Went a little ranty there but I've had to hold my tongue regarding a lot of these arguments because when I publically put up that tag, I have to show we can maturely tell someone they are stupid and have no idea what the flying f`uck they're talking about.
![[Image: B0rH441CQAAQAdd.png]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0rH441CQAAQAdd.png)
#Gamergate - ShinkuDragon - 2014-10-23
CarrionCrow Wrote:Oh, I ment more like where should I, as a player stand? I don't really agree with any of the sides.
I want people like Sarkeesian to leave the gaming stage for good, but that goes for the slopebrowed weaselplantains, as the random sports dude in Razmos' post so eminently put it, too.
I'll admit that I am out of the loop on this subject though. I have not been following any gaming journalism online at all.
i'll sumarise it pretty short:
Gamergate: We want journalistic ethics and your SJW bullshit out of reviews (or on the side or something, just review games and devs fairly)
game journos (pro!): you guys hate sarkeesian and zoe and all these women! so i'll ignore your call for ethics because it's just a facade to hate women!
...that's pretty much it. of course, it skips both sides having the nutjobs that send death threats and doxxes (yes, both sides) the main issue though is that gamergate has no face, meanwhile on the other side we have the head honchos of several sites saying some pomegranate that would get a bunch of people fired on any real company. and the advertisers that have pulled out seem to agree with that.
#Gamergate - KhainiWest - 2014-10-23
[video=youtube;d1QE66XioZc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1QE66XioZc[/video]
SLAM SLAM
GG NO REMATCH, NO REMATCH
#Gamergate - IllegallySane - 2014-10-23
CarrionCrow Wrote:Oh, I ment more like where should I, as a player stand?
To remain neutral in this giant shi'tstorm, the only winning move is not to play.
**As proof the winning move is not to play, I just watched the latest Extra Credits video, and the comments were flooded with people unsubbing because of an anti-GG tweet. Sad to say, whoever made the tweet is not well informed about what's truly going on with GG: https://twitter.com/ExtraCreditz/status/525036048145858560
Had the person who made the tweet just shut up, people wouldn't be giving Extra Credits flak. This'll hurt their reputation a ton until all this finally blows over.
**I take back what I said. Just went through Daniel, the spokesperson for EC, and his own twitter he has his super long tweet (TwitLonger actually) about being anti-GG: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sdctdn
Whelp, time to get a drink, because it just gotten harder to watch Extra Credits until all this is done. Still like their videos, but as expected their political stance is souring their work.
#Gamergate - CarrionCrow - 2014-10-24
Thanks for the update peeps.
#Gamergate - RedRaven16 - 2014-10-24
I dislike how radicals ruin everything
#Gamergate - Words - 2014-10-24
IllegallySane Wrote:To remain neutral in this giant shi'tstorm, the only winning move is not to play.
**As proof the winning move is not to play, I just watched the latest Extra Credits video, and the comments were flooded with people unsubbing because of an anti-GG tweet. Sad to say, whoever made the tweet is not well informed about what's truly going on with GG: https://twitter.com/ExtraCreditz/status/525036048145858560
Had the person who made the tweet just shut up, people wouldn't be giving Extra Credits flak. This'll hurt their reputation a ton until all this finally blows over.
**I take back what I said. Just went through Daniel, the spokesperson for EC, and his own twitter he has his super long tweet (TwitLonger actually) about being anti-GG: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sdctdn
Whelp, time to get a drink, because it just gotten harder to watch Extra Credits until all this is done. Still like their videos, but as expected their political stance is souring their work.
I think he just messes up after the first few paragraphs. It isn't gamergate that damages the gamer label, it's insanity to suggest such a thing. It's the media and some unpleasant people who also benefit from corrupt media that has called gamers bad names. They're the ones who started getting mainstream media attention and unfair/biased coverage that broadcasted their insanity and bullshit to the world.
Yes, one could say gamergate caused that... but that's stretching it WAY TOO far. Gamergate can't be blamed for media reacting stupidly to criticism, because that's exactly what happened. Saying that trolls are winning and that we should just let go because of them is just disingenuous.
#Gamergate - VerrKol - 2014-10-24
Words Wrote:I think he just messes up after the first few paragraphs. It isn't gamergate that damages the gamer label, it's insanity to suggest such a thing. It's the media and some unpleasant people who also benefit from corrupt media that has called gamers bad names. They're the ones who started getting mainstream media attention and unfair/biased coverage that broadcasted their insanity and bullshit to the world.
