Eliseo Wrote:You are literally complaning that the lightsaber duel wasn't the same as a 63 year old trained Jedi Master against a 40 something Sith Lord compared to a Fallen Padawan with a hole on his torso from a Crossbow that literally sent stormtroopers away using a cross guard unstable lightsaber against a girl with nothing but The Force and some basic -staff- training? Okay fine, let's ignore all the context, why not.

There is no middle ground on the Kylo Ren actor though, I liked a lot how he wasn't the perfect villain just yet and that he wasn't a model.

KhainiWest Wrote:Anakin was ANGRY, Luke was ARROGANT, Kylo is EMO, really, really bad choice, maybe I've watched too much naruto

Eliseo Wrote:I will give up on this franchise the day we see a duel with 50foot tall force ghosts against a mystical 100foot tall beast.

I gotta say man, you are also trying so hard to hate the duel. It wasn't going to be a perfect vs., that was the entire point to it.

KhainiWest Wrote:I disagree, as it was consistent with the entire movie, the guy literally just has to 'complete' his training, what, was the last step of his training is not to wield his lightsaber like Cloud from final fantasy?

VerrKol Wrote:Part of the reality here is that the prop sabers used ARE heavy. The weighting is obviously completely different than a real sword, but not trivial. Abrams opted to use very similar sword fight choreography to the OT and the old props themselves. Go back and watch those movies and you'll see tons of huge two handed swings. If you disliked those fights, I bow to your consistency. The fast swipes you see from Ben v Vader are the mark of masters testing each other for weaknesses.

I agree with a lot of the criticism here, but the reality is we just don't know the extent of KR's training with Luke or Snoke. Would it be dumb to let him run around while he's this wimpy instead of Luke beat him without even touching a lightsaber? Definitely, but possible.

As a villain, I agree that KR is pretty lacking. His motivation for joining the dark side is thin at best, but this is a chronic problem with Star Wars films. The Sith are either uniformly evil for evil reasons like Sidius and Maul or come across as whiny, angsty brats. KR apparently wants to be his grandfather, but WHY??? No one knows. If Snoke turns out to be Plagious, there's some real potential to add depth to a villain's back story.

Overall, I can't help but think of this as half a movie. It just doesn't stand up on it's own two legs. I think there's a decent possibility that VIII and even IX may prop it up in a lot of important ways.

 This is a spoiler, do not read if you dont want to be spoiled

KhainiWest Wrote:I have never seen any lightsaber fight where the person tried to CHOP through someone elses lightsaber, reading this though, it makes sense;

 This is a spoiler, do not read if you dont want to be spoiled

Eliseo Wrote:Fricking unstable lightsaber man! Fallen Jedi and all that.

It also mentions that his fighting form is unknown to the galaxy.

 Spoiler

If that is official info, it is of interesting note the mention of more Snoke apprentices.

Also, it is never mentioned in the movie Kylo Ren's intentions as being a dark side user. Here it clearly says how he believes it's his birth right.
Good stuff, if true.

Satellite Wrote:There's a theory about Kylo Ren, and I extended it with my own ideas of what's going to happen IF the theory has any truth in it:

 Spoiler

Remember when Kylo Ren/Ben Solo talks to Vaders helmet, "I'm going to finish... what you started." Most people assume this means he wants to become the next Vader. Doesn't make much sense, surely Leia and Han must've told him how Vader returned to the "light side"? Well, there's theor(ies) that by finishing what Vader started, he means killing Snoke (Plagueis?), just like Vader killed Sidious and bringing true balance to the force. He knows (or assumes) Snoke is weak, but he had to turn to the dark side to get himself where Snoke is. This is why he's feeling "torn apart" and constantly trying to keep the light side from showing through and trying to fuel the dark side with rage.

This is why he's having conflicting feelings before killing Han. Maybe he is actually able to get inside Han's mind there (he obviously has that ability) and tell him his true mission. This is why he says thank you to Han after piercing him with his lightsaber.

