VerrKol Wrote:HOWEVER, my PM makes me extremely wary of you and your supposed pro Town intentions.

LuvDWayULie Wrote:Because I changed my mind, Niernen. I can't afford to keep a mafia at bay another day. And I believe VerrKol is a mafia.

Polantaris Wrote:2) Why would your vote influencing power make you die while Chaz had no negative effect at all?

faonkarino Wrote:And LuvD is a arsonist-cultist-terrorist-vote-neutral thing? I wonder why the mafia didn't kill him yet, even more so after voicing his support to the town (not likely he had any choice anyway.) We gotta pay attention to that.

LuvDWayULie Wrote:Yes, it is, like what faon said. So, I'm really, really surprised that the mafia decided not to kill me today, which makes me even more suspicious to you all. I believe that's the mafia's intention: To let me die within the Town's hands. So, I decided to take this matter into my own hands, which is to give you the power to tell me who to vote off.

CakesXD Wrote:I do find it quite suspicious that both Polantaris and VerrKol jumped right on Luv after seeing him as a possible threat, and I've also noticed that Polantaris has been quite aggressive in this game. Maybe a bit too aggressive...

Kyrastri Wrote:studying for a test tomorrow, sorry for the lack of posting

which begs the question LuvDWayULie; don't you have an exam?? Are you really confident or something

I'll post more theory later, I'm kinda behind in homework atm...



Could you give us the full PM, paraphrased? Was it just "you've been infected, spread the infection or die"? Did it implicate Luv in the PM?



What leads you to believe this? You called it a suspicion, but none of his posts have particularly stuck out to me as something unusual. If you're so willing to use it on him, you must have relatively conclusive evidence, otherwise you believe that gambling two potentially non-mafian lives is the way to go, and while we've all concluded that you're neutral it's a real scummy move to take out even more innocent lives.

This leads me to believe that you've got another agenda, given our poor lynching (come on people, Chaz? Really?), and you're starting to try and secure your win condition by ensuring that you can win by swiftly voting off townsfolk/other neutrals once you've reached a majority in the town, whether they be include mafia or not. That is even assuming that surviving is your main priority anymore; what's the point of constant infection if you have no intention of using your mass vote, which will assumably kill you off?

Verrkol is right in saying that the exponential increase in votes will become very dangerous soon. Even if it's a one-shot kill that will kill you in the process, if you choose incorrectly this could irrevocably tip the scales in the mafia's favour.

I'd imagine, that at the very least, given he survives up to a point he'll quickly reach a majority in votes and can essentially execute someone on the spot. That would be a very OP power without severe consequences, so I wouldn't focus on this too much.

What doesn't line up to me is how surviving until one side wins works when using his ability will kill him if he uses it, or fails to set up with it.

I'm glad you brought this up. While we're certain that the mafia wouldn't have known about the exponential nature of Luv's skill on Day 2 since he admits himself that he wasn't aware of that point. But now, Luv can very well be in serious danger.

If he doesn't die tonight, he needs to keep the people he trusts close and the people he suspects even closer. Open cooperation may seem good but with this knowledge he could be susceptible to manipulation during the day, or roleblocked if the roleblocker is mafia to prevent activation.

Not necessarily. See my response to faon; we didn't know a crucial point that could potentially make you very dangerous.

While unnecessarily enthusiastic aggression can be suspicious, remember that we've had two misses right now. I'm getting a little jittery from trying to comprehend the situation right now.

I kinda miss MasPan's limericks.

Niernen Wrote:Honestly LuvDWayULie;, I wish you had kept your power hidden until we had a strong suspicion or confirmation of mafia. Coming out with powers makes the whole day about what to do with the power. If you had waited until Verrkol had spoken and seen if he was really scummy, then you could have gone ahead, but you jumped the gun by a bit. Verrkol has not posted anything really scummy from what I have seen, but then again neither has Polantaris. Polantaris just seems to be better at explaining and defending himself.

I agree with pretty much everything Kyrastri; has said so far. Luv's ability is pretty dangerous, but at this point I'm afraid we would risk containing a townie and losing a neutral at the same time.

LuvDWayULie Wrote:Wait what? Leaving too much details? I friggin posted my entire rephrased PM, and I decided to use my powers today. Oh well, Iccan't defend myself as I have an exam today. So be it.

