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+---- Thread: How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald (/showthread.php?tid=69107)
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - KhainiWest - 2014-01-09
GraveJokerR Wrote:I just wonder if GameFreak is even considering a remake. I really hope we do get RSE remakes, though.
Gotta wonder, though. Would the battle frontier from Emerald be included? That would be a nice interesting touch.
With all the references and pushing about it in X/Y it's gurranteed imo.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - Remoir - 2014-01-09
nerf those gym leader twins.
Make Spinda good.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - SoR0XaS - 2014-01-09
Remoir Wrote:nerf those gym leader twins.
Make Spinda good.
Oh yeah.. Tate and Liza. Their combos were annoying af
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - xlxlxlxl - 2014-01-09
Malthe Wrote:I prefer weather being gimmicky over weather being the standard.
Weather wars were boring.
Nobody required you to run weather. Heck, more than half of the teams on showdown were weatherless near the end of BW2 OU.
Do you guys find XY OU to be fun? There's just so much less variety compared to BW2 and it the metagame boring to me.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - Kubi - 2014-01-09
This might just be me, but I don't play on showdown for their tier listing. I know how it's made and for their purpose, but overall I just play custom games and random battles with friends. On the occasion, I build teams just to test it out with random players.
With this generation, if weather was permanent, you'd see a lot of people abusing it all over wifi. I can only bet Nintendo won't restrict stuff like that other than their standard VGC rules. I can see permanent rain would be quite prominent as there are so many things that can abuse it now, 100% accuracy hurricane spam from Noivern and the swift swimmers for instance. It'd be annoying to counter anything that doesn't use weather themselves, and might just end up becoming the staple of the game. At least for X/Y, there is somewhat of a balance, and auto weather is more useful and viable in doubles/triples than it is in single battles, despite it not being permanent.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - Malthe - 2014-01-09
xlxlxlxl Wrote:Nobody required you to run weather.
All the top teams had to either run weather or have a way to stop/handle weather teams.
They were most definitely pineappleing rampant. It's just like stealth rock, sure nobody is forcing you to run them, but you sure as pineapple need every single team to be able to handle them.
If something is so good you can't ignore it, it becomes frustrating, not fun. Weather is now gimmicky, but not bad. You can still make weather work albeit a lot harder and not as effective as before.
XY OU is far more fun than BW2 OU was, so far anyway.
Just went to look at statistics:
In july of BW2 OU politoed remained in #3 spot for usage with Ttar at #8
Yeah, totally not rampant or anything.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - xlxlxlxl - 2014-01-09
Malthe Wrote:All the top teams had to either run weather or have a way to stop/handle weather teams.Of course top teams have ways to handle weather and SR and common pokemon: they obviously wouldn't be top teams if they couldn't.
They were most definitely pineappleing rampant. It's just like stealth rock, sure nobody is forcing you to run them, but you sure as pineapple need every single team to be able to handle them.
If something is so good you can't ignore it, it becomes frustrating, not fun. Weather is now gimmicky, but not bad. You can still make weather work albeit a lot harder and not as effective as before.
XY OU is far more fun than BW2 OU was, so far anyway.
Just went to look at statistics:
In july of BW2 OU politoed remained in #3 spot for usage with Ttar at #8
Yeah, totally not rampant or anything.
Every single pokemon in OU is "so good you can't ignore it" lol. That's why they're OU. You can't just ignore Pokemon and playstyles and expect to win matches. When something doesn't have proper checks or countermeasures it can be frustrating, I'll give you that. However Rain, Sand, Sun, Hail, Hyper-Offense, Stall, etc can all be handled with good teambuilding. The point I'm trying to make, which nobody has yet to refute, is that XY OU has much less team variety than BW2. Losing permanent weather, and the new defog mechanics, make Stall and Hyper Offense a heck of a lot less viable than they used to be. The only teams I tend to encounter in XY are bulky offense or balanced and it's become boring quite quickly.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - RedRaven16 - 2014-01-09
SoR0XaS Wrote:Oh yeah.. Tate and Liza. Their combos were annoying af
Wait you mean the trainers i just destoyed with my sharpedo?
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - Malthe - 2014-01-09
xlxlxlxl Wrote:The point I'm trying to make, which nobody has yet to refute, is that XY OU has much less team variety than BW2.
Give people time to experiment. There are new toys to play with that people are overusing, it's to be expected.
Also, there is a big difference between being in OU and being something that every single team needs to have a solution for. Reuniclus was OU but did in no way have as much usage nor did Reuniclus define BW OU the way a weather inducer like politoed did.
I am currently having far more fun in XY than in BW OU, if that's because i'm blinded by new toys and it will eventually become boring, i don't know. But for now i am quite happy. And i don't see myself getting bored of XY.