Yes, one could say gamergate caused that... but that's stretching it WAY TOO far. Gamergate can't be blamed for media reacting stupidly to criticism, because that's exactly what happened. Saying that trolls are winning and that we should just let go because of them is just disingenuous.
I just read his post and it's interesting; that's the only word I can think of for it. I see his perspective and where he's going, but he's basically just victim shaming. It's the moderate's fault that these extremists exist and apparently their actions mean we can't get anything done. We'll note that he poses no alternative and basically says we should give up because the GamerGate movement isn't getting positive press and the reputation for misogynism has stuck in many circles. Well pineapple it guys, the first cavalry charge failed and the war is lost. Everyone go home and accept the circle jerk oligarchy which controls substantial sections of the game development and press community.
![[Image: Bill+nye+the+i+m+so+fucking+done+guy+you...007157.jpg]](http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Bill+nye+the+i+m+so+fucking+done+guy+you+can_57e331_5007157.jpg)
#Gamergate - Flonne - 2014-10-24
KhainiWest Wrote:[video=youtube;d1QE66XioZc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1QE66XioZc[/video]
SLAM SLAM
GG NO REMATCH, NO REMATCH
Damn, that got me hyped, she's a pretty good speaker.
#Gamergate - The Great One - 2014-10-24
VerrKol Wrote:I just read his post and it's interesting; that's the only word I can think of for it. I see his perspective and where he's going, but he's basically just victim shaming. It's the moderate's fault that these extremists exist and apparently their actions mean we can't get anything done. We'll note that he poses no alternative and basically says we should give up because the GamerGate movement isn't getting positive press and the reputation for misogynism has stuck in many circles. Well pineapple it guys, the first cavalry charge failed and the war is lost. Everyone go home and accept the circle jerk oligarchy which controls substantial sections of the game development and press community.
Too bad thats not what he was getting at. He was saying the name you are using is now associated with (by everyone else on the planet) with the harnessing and misogynist people. What we need to do is simply come up with a new name. No anti-gamergate does not work to label the idiots in this movement its much too late for that. Keep the fight going just stop trying to fight using the name that every one associates with a bunch of death treat sending sexist moroans. Gamergate already has caused more harm then good people outside our hobby have more reason to write us off now. I don't know about you but that pisses me off to no end.
#Gamergate - Malthe - 2014-10-24
>Change name
>Idiotic loud vocal minority starts using new name
>Back at square one
Changing the name doesn't help and wont help. To many people, feminism has also become associated with radical feminists who believe in female supremacy even though feminism is originally about equality.
Radical and vocal minorities will always exist to ruin it for everyone else.
#Gamergate - KhainiWest - 2014-10-24
I'm literally copy and pasting this from above, the same page, not even 4 posts up.
#gamergate I agree with you but you need to rename the movement, it's poisoned the well!
Yeah by the people who made this a problem in the first place, that is called "propaganda" working, f`ucking sheep. What you want us to change our name to "GAMERLOVE", what the f`uck do you think will happen, the SAME PEOPLE will participate in this vicious circle. "OH BLAH BLAH GOT DOXX'D GAMERLOVE IS RESPONSIBLE". That's not how you fix the problem, you fix the problem BY F`UCKING ADDING STANDARDS THAT HAVE COMMON SENSE. If she wants to donate her house to f`ucking pedophiles, let me know in the article so I know why she's so supportive of children being raped. Don't attack me for asking YOU for either context or outright banning of bribery, 90% of america wants it out of politics and you're going to tell me to "get over it" in gaming? Are you kidding? They could have resolved this by simply putting disclosure, by even explaining why they allow it and that the blowback was so hard they can't anymore. Which by the way they kind of did at least for kotaku. They should have left it at that, but oh no, these people hate us, and will have us know they hate writing for us.
#Gamergate - Polantaris - 2014-10-24
Changing the name serves only to confuse people, divide the movement, and otherwise take attention way from the movement's goals in general.
It doesn't just do nothing as Malthe suggests, it makes things worse. You will have the movement going against one another over the name, saying that the old name means something that it does not simply because the nut jobs were in the old name.
