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Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Printable Version

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Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Shippo the Fox - 2011-04-29

Damn this peach Nightna.

Now she has me doing it too:

http://oldmanclub.co.cc/asps/act5/battlemage.html?MBf0308wlljJlllNlEmwilllllllllillllilil1I1Siliillliil1Ii1iSQiIQliliFGH

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - IllegallySane - 2011-04-29

DualReaver Wrote:[COLOR="green"]For the sake of it, put the defense and survivability to higher than 5, cause it's true of all Saders.

That'll make it pretty much perfect.[/COLOR]

Alrighty. Will do.

ElectricSix Wrote:About the only thing I see to change at the moment is Summoner's soloability. I think that should probably be gold unless you have some reason you only rated it 5.

Sure, I'll change it. I made it 5 because I wasn't sure if Ancient Dungeons are hard enough that even for a Summoner soloing an Ancient is tough or not.



Also, got M. Mech and Brawler charts up. I thought AoE and Flashiness was too low, so I amped both up one notch. Potential Offense was taken down a bit since you said you noticed little difference with a +11 claw.

Brawler
[Image: DFOSub-classchartBrawler.png]


M. Mech
[Image: DFOSub-classchartMaleMech.png]



I figured M. Mechs are a whee bit more beginner friendly than F. Mechs since they don't have to constantly maintain G-Series up, and are less button mashy since they're more about mass spamming Landrunners than anything else.
*Knocked M.Mech Offense down one notch, because M. Mechs can't have a synergized G-Series like F. Mechs, which not only lasts longer than theirs, but should probably deal more sustained damage as well.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - CrimsonJohnny - 2011-04-29

Started a F.Mech since it sounded cool and I needed something else to do when my ranger was out of FP. At first it was tedious...then I stopped being dumb and learned how G-1 works.

 Spoiler

I can't wait for G-2.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Mark - 2011-04-29

These look nice.

I'd bump down M. Exorcist's survivability and MP though. Only defense M.Exos get is from their cloth, and a couple mistakes and you'll be lookin' at a Life Token. They also rip through MP like crazy unless you spend money on MP regen.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - IllegallySane - 2011-04-29

Mark Wrote:These look nice.

I'd bump down M. Exorcist's survivability and MP though. Only defense M.Exos get is from their cloth, and a couple mistakes and you'll be lookin' at a Life Token. They also rip through MP like crazy unless you spend money on MP regen.

Even considering all their slows/launches/Black Tortoise holds they should be bumped down a bit in Survivability? Just trying to make sure I'm understanding it right.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Mark - 2011-04-29

Skasa, Headless Knight, Tauminator, Borodin, Aegis, Cinder, Wardy, Shred, and GT care not for silly amulets and sticky pooches.

I dunno, it's good against most monsters, but some bosses just swat you dead like a pesky fly.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - ElectricSix - 2011-04-29

Eh I don't have much experience with higher level content, but far past the point where other classes need to party to complete dungeons well, summoners continue to solo. I mean, given enough time, a good summoner can clear almost any dungeon with few/no hits, and very little cost. Obviously there are some classes that can clear dungeons better/faster, but usually they're the ones that require a fair amount of funding to do what a summoner can do with little to no funding.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Shippo the Fox - 2011-04-29

BTW, Tay.

Going to kill you for never mentioning Stabbing Wheel becoming a mobbing move.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Tay - 2011-04-29

Shippo the Fox Wrote:BTW, Tay.

Going to kill you for never mentioning Stabbing Wheel becoming a mobbing move.

:333333333
Stabbing Wheel few mobs -> Double Smash them into oblivion.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - MariettaRC - 2011-04-29

Shippo the Fox Wrote:BTW, Tay.

Going to kill you for never mentioning Stabbing Wheel becoming a mobbing move.

*blink* It wasn't before? :f6: Unless I'm mistaking what you meant, which I probably am.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Capricorn - 2011-04-29

Asura

Offense: 3/5 - Fixed damage is limiting.

Potential Offense: 2/5 - Int stacking, and upgrades will only do so much. Int stacking for fixed damage, and upgrades for your NWS, GO, and GQ. Latter two of which almost no one levels, and NWS is partial fixed too anyways.

Defense: 3/5 - Even with plate any damage hurts.

Attack Range: 4/5 - Half screen reach.

Single Target Damage: 3/5 - It's okay, just not amazing.

Survivability: 5/5 - Spam waves in any general direction. From afar. Also lolevasion, I can just guard away most of GT's missiles and they'd miss me.

MP Efficiency: 3/5 - Seriously speaking, it's not that bad. It's just me.

Solo Ability: 3/5 - Average damage results in average time for average class.

Beginner Friendliness: 5/5 - Good class for beginners since it's real cheap with strong skills

Class Activeness: 2/5 - Not combo based at all, so there's really not much to this play style honestly.

Party Support: 4/5 - Hold/Freeze/Mob everything.

Flashiness: 1/5 - I even use mod packs since they're not that amazing honestly.

Affordability: 5/5 - You should only get weapons for the status procs anyways meaning this is pretty affordable for anyone starting. I even recommend the useless quest weapons you get from Kargon since fixed damage does the rest etc. Unless it's a shortsword with wave mani or something with an amazing magic base, and of course short swords are in constant demand really.

It's really because of all the fixed damage. As long as elemental waves are acquired there will always be an available measure of damage. Hell, even PvP spec'd asuras would do decently in PvE because of this. If you want other references for asuras, Hervey and BiteTheDust at DFOS are probably decent. I think.

