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NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - Eyghon - 2014-06-21

Shion Wrote:Wait how is using a skill considered an exploit? Lol


I look at it in the same vein as hacking.

The user isn't actually, actively playing. He's exploiting the intended use of a skill, for character gain, but rather than play like you're supposed to, he simply pushes a button every few minutes while engaged in something else. What's the point?

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - Marksman Bryan - 2014-06-21

If this was in GMS you could just log a ticket requesting the policy of "seventh chance 4.0" to be enacted.

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - ponsez - 2014-06-21

kruimel0 Wrote:Oh really, you are defending him?

He knew he shouldn't use it because it was a forum post. That forum post got taken off, so naturally, he used the 'exploit'. A GM saw that, and gave him a warning; he said to not do it again, and that nobody else is allowed either.
The NEXT day, he says "screw it, I don't wanna listen to him", and uses what is an exploit in the eyes of the GM that warned him THE DAY BEFORE.

If you are too dumb to listen to people who can legitemately ban you, you deserve a ban, and a 30-day one is short at that.

There is a HUGE flaw with that logic that by the way is pretty much common sense. Anyways I will explain to you, what is the difference between a GM threathening to ban you if you dont stop using a Kanna as a Kishin Shoukan mule and a GM threathening to ban you if you dont give him/her your bank account details? Both are unwritten rules so they fall into the same category.

We already know that Nexon can ban you at anytime according to their ToS, but there is a reason why that rule is never enforced. You can put this excuse as much as you want, but i dont think getting ban due to this is deserved at all.

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - YennoX - 2014-06-21

ponsez Wrote:There is a HUGE flaw with that logic that by the way is pretty much common sense. Anyways I will explain to you, what is the difference between a GM threathening to ban you if you dont stop using a Kanna as a Kishin Shoukan mule and a GM threathening to ban you if you dont give him/her your bank account details? Both are unwritten rules so they fall into the same category.

We already know that Nexon can ban you at anytime according to their ToS, but there is a reason why that rule is never enforced. You can put this excuse as much as you want, but i dont think getting ban due to this is deserved at all.

Having multiple accounts in itself is a bannable offence.

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - ponsez - 2014-06-21

YennoX Wrote:Having multiple accounts in itself is a bannable offence.

Wrong. It isnt.

Its a pretty common misconception, but as long as you give your real information on all of them, you are allowed to have as many accounts as you want. This also applies to GMS btw.

Ofcourse if you play EMS, you cant go past the limit or you will get link banned. But that limitation is on how much accounts you can make over a period of time and not how many you can have.

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - Justin - 2014-06-21

YennoX Wrote:Having multiple accounts in itself is a bannable offence.

That was removed from the ToS years ago.

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - Dark Link - 2014-06-21

Eyghon Wrote:I look at it in the same vein as hacking.

The user isn't actually, actively playing. He's exploiting the intended use of a skill, for character gain, but rather than play like you're supposed to, he simply pushes a button every few minutes while engaged in something else. What's the point?

That still isn't an exploit. That's like saying I'm exploiting, or "hacking" as you view it, in WoW, because I'm actively pressing a button every few minutes to avoid the 15 minute AFK Logout system.

ponsez Wrote:Wrong. It isnt.

Its a pretty common misconception, but as long as you give your real information on all of them, you are allowed to have as many accounts as you want. This also applies to GMS btw.

Ofcourse if you play EMS, you cant go past the limit or you will get link banned. But that limitation is on how much accounts you can make over a period of time and not how many you can have.

I don't know how it can be a common misconception when it actually was a bannable offense years back before NexonNA removed it from the ToS, as Justin already mentioned.

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - EMSKakaoTalk - 2014-06-22

Eyon Wrote:If NexonEU would not agree with the GM's this thread would not be up still : http://forum.nexoneu.com/announcement.php?f=2&a=153
Also, GM's can't do stuff on their personal whim. They have NexonEU as their boss. You really think this is some rule some GM just made up, posted it on the forum and then started enforcing it without NexonEU's consent? I personally think not. If it actually is true, that would be sad.