VerrKol Wrote:I am required to spread your plague or die each and every night. This means an exponential increase in the rate of infection.

LuvDWayULie Wrote:Yes, Niernen. I have no choice. My role has been exposed. I'll die either by myself or the mafia killing me..

LuvDWayULie Wrote:Well, it's quite inevitable in Day 2... You all voted against me, so I had to expose myself to keep myself alive.

faonkarino Wrote:So, first of all, I'm really surprised no one noticing me vanish. I had some issues, and... Yeah. Good thing not removing my vote on Birds didn't get him killed. I'm also surprised and have a rather pleasant feeling about Niernen defending me, but oh well. What's "chock full of knowledge" supposed to mean, by the way? :f6:

ANYWAY. Yeah, Chaz was a different (and buffed) sort of redirector plus some other things, as I suspected there would be. Maybe that means there are no bus drivers.

And LuvD is a arsonist-cultist-terrorist-vote-neutral thing? I wonder why the mafia didn't kill him yet, even more so after voicing his support to the town (not likely he had any choice anyway.) We gotta pay attention to that.

Well, besides all that, I'll have to leave you with a small, not-very-useful post. Hopefully I'll come with something more substantial later on.

(By the way, why would someone have such a terrible restriction with NO boons whatsoever? Seems fishy.)

faonkarino Wrote:AND I ALSO FORGOT THE GODDAMN NOTES. Ok, I swear, I'm going to create a MS Word document right now and save it on my desktop. Geez.

Or maybe I should put it inside my dropbox since I actually change computers quite a bit.

CakesXD Wrote:I do find it quite suspicious that both Polantaris and VerrKol jumped right on Luv after seeing him as a possible threat, and I've also noticed that Polantaris has been quite aggressive in this game. Maybe a bit too aggressive...

LuvDWayULie Wrote:Polantaris;, I dunno if you have read my previous post, but if you haven't, I just wanna say a few things to you. Why would I be lying? I was already at the brink of being lynched in Day 2, and if I didn't read the post (I was asleep, mind you), I would have died just like that. But no, I didn't, and I have already exposed my role as a worm. I'm not hiding anything! Why would I hide, when I literally exposed my night actions today? I find it troubling that you do not believe me. Maybe it's because of my actions today, which I admit I was lost, and I wanted this to be done ASAP.

I'm surprised myself too, Polantaris. Two vote-influencing powers, and I do die after I vote for someone. I guess xBTAx or Vlad made it that way. Infect as many as possible? I didn't know that, I swear. None of that (You have to spread to others or you die) was written in my PM. I have absolutely no idea. My first target was Shidoshi, remember? He died before he even got the chance to post the next day, and I lost the chance to know what happened exactly.

Kyrastri Wrote:I'd imagine, that at the very least, given he survives up to a point he'll quickly reach a majority in votes and can essentially execute someone on the spot. That would be a very OP power without severe consequences, so I wouldn't focus on this too much.

Polantaris Wrote:Gigantor post incoming.



We literally have nothing to go on except your word to that degree, and a "I can't defend myself" makes you look even worse. VerrKol says that your ability has forced him to spread your virus. How do we know that's not true?



(Not directed at VerrKol) Do you seriously expect us to believe that you knew nothing about this before you chose someone? Seems to me a pretty big piece of the puzzle to leave out. Of course VerrKol could be lying, but if you really are going to die after using it (which has to be true or you're killing yourself anyway considering how often you bring it up), I find it less likely.

(Directed at VerrKol) So let me ask...are you required to vote for someone? If not, and you really were targeted by Luv, that means that Luv is a liar.



That's...honestly...wrong. If your ability is as weak as you claimed in your original reveal post, it's nearly nothing in comparison to the many other powers that we've already noticed that could be far more problematic for the Mafia. It's far more likely that you'd force someone to lynch a townie than a mafia member. I'm sorry but if you think you're the prime target for mafia killing, you're wrong.



See, honestly...I don't think you exposed anything all that great. On Day 1, you made a mention of how awesome your power was. Forcing a vote is awesome? Whoopdie do da day. That's a pretty weak power. Another reason to not believe you now.



To be fair, the last time we made a mention of you disappearing you made a big deal about timezones and all that jazz (and it seemed a little aggressive if you ask me).