For P. Exo I pretty much agree on all statements here.

I'unno why you think Reapers are more flashy than P. Exos though really. But their damage potential and offense is 5/5 for both, definitely a class worthy of gold investment here. Even with just kazan and breman, check out that damage. Also range should 5/5, since fullscreengrabtrolol, zones, and kalla.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Tay - 2011-04-29

Here I made a video.

[video=youtube;AwHNLhR6Y5Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwHNLhR6Y5Q[/video]

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - IllegallySane - 2011-04-29

Defense 3/5 for Asuras? Dunno, because plate armor is as tough as you can get. As for Reapers being flashier, well while P. Exos get huge sex numbers Reapers get dem ghosts, and lots of em too. Saya freeze is just sexy in my opinion. Okay, gotta update the Asura and Bender charts later.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Capricorn - 2011-04-29

Even so, compared to an exo or sadar they are notably weaker. They even have a pretty useless armor mastery that doesn't help to contribute defense at all unlike exos. Where the exos have more defense, and hp. Sadars in contrast cannot die, unless you want to die so you can active Spiritual Sacrifice to recover a weakened party.

Of course, this is just natural defense. Only an idiot wouldn't guard an incoming attack since this is a moderately ranged class, but of course that's an issue of skill rather than inherent stats. But if we go along that route of discussion, again glorious evasion and perfect guard for another rune at the enemies' expense.

This is a really tank class as you can see, but it comes from dodging attacks (hurrrpassiveevasionandequips) and timed guards to really make it effective. The inherent defense is just a fallback to a fallback for failing your guard and/or when your passive fails. lolgrabs though, I KNOW YOU CAN SEE THIS SERA SCREW YOU I HATE YOUR MOUNT QQQQQQ

IllegallySane Wrote:Defense 3/5 for Asuras? Dunno, because plate armor is as tough as you can get. As for Reapers being flashier, well while P. Exos get huge sex numbers Reapers get dem ghosts, and lots of em too. Saya freeze is just sexy in my opinion. Okay, gotta update the Asura and Bender charts later.

Guess flashiness is pretty subjective then as well.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Piggy 2.0 - 2011-04-29

Reaper defense should be bumped down just a tad, since if keiga goes down during a critical moment, uded. No exceptions.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Capricorn - 2011-04-29

should remain the same, because you got hit without ghoststep is pretty much your fault really

i mean really, you have DERPSTEP2SAVEYOU jesus

not to mention that the duration is twice of that of the CD, no excuses to not have it on in pve, but it's still cloth though so you're pretty vulnerable for like the beginning of every dungeon casting it for the first time i.e. frostfield

you can get it hitstunned off....like skasa's screaming i guess, it's bloody plate armor defenses though for about 11 hits though but then you would probably die before keiga would run out then in the endgame dungeons considering the damage

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Dual - 2011-04-29

Mark Wrote:These look nice.

I'd bump down M. Exorcist's survivability and MP though. Only defense M.Exos get is from their cloth, and a couple mistakes and you'll be lookin' at a Life Token. They also rip through MP like crazy unless you spend money on MP regen.

Agreed. Despite the fact that they are good at preventing things from hitting them, it only takes one or two hits to knock them down to like 50% HP. And even with my Mexo geared out to MP regen I still eat through MP, albeit less than Mark's in exchange for slightly less damage from intwhoring.

Capricorn Wrote:Even so, compared to an exo or sadar they are notably weaker. They even have a pretty useless armor mastery that doesn't help to contribute defense at all unlike exos. Where the exos have more defense, and hp. Sadars in contrast cannot die, unless you want to die so you can active Spiritual Sacrifice to recover a weakened party.

Agreed. Plate armor doesn't help Asuras as much as it should. And lol deadsadergetsallhishealsback :V

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Dredragon - 2011-04-29

How is monk's soloability so low? I can solo fine, gathering is so easy man.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - Mark - 2011-04-29

Because some dungeons are just a nightmare for Monks. Monks are pretty much unable to solo higher level dungeons unless you're geared out the ass.

Original General Dungeon Fighter Thread - IllegallySane - 2011-04-29

3/5 for solo doesn't mean they're bad, it means they're average; you gotta pay attention to what you're doing, but it doesn't mean you can't solo at all. A 1 means they can't solo to save their life, and a 2 means they could solo, but it's too much of a pain to do so. 4/5 means they have a noticeable advantage at soloing, 5/5 means you can pretty much faceroll at soloing, and 6/5 means you have absolutely no excuse to be bad at soloing.

*Made changes to Asura and Bender. Jacked up Bender damage by 1 (5/5), potential offense to 4/5 (since ghosts help with most of the boosting, but upgrading weapon and getting Bender equipment to boost ghost levels higher makes them have the potential to be very strong. If more skills were %-based for Bender I'd give 5/5, but about half are fixed damage, although delicious fixed damage). Attack range moved to 4/5 because they still gotta get close to the monster to cast their circles, and dem Tombstones.


Here's adjusted Asura.
[Image: DFOSub-classchartAsura.png]




So the following are pretty much addressed/acknowledged as just about right:
Grappler
Brawler
M. Exo
P. Exo
Asura
Bender
Battle Sader


Others still need to be looked at/reviewed. Gonna go re-look at F. Mech/Zerker/Striker/Summoner/Nen Master to see if something is too low/high.