Now here's what I believe if that theory is true (and it does have a lot of holes in it): Kylo Ren is underestimating Snoke's knowledge of the force (doesn't realize that he's actually the most powerful Sith there has ever been). Snoke has foreseen Kylos plans and after asking for the First Order to bring Kylo to him, he's going to slaughter him in EP8. "Kylo Ren, your training is finished..." *tortures with force lightning to death*

After this it will be up to Ren, Finn, Luke and others to destroy Snoke and the First Order.

Satellite Wrote:There's a theory about Kylo Ren, and I extended it with my own ideas of what's going to happen IF the theory has any truth in it:

 Spoiler

Remember when Kylo Ren/Ben Solo talks to Vaders helmet, "I'm going to finish... what you started." Most people assume this means he wants to become the next Vader. Doesn't make much sense, surely Leia and Han must've told him how Vader returned to the "light side"? Well, there's theor(ies) that by finishing what Vader started, he means killing Snoke (Plagueis?), just like Vader killed Sidious and bringing true balance to the force. He knows (or assumes) Snoke is weak, but he had to turn to the dark side to get himself where Snoke is. This is why he's feeling "torn apart" and constantly trying to keep the light side from showing through and trying to fuel the dark side with rage.

This is why he's having conflicting feelings before killing Han. Maybe he is actually able to get inside Han's mind there (he obviously has that ability) and tell him his true mission. This is why he says thank you to Han after piercing him with his lightsaber.

Now here's what I believe if that theory is true (and it does have a lot of holes in it): Kylo Ren is underestimating Snoke's knowledge of the force (doesn't realize that he's actually the most powerful Sith there has ever been). Snoke has foreseen Kylos plans and after asking for the First Order to bring Kylo to him, he's going to slaughter him in EP8. "Kylo Ren, your training is finished..." *tortures with force lightning to death*

After this it will be up to Ren, Finn, Luke and others to destroy Snoke and the First Order.

VerrKol Wrote:I like the idea for it's complexity.

 Spoiler

While there's certainly a lot of similarity between Anakin/Vader and Ben/Kylo, I don't think anyone really wants another Vader. Turning KR into a unlawful good type has it's merits. I would love to see them bring back the prophecy as well, but with a new (or rather old but not Lucas approved) interpretation. KR could balance the force by learning both sides and thus defeat the last Sith, Snoke. I could see him sacrificing his father for this, which nicely contrasts with Anakin's unwillingness to sacrifice Padme, especially if he gets telepathic approval.

I'd love to see this kind of complex motivation for turning dark, but it seems unlikely as hell.

Quote:Star Wars: The Force Awakens added $28.1 million domestically and $36.7 million overseas on Wednesday for a total of $64.8 million for the day. The Lucasfilm release has now earned $629 million in North America and $664.1 million internationally for a worldwide total of $1.293 billion.

Star Wars: The Force Awakens has now become the highest-grossing film domestically in Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures history, incredibly passing in only 13 days the entire $623.4 million total gross of Marvel’s The Avengers from 2012. In North America, the film is already the #2 movie of 2015 and #4 movie of all-time. Internationally, Star Wars: The Force Awakens is already the #5 movie of 2015 to date. Globally, Star Wars: The Force Awakens is the #4 movie of 2015 to date and has now become the #8 movie of all-time (passing Frozen‘s $1.277 billion).

Eliseo Wrote:

 Spoiler

If he is to defeat the LAST Sith, he should also have to scratch off his list to kill the LAST Jedi.

I'm siding with Ben/Kylo believeing it's force users ruling over non force users as a birth right, something that can only be done with the darkside, while the Jedis only want to help, not dominate.
Anakin/Vader brought balance after millenia of conflict. I expect both sides to turn the tides in their favor now that balance was achieved.


Also, of note, the book "Before the Awakening" gives A LOT of backstory info about the characters and the way they are. Recommended.