As to why Luv wasn't killed by the mafia last night; It could simply be because MasPan was suspected to have a far greater power due to the rhyming issue. That's not to say I don't suspect Luv anymore, I think there's all kinds of wrong going on in relation to him.

Is the parenthesis comment in relation to Meta?



I use Excel myself, and Dropbox is a great idea. Just random thoughts.



I'm being aggressive because we actually have information this game. Last game was a mess, and that cop situation just made things go out of control. Like 50% of the posts were from myself, Luv, and Kyra...and none of us were mafia...so there was really nothing to go on. The first thing I did when I subbed in the Two Island Mafia game was call out Zelkova, who was the grandfather of the mafia. Extremely aggressive, don't you think? I go with what's given to me.

This game there's all kinds of stuff going on and everyone for the most part is keeping active enough to be able to determine information about them. I'm logical, and this game logic is on my side. It may not be the logic I want but I still have things to go off of this time.

I adamantly do not believe that Luv's power is so weak when we have a prime example of a vastly superior power that also does exactly the same thing and more in our most recent lynch's file. It makes absolutely no logical sense to me. Something was left out of Luv's role claim. He may be telling the truth, but I do not believe that he's telling the whole truth.



Why wouldn't you lie? You roleclaimed when it was still in the air what was going on with Niernen's forced vote (unless I missed something). You could have easily been trying to make people connect that situation to you. It just so happens that Chaz has that ability and got lynched. Does it seem that farfetched? I think not.

Hell, if you're mafia, one of the other mafiaosos could have easily told you to make that kind of play. Just because you yourself may not have thought of it doesn't mean one of them didn't.

And how convenient for you to happen to have targeted the same person who died that night.



Except that he insists that he knew nothing about the spreading part. So why would he have ever thought this ability was amazing? His "reveal" stinks, and I don't like it.



[SUMMARY EDIT]
Not going to edit my whole post, because I'm kind of in two places in regards to Luv as the posts were read.

Essentially, my point is this:
Luv's claim, when he made it, was just, "I can infect one person, who will copy my vote if I vote, but I die if I vote." That's a weak ass power. That's identical to Chaz's at the first part. The difference, according to this description, is that Chaz gets to bus driver their target as well, while Luv dies from using it. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

Now, as of early Day 3, Luv gets called out by VerrKol for infecting him and forcing him to infect others in following nights. Why would this be left out of Luv's PM? It wouldn't be. That's what changes Luv's power from being a pile of dogpomegranate to an acceptably decent power.

Because of this, I believe that Luv lied about not knowing about the infection part. I call bullpomegranate. Therefore, why would he leave this portion out, unless he wants to trick us? He's unsafe to the town, and above that I'm not so sure I believe that his roleclaim is even legitimate.

For why the mafia won't lynch Luv:
We still have almost definitely a doctor, a cop, and who knows what else going around. They have far better targets to worry about. A forced lynch isn't that big of a deal to them. Why? Because unless the mafia is really screwing up, it's a total guess. There's significantly low chances that Luv would actually choose someone mafia, and if he were 100% certain someone was mafia they'd probably get lynched normally anyway. It's all guessing.

Niernen Wrote:Polantaris; I can't give you enough 's It is pretty convinent for Luv's power to have targeted Shidoshi and him getting killed. He previously stated that he wanted to control the town votes by going after Shidoshi. Controlling the town is not really something someone pro-town would do, especially when we have no idea who the mafia are. If everyone is forced to vote, there will be little scum hunting to actually find the mafia.

LuvDWayULie; I'm hgaving a hard time believing you did not know anything about the spread part of your power now Luv. Chaz's ability killed him if he did not use it, but his let him control the vote and power, which makes it a very strong ability. You said yours lets you infect a player and control their vote, but you die if you vote. That seems very underpowered comparatively. The only way the death part would make sense is if you could infect multiple people, which you keep denying. You also said your power was a worm, and worms infect things, not to mention your "neutral" faction is the Intruders.

Edit: need to read after polantari's posts, the rest where not there when i was typing this.

VerrKol Wrote:Polantaris; There was no mention of Luv directly but it's obvious it was him and he's even admitted it. My PM says nothing about him controlling my vote and the post you quoted is the entirety of my knowledge. However, I strongly suspect based on the previous vote control role that vote changes are only calculated by Vlad. The controlled victim votes normally, but Vlad counts it without mentioning it. Thus the vote influence only matters if it changes the results. This could apply to Kyrastri's power as well.

