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Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Printable Version

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Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - MountLag - 2013-04-17

Speaking of tele, one thing to note is that all keys are blocked during BaM's hyper. No potions, no tele, and heck even chat is blocked.
So trying to tele will probably result in a noticeable dps loss in that case.


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Chilly - 2013-05-06

My brother brought something to my attention today during his latest rant regarding his lackluster Hypers, namely Lightning Sphere. He contends that at the moment, with a damage cap, there is a threshold that Lightning Sphere becomes useful. My response was, "Wait, what? Lightning Sphere isn't useful all the time?"

I then remembered someone here said that due to the cap, LS is useful once it outperforms the capped Chain Lightning + Glacier Chain combo. Thinking about that, I guess it made sense so I agreed with him on that. Then after asking a few more questions, he guided me, very Socratically, to the conclusion that after Unlimited, LS will be inferior in nearly all realms against CL + GC.

I did some rudimentary math and I had to agree because over that 8 second period of time:
At Fastest(2) 2CL + GC: (8s / ((2 * 600ms) + 810ms)) * ((2*1400%) + 2380%) = 20617%
LS: (RoundDown(8s / 270ms)) * 700% + 1000% (Finsher) = 21300%

Edit: The first draft had me using only one CL, which I learned is impossible unless I round the CL + GC time to 1500ms; unrounded at 1410ms, that gave a value of 21447% over the 8 seconds. This resulted in my initial conclusion, but even though the revised value for 2CL + GC is lower than LS...

I didn't even do any of the fancy calculations adding in the 25% bonus Critical of CL, CL's 20% Hyper, GC's 40% DEF Ignore or DoT. Even more, brother informs me now that he's practiced a bit, on slow or immobile bosses, he can easily wedge Teleport Masteries not only between successive CL's but also CL -> GC and vice-versa, so there's even more damage unaccounted for.

Edit: I also didn't account for the 960ms startup on LS, I don't really know how I am supposed to apply that, if I shave it off the 8 seconds, then LS is even more "always worse" than 2CL + GC at 19200% over the 8 seconds. I also don't know if Booster affects that, so I just left it alone, no point in beating it even more.

Don't get me wrong, I've watched LS in action and it is pretty cool hitting all 8 parts of HT at once, 8 Arms of Zakum or netting those Witches in Dimensional Invade, but it's one of only three or four Hypers that might be (depending on the accuracy of my math) detrimental to DPS. Not to mention the hilarious rage (as a spectator) when you watch someone set everything up only to be Seduced, Stunned, need to move to get out of something's way or DR is cast.


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - hadriel - 2013-05-06

GC-CL combo has a necessary 1500ms downtime due to a physical delay of GC. I'm not sure which skill table you use, because if it's the current GMS one the numbers are 200%*6 for CL and 340%*6 for GC. Either ways, GC-CL is superior to CL-GC-CL in terms of DPS.

As for LS, I would say that it is very situational. JoeTang could tell you more in terms of the intricacies, but do not forget that the value of LS also lies in the 10m damage cap (yes yes... "value"...). Numbers do show that LS might be a touch detrimental to DPS, but it has a good range after all so use it as you deem fit e.g. HT.

Hadriel


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2013-05-06

At speed cap, it's detrimental to DPS.


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Arrol - 2013-05-16

So, how do BaMs fare now?


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - tecul1 - 2013-05-16

I don't think he'll do the %/s util it's officially released.

Maybe he will, though.


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - MountLag - 2013-05-16

If the new Hyper combo is assumed to be 690ms for at speed cap, the new version is stronger.
It's definitely faster than what the data shows and also faster than Finishing Blow + Battleking Bar in that dojo video.


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2013-05-16

Since they completely redid Battle Mages, I need to create a new file for them if I want to maintain compatibility with other versions. It'll take a bit longer than usual, I'll be doing the other jobs first.

In the mean time:
Evan:
 Spoiler
 Teleport
 Sharp Eyes
 Hyper



Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - tecul1 - 2013-05-16

Oh yay.

Pineapple :]


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2013-05-17

Battle Mage:
 Spoiler
 Teleport
 Sharp Eyes
 No Twister Spin
 Hyper


Preliminary Battle Mage. Using 810ms chain delay for Prime Blow and 900ms for Another Blow. Looks like it's a bit faster than that judging by some videos though (less than 1 second for Prime + Another), but I'm not sure by how much. Could be possible there's a new speed cap given the fact that Refine Green + Body Boost + Booster = -5 weapon speed, or there's just a different way the delays are cut for these skills. I'll look into making one when they're released to test myself, but I won't be able to reach 170 for Another Blow. Hypers use Primal Blow's, and Teleport Reinforce. Twister Spin looks detrimental for Hyper, but beneficial before it since Prime Blow is 1260ms when it can't chain to Another Blow? Again, I can't really tell with so little information.

They have 70% minimum critical damage and 50% max until you get Battle Master. I just noticed that the original Battle Mage tables were missing Battle Rage's effects, so I've updated those as well.


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2013-05-20

Battle Mage:
 Spoiler
 Teleport
 Sharp Eyes
 No Twister Spin
 Hyper

Revision of the Battle Mage attack speeds using 480ms fast attack delay and 390ms fast attack chain delay for Prime Blow and 450ms fast attack delay for Another Blow, from the information provided in the data. This appears to be consistent with videos showing how stupidly fast they attack.


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Mazz - 2013-05-20

Holy f'uck, new Battle Mage is strong. :f6:


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Arrol - 2013-05-20

Umm, did BaM ever hit over 100k% before this?


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Takebacker - 2013-05-20

Refine green is -2, body boost makes it -4, and booster is -1, isn't it?


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2013-05-20

Takebacker Wrote:Refine green is -2, body boost makes it -4, and booster is -1, isn't it?

Yes, thank you.


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - GeistesblitZ - 2013-05-22

is there any purpose to using the Hand skills for BaM, or did they really just create BRAND NEW obsolete skills?


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - MountLag - 2013-05-22

The fists hit farther than the new PB + AB combo.


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2013-05-23

Evan:
 Spoiler
 Teleport
 Sharp Eyes
 Hyper

Old Evan. OP has the latest version.


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - hadriel - 2013-05-23

I'm guessing you're not going to get around to investigate Memorize double-switching for Luminous?

Hadriel


Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2013-05-31

I'll try to get to it after I've done all this KMST stuff.

Fire-Poison Archmage:
 Spoiler
 Teleport
 Sharp Eyes
 No Mist Eruption
 Hyper

Meteor Shower Final Attack is assumed to only activate on one target per attack. Ignite is assumed to stack. Slime Virus and Flame Haze only affects a single target, and only affect Mist Eruption's single target damage.
Elemental Drain's effect is actually +x% total damage per dot effect. Total Damage is assumed to affect DoTs now, as per the patch notes.
Since the loss of Fire Demon, Big Bang, and Meteo's dots, you require Megiddo Flame and Flame Gear to reach max Mist Eruption, and you require other people's dots to reach max Mist Eruption for multitargets.
The most noteable change is the massive boost to high defense damage, since DOTs ignore defense, and are affected by Total Damage/Infinity, unless this has changed.

If things stay relatively unchanged, I'll likely be making an F/P when this patch goes live and investigating things personally.