Not to mention tyranitar is still one of the most used mons in XY, so is excadrill.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - xlxlxlxl - 2014-01-09
Malthe Wrote:Also, there is a big difference between being in OU and being something that every single team needs to have a solution for. Reuniclus was OU but did in no way have as much usage nor did Reuniclus define BW OU the way a weather inducer like politoed did.If you don't have a solution for something, it's going to severly cripple or outright beat your entire team every time you see it. Every team didn't have a solution Reuniclus, but those same teams were losing to it at team preview. CM Reuniclus in particular was one of those pokemon that would beat your entire team if you didn't carry something to prevent it from setting up and/or something to 1-2HKO it. Lacking a check, counter, wall, or revenge killer for any pokemon used frequently enough to be OU is bad team building
Quote:Not to mention tyranitar is still one of the most used mons in XY, so is excadrill.Excadrill is one of the best rapid spinners in the game, if not the best. Mold Breaker is its most common ability by far, likely because of Rotom-W and extremely short duration of sandstorm.
TTar has been OU since GSC and gets buffed in one way or another every generation, I doubt he'll ever fall from OU hehe. Among many other things, TTar is a Talonflame check, a SR setter, a powerful pursuit user, a ghost resist, and a special wall (especially with assault vest). Unlike last generation, though, his sandstream provides much less support for pokemon other than himself (SpDef boost). So much less that building a team around it is gimmicky, at best. The same can be said about Politoed, Ninetales, Abomasnow, and MegaCharizard Y and their respective weathers.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - Niernen - 2014-01-09
Slowly drifting off topic here....
I wonder if they would make any changes in the story. I enjoyed Emerald's story more. I also am looking forward to the improved graphics for cut scenes. Having contests in come cities and those battle arena places would be interesting. Making Pokemon like Bagon and Feebas slightly easier to find.
Just remembered, but i hope they give pokeblocks some additional benefits like amie.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - Justin - 2014-01-09
Niernen Wrote:Slowly drifting off topic here....
I wonder if they would make any changes in the story. I enjoyed Emerald's story more. I also am looking forward to the improved graphics for cut scenes. Having contests in come cities and those battle arena places would be interesting. Making Pokemon like Bagon and Feebas slightly easier to find.
Just remembered, but i hope they give pokeblocks some additional benefits like amie.
They'll probably make it some weird mix, like they did with HG and SS. They threw in parts of the crystal storyline as well.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - KhainiWest - 2014-01-10
xlxlxlxl Wrote:If you don't have a solution for something, it's going to severly cripple or outright beat your entire team every time you see it. Every team didn't have a solution Reuniclus, but those same teams were losing to it at team preview. CM Reuniclus in particular was one of those pokemon that would beat your entire team if you didn't carry something to prevent it from setting up and/or something to 1-2HKO it. Lacking a check, counter, wall, or revenge killer for any pokemon used frequently enough to be OU is bad team building
I don't understand how you come to this conclusion. Look at mega kanga, it's ability made it so a fake out+ any neutral move would 1hko a monster. I'm not sure if you know how they define tiers and [MENTION=846]Corn[/MENTION]; can correct me, but it's based on essentially how it, percent wise, affects the major combatents in the metagame. That's why in random matches on smogon theres level scaling so that you don' win simply have a rayquaza on your team.
In this case, politoad's ability with swift swimmers became banned because mon's became necessary to counter it, a monster with 40+ positives and less than 5 negatives is going to have whatever strategy taken away. Talonflame, which I'm sure is on your mind as an example in this discussion, has plenty of counters, where it still adds team variety and balances him within the tier.
Weather teams meta was the worst meta I have ever experienced. There isn't a single counter that can affect a weather team, that a weather team hasn't already saved a slot to counter-counter. You're essentially trying to blame the ban/nerf on unexperienced players, when people who could play circles around you, notice, plural, decided on this because the game was considerably skewed. In fact so much so that the frekin company changed it.
xlxlxlxl Wrote:Excadrill is one of the best rapid spinners in the game, if not the best. Mold Breaker is its most common ability by far, likely because of Rotom-W and extremely short duration of sandstorm.
In current meta this is true, as is rotom-W pretty much the best defensive poke in the current mea, since physical attackers are so prominent which gives a major use to will o wisp.
xlxlxlxl Wrote:TTar has been OU since GSC and gets buffed in ne way or another every generation, I doubt he'll ever fall from OU hehe. Among many other things, TTar is a Talonflame check, a SR setter, a powerful pursuit user, a ghost resist, and a special wall (especially with assault vest). Unlike last generation, though, his sandstream provides much less support for pokemon other than himself (SpDef boost). So much less that building a team around it is gimmicky, at best. The same can be said about Politoed, Ninetales, Abomasnow, and MegaCharizard Y and their respective weathers.