I did however clarify something with Vlad (BTA). I am only required to attempt to spread the plague. There's a loophole here that I can use to avoid actually infecting anyone.

While I still consider Luv to be a threat, I think we should consider returning to mafia hunting rather than lynch a confirmed neutral at this time.

If the loophole fails and I die tonight or we can't identify a mafia, kill the basterd. But I don't think there's a need to force his possible kamikaze attack at this stage.

PS I'm not going to change my current vote since I'm on mobile but I no longer consider Luv an immediate threat especially if he infects no one tonight which should be easy to verify.

Niernen Wrote:Hm, okay. I hope you can figure something out with that loop hole tonight then and we can leave Luv aside unless something changes. So, if we are going to move on, as I said before, I don't think containing Holypie is fair as he can't respond yet. We'll see what he has to say when he gets his internet fixed (if he is still gone by day 4 though we may have to consider him). I would like Olsi; and CakesXD; to post more if possible because we have not heard much from them. meta does have her post restriction, but it does seem she is +/-1 posts she agrees/disagrees with like Mas was doing. meowmixx; has been active, but their posts have not really been to useful from what I saw.

ChaoticCJ; I don't think I missed it, so who was that 4th neutral you mentioned earlier? Chaz, Luv and TheBirds is only 3.

VerrKol Wrote:Polantaris; There was no mention of Luv directly but it's obvious it was him and he's even admitted it. My PM says nothing about him controlling my vote and the post you quoted is the entirety of my knowledge. However, I strongly suspect based on the previous vote control role that vote changes are only calculated by Vlad. The controlled victim votes normally, but Vlad counts it without mentioning it. Thus the vote influence only matters if it changes the results. This could apply to Kyrastri's power as well.

I did however clarify something with Vlad (BTA). I am only required to attempt to spread the plague. There's a loophole here that I can use to avoid actually infecting anyone.

While I still consider Luv to be a threat, I think we should consider returning to mafia hunting rather than lynch a confirmed neutral at this time.

If the loophole fails and I die tonight or we can't identify a mafia, kill the basterd. But I don't think there's a need to force his possible kamikaze attack at this stage.

PS I'm not going to change my current vote since I'm on mobile but I no longer consider Luv an immediate threat especially if he infects no one tonight which should be easy to verify.

ChaoticCJ Wrote:Okay, playing a little catch up here...

About Luv: If he is "Intruders," I doubt that the faction would have a different winning condition for each member, and since TheBirds statement and Chaz's death has confirmed they are not a harm to the town or mafia, they are just being used as manipulator to whichever side wants to win.

Here is the way I see it:

1. MetaSeraphim - The restriction seem very town-ish. No night ability does seem strange,but since Meta was likely blocked(no one has said otherwise) I don't think we have a concern.
2. Niernen - Chaz's ability protected him from suspicion, but...
3. ChaoticCJ - Make assumptions as you will.
4. VerrKol - Seems suspicious and is a target of Luv
7. Polantaris - ? seems to help town, but strange votes
9. LuvDWayULie - Neutral for knowing about the faction, but whose power seem suspect.
10. Holypie - Was blocked on night 1, since blocker is probably mafia, assumption is townie
11. TheBirds - Neutral, assumption is from Chaz
12. CakesXD - ?
13. Kyrastri - Likely townie because of ability and openness
14. faonkarino - ?
16. Olsi - ?
17. meowmixx - Was open to Kyrastri's ability not knowing the consequences, keep an eye on, but others are more important

Given this information, I feel like we still don't know enough about the ones with the "?," so it may be best to get as much information as we can from them.

_____

As for the neutral thing, I was going to say who had hinted at neutral, but I thought it best not to say unless they say it themselves or are in danger of being lynched. I know this puts me in a bit of a risky situation, but for the towns sake, unless they specifically want to say, it is probably better to keep the mafia guessing (although they could probably find it themselves if they looked).

Edit:
Polantaris said it best for CakesXD, Olsi, and faonkarino.

meowmixx Wrote:Niernen; sorry if my posts aren't the best in ur prospective. im trying really hard, honest.

i still hold my stink eye on faon tho. but im not going to push my beliefs to anyone. just voicing my suspicions i guess