I however see no evidence for this. As far as I can see now, people are just shooting the messenger.

I believe that announcement was for 41 level difference party bonus exp unintended feature? (I asked a GM about this announcement and this announcement was primarily concerned with the 41lvl differnce thing)

Where does it say that we cannot use kanna mule?

Irrelevant source.

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - Shion - 2014-06-22

Eyghon Wrote:I look at it in the same vein as hacking.

The user isn't actually, actively playing. He's exploiting the intended use of a skill, for character gain, but rather than play like you're supposed to, he simply pushes a button every few minutes while engaged in something else. What's the point?

[COLOR="#800080"]So I guess having a HSmule that only uses HS every 5mins is hacking aswell.. Theyre not doing anything.. Everyone outthere with a HS mule is a exploiter by you logic..

The point, my friend is maximising the experience and the leveling speed.. Something that you perhaps dont know since your chars are barely 13x [/COLOR]

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - DannyAKABobo - 2014-06-22

Shion Wrote:[COLOR="#800080"]So I guess having a HSmule that only uses HS every 5mins is hacking aswell.. Theyre not doing anything.. Everyone outthere with a HS mule is a exploiter by you logic..

The point, my friend is maximising the experience and the leveling speed.. Something that you perhaps dont know since your chars are barely 13x [/COLOR]
Must be the same people who wanted to nerf all the good training maps too because apparently, the other maps that had crappier EXP were "nonexistent."

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - Takebacker - 2014-06-22

ponsez Wrote:There is a HUGE flaw with that logic that by the way is pretty much common sense. Anyways I will explain to you, what is the difference between a GM threathening to ban you if you dont stop using a Kanna as a Kishin Shoukan mule and a GM threathening to ban you if you dont give him/her your bank account details? Both are unwritten rules so they fall into the same category.

We already know that Nexon can ban you at anytime according to their ToS, but there is a reason why that rule is never enforced. You can put this excuse as much as you want, but i dont think getting ban due to this is deserved at all.

I guarantee you there is a line in the GM contract that says you aren't allowed to ask them for or use their personal information including bank information. There is a line similar to this in almost every job contract ever, and it's probably a felony charge in the united states. It also SPECIFICALLY TELLS YOU IN GAME NOT TO GIVE GMs PERSONAL INFORMATION.

So no. That's not an unwritten rule at all.

ponsez Wrote:Wrong. It isnt.

Its a pretty common misconception, but as long as you give your real information on all of them, you are allowed to have as many accounts as you want. This also applies to GMS btw.

Ofcourse if you play EMS, you cant go past the limit or you will get link banned. But that limitation is on how much accounts you can make over a period of time and not how many you can have.

So..."having multiple accounts isn't a bannable offense in certain versions if you do it right"

So...if you do it wrong, it's a bannable offense in certain versions. So he isn't wrong.

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - ponsez - 2014-06-22

Dark Link Wrote:I don't know how it can be a common misconception when it actually was a bannable offense years back before NexonNA removed it from the ToS, as Justin already mentioned.

Yes, at closed beta.


Takebacker Wrote:I guarantee you there is a line in the GM contract that says you aren't allowed to ask them for or use their personal information including bank information. There is a line similar to this in almost every job contract ever, and it's probably a felony charge in the united states. It also SPECIFICALLY TELLS YOU IN GAME NOT TO GIVE GMs PERSONAL INFORMATION.

So no. That's not an unwritten rule at all.


It was an example. Also in fact, GMs can ask you for your info if you for example want to recover your account( even a scan of your ID card or similars), afterall at least on EMS, GMs are also customer support. They are pretty much allowed to ask you for information, despite that yellow notice ingame saying that GM will never ask for your info.

Takebacker Wrote:So..."having multiple accounts isn't a bannable offense in certain versions if you do it right"

So...if you do it wrong, it's a bannable offense in certain versions. So he isn't wrong.

But the reason isnt having multiple account. If you do it "wrong" what you are doing "wrong" isnt having multiple accounts.

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - Takebacker - 2014-06-22

ponsez Wrote:Yes, at closed beta.