It's all a mind trick. The guy deliberately suggested something some might take up to appear on their side while actually undermining them and attempting to destroy them.
#Gamergate - The Great One - 2014-10-24
Malthe Wrote:>Change nameSo we keep the name and keep shooting ourselves in the foot fighting back back against the trolls is that it? Then its about time for the majority to actually speak the hell up for once because right now we arent helping were too busy fighting the trolls and fighting each other when people suggest that we regroup and go about it another way.
>Idiotic loud vocal minority starts using new name
>Back at square one
Changing the name doesn't help and wont help. To many people, feminism has also become associated with radical feminists who believe in female supremacy even though feminism is originally about equality.
Radical and vocal minorities will always exist to ruin it for everyone else.
#Gamergate - KhainiWest - 2014-10-24
The Great One Wrote:So we keep the name and keep shooting ourselves in the foot fighting back back against the trolls is that it? Then its about time for the majority to actually speak the hell up for once because right now we arent helping were too busy fighting the trolls and fighting each other when people suggest that we regroup and go about it another way.
Where are you even seeing this? Most people have just stopped apologizing for them because it isn't our responsibility? Gamergate is winning, big time, Gawker has lost 4 MAJOR supporters and are BEGGING for money. Do not be swayed by the mainstream media, most of them actually have retracted their statements, including CNN who even made a graphic explaining how trolls are a seperate entity.
You hold your ground, you hold onto your conviction. By backing down and renaming it simply says "I agree, this movement became vile" which is just another piece of ammunition they will use against you. "LOL why did #gamergate died, CUS #GAMERLOVE IS DOING THE SAME THING".
You are a consumer and this a consumer revolt, dont you for a second think you have no power here, christmas is coming, reflect your stance with your wallet, that will speak louder than any interview. Hell even mightyno9 is in trouble now beause of all the chargebacking they said they would stop, and couldnt.
-----
http://www.businessinsider.com/sam-biddle-is-leaving-valleywag-2014-10
LOLOL SUCK IT DOUCHE (to clarify this is directed towards sam biddle since I'm editing this in)
#Gamergate - Eliseo - 2014-10-24
Here is someone that is definetely not having a good time:
#Gamergate - WhatsThereToOoze - 2014-10-24
The amount of knee-jerk defensiveness preventing the majority of this thread from actually understanding the ACTUAL message of this post is astounding.
The point, much like the one being made in the previous article I linked previously, is that GamerGate, despite all the shouting about journalist integrity (and, apparently, hate of a very specific type of editorializing), seems to be about nothing in particular.
Take this thread as a smaller, but proportionate, slice of the whole pie. The vast majority of the posts here have been arguing what GamerGate is and why it's vital with very little, if anything, being mentioned about what GamerGate has actually accomplished. There was a bit of congratulations over losing Gawker some money, but Mercedes figured the game out and signed back up with Gawker, resulting in just a temporary sting. (Intel, similarly realized they were duped, but didn't go the full 360 with Gamasutra.)
...but what does that have to do with a demand for journalistic integrity? The Mercedes fiasco was backlash at a very specific site for some poorly thought-out tweets regarding bullying, not because of the ethical problems with reviews being sold regardless of currency. Instead of focusing on ethics, GamerGate appears to be focused on destroying (not even reforming) a single media outlet which is far from the only game in town, adding to the appearance of disingenuousness to the cause. Publishers could be buying IGN hookers, but GamerGate would not care since they haven't said anything bad about GamerGate (though maybe even referencing "The Movement" will bring on the wrath).
Right now, GamerGate is anonymous; it is a lesion.
It is a religion without priests and, without leadership, there is no excommunication.
For GamerGate to ever have any hope of accomplishing anything meaningful and lasting, it needs some form of organization to create and communicate some consensus about its purpose and develop plans of achieving that purpose.
This is impossible under the current banner because any attempt to grab the reins is going to be drowned out in a sea of hashtags.
Remember how much THIS accomplished?
If GamerGate retains trajectory, it will suffer a similar fate.
Energy will wane. A new scandal will arise. Nothing will have changed.
See you in three years.
#Gamergate - Eliseo - 2014-10-24
WhatsThereToOoze Wrote:but Mercedes figured the game out and signed back up with Gawker, resulting in just a temporary sting.
Could you provide any links on this? I have not read, heard or seen anything that confirms this.