No.

ponsez Wrote:But the reason isnt having multiple account. If you do it "wrong" what you are doing "wrong" isnt having multiple accounts.

In GMS there is an IP ban for logging on to more than 20ish accounts within a time frame.

So basically it's allowed to own 50 accounts, as many southperrians have posted that they own that many, "if you do it right" and don't log into them all within half an hour, right?

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - ponsez - 2014-06-22

Takebacker Wrote:No.

Yes, i played GMS during closed beta and before EMS was released and i know for sure that it was removed from their ToS during closed beta.

Takebacker Wrote:In GMS there is an IP ban for logging on to more than 20ish accounts within a time frame.

So basically it's allowed to own 50 accounts, as many southperrians have posted that they own that many, "if you do it right" and don't log into them all within half an hour, right?

owning accounts =/= logging onto X accounts during Y period of time. You can have as many accounts as you want, other thing is what you do with them.


Anyways lets stop with this as the thread isnt about accounts but an ingame feature.

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - Takebacker - 2014-06-22

ponsez Wrote:Yes, i played GMS during closed beta

I played GMS after closed beta and they changed the ToS multiple times after beta. Neither of us have proof besides memory for this. How unreliable.

ponsez Wrote:It was an example. Also in fact, GMs can ask you for your info if you for example want to recover your account( even a scan of your ID card or similars), afterall at least on EMS, GMs are also customer support. They are pretty much allowed to ask you for information, despite that yellow notice ingame saying that GM will never ask for your info.

A bad example. They can ask you information relevant to getting your account back, but they can't ask you for BANK INFORMATION. It's a written rule that neither party can request or give such info.

ponsez Wrote:owning accounts =/= logging onto X accounts during Y period of time. You can have as many accounts as you want, other thing is what you do with them.

Logging into X accounts during Y period of time is what you do with owning (multiple) accounts. It's also what you do if you're a "hacker".

I can have as many accounts as i want but i can't do what you're supposed to do with them? So i can't have as many accounts as i want unless i do it right, right?

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - IcyHaze - 2014-06-22

lol wth is that? EMS is enjoying superior rate compared to other MS due to copy/paste left over? That isn't true right? If EMS isn't, I honestly dunno where NexonEU is coming from for denying kishin.


That said, whoever that was in question deserve to be ban. If you feel it is "unfair" GM only caught you and talk to you warning against using kishin, by all means be a party pooper and go rat on others as the GM suggest. It is just plain retard to go by the logic why ban me when so many people are hacking too. Someone else doing something wrong doesn't mean you should be doing it too.

And yes, using kishin in this case is wrong. By all means petition for the usage of it, but until then, it is just silly to cry when GM "found" you.

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - EMSKakaoTalk - 2014-06-22

[Image: flcwoh.gif]

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - Takebacker - 2014-06-22

ponsez Wrote:Anyways lets stop with this as the thread isnt about accounts but an ingame feature.

This thread is about moderation of the game in general as well as in response to an in game feature. Logging in to multiple accounts is a feature right? Therefore bans for logging in to too many accounts is a moderation tool in response to an in game feature. This discussion is 100% on topic, especially because EMS and GMS handle this differently, just like they do kanna mules.

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - KhainiWest - 2014-06-22

Here's the problem with the argument;

Everyone and their mother will concede the skill should be changed to fit the standards of what the dev's expect it to actually do. However when you ask or rather, challenge it's existence, and the dev's explain it is not intentional, it is abuse, and exercise self restraint, only to challenge their authority to see if you can get away with it, you will and should get burned.

I don't agree with the management, but the fact you play a game with such ridiculous management, you kind of have to take some self responsibility when you get burned, the management is known for lack of consistency, personal responsibility and flat out told you to exercise self restraint, and you're now complaining about their process?

NexonEU rather ban players than adjusting an intended content - Tash - 2014-06-23

Due to the mechanics of Kishin, it's likely that EMS' in-house programmers can't mess with it without the risk of screwing something else up. Until KMS gets around to fixing it for them, all they can do is tell players to stop doing it.