He's a pseudo legendary, Dragonite has gotten major buffs since 5th gen. The meta game is going to drastically change with the release of pokebank and move tutor. Focus blast will be much more common for example. I don't understand the rest of this, you point out why TTar is a usable pokemon, but say that a team around it is gimmicky? You mean for his sandstorm ability? Weather abilities have become essentiall a buff for burst damage. In fact we should see more fire teams since charizard Y/Ninetails are both auto weathers.
To be honest I'm not sure if you understand how the metagame works, everyone with half a brain know that Goodra was specifically made for politoad rain support.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - Kubi - 2014-01-10
Permanent weather became more centralized in BW than you'd think, and I'd imagine it'd be worse in this generation and its changes. You'd probably see lots of people abusing weather or rage quitting over it on wifi. Players that had a permanent weather inducer had a great nudge over players that didn't. Just send out a Pokemon with it and you're good to go. Rain is still arguably the best weather out of the others imo. Good luck trying to dodge and survive Rotom wash's nuke powered Thunder and hydro pumps; even Blissey is 2-3 hit KO'ed by it under rain. Baton passing shell smash with Gorebyss would become easier, though I also think it's good enough to abuse rain and its own boosts.
Anyway, I wouldn't mind an RSE remake. But think we're expecting too much out of at least an expanded plot and content? If it stays the same for the most part, one of the themes might just be about weather again. It'd be at least another way to obtain the RSE legendaries.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - xlxlxlxl - 2014-01-10
KhainiWest Wrote:I don't understand how you come to this conclusion. Look at mega kanga, it's ability made it so a fake out+ any neutral move would 1hko a monster.Mega Kanga just got banned to ubers, but while it was OU, it was a pokemon that would beat you at Team Preview if you didn't have specific countermeasures for it. And even then, you usually had to sac something to take it out. Fake Out was pretty trashy. PuP, Return, Sucker Punch, Fire Punch/Crunch/Earthquake beats entire teams.
Quote: I'm not sure if you know how they define tiers and Corn; can correct me, but it's based on essentially how it, percent wise, affects the major combatents in the metagame. That's why in random matches on smogon theres level scaling so that you don' win simply have a rayquaza on your team.Why would you even say this if you're not sure yourself? OU is based solely on usage with a cutoff (usually top 50 most used). Ubers is OU's ban list, not tier in of itself. UU:BL::OU:Uber, RU:BL2::OU:Uber, etc. Random matches have nothing to do with this conversation, so why would you even mention them?
Quote:In this case, politoad's ability with swift swimmers became banned because mon's became necessary to counter it, a monster with 40+ positives and less than 5 negatives is going to have whatever strategy taken away.No, just no. Aldaron's Proposal and the resulting complex ban came because you COULDN'T counter it when used by good players. It'd be fine if it had counters. And no, Ferrothorn, Jellicent or whatever else you might be considering were not counters as they were quite easily overwhelmed by multiple swift swimmers.
Quote:Talonflame, which I'm sure is on your mind as an example in this discussion, has plenty of counters, where it still adds team variety and balances him within the tier.I'm actually of the opinion that Talonflame restricts team building (hyper offense with frail pokemon) by having such a powerful priority attack, but to each his own.
Quote:Weather teams meta was the worst meta I have ever experienced. There isn't a single counter that can affect a weather team, that a weather team hasn't already saved a slot to counter-counter. You're essentially trying to blame the ban/nerf on unexperienced players, when people who could play circles around you, notice, plural, decided on this because the game was considerably skewed. In fact so much so that the frekin company changed it.Don't put words in my mouth. The majority of the things that were banned last gen were inherently broken. LMFAO at you mentioning Game Freak in the discussion as if they cared about 6v6 singles or any of Smogon's tiers. The nerfs to weather and special attacks were to balance doubles, where weather has a much larger impact.
Quote:you point out why TTar is a usable pokemon, but say that a team around it is gimmicky? You mean for his sandstorm ability? Weather abilities have become essentiall a buff for burst damage. In fact we should see more fire teams since charizard Y/Ninetails are both auto weathers.That would be obvious if you'd read my post again. You don't see sand stall teams any more largely because perm sand doesn't exist. If sun teams become popular, that'd be awesome; they they'd just be much more limited than they were in the past. Growth Sweepers with Chlorophyll, Solar Power users, and Harvest abusers would just be less viable due to the much shorter timer.
Quote:To be honest I'm not sure if you understand how the metagame works, everyone with half a brain know that Goodra was specifically made for politoad rain support.Developer intentions are irrelevent. Maybe I don't have half a brain, so tell me how many Goodra are running Hydration in OU and VGC 2014 (Nintendo official doubles)? 10% and 14% respectively you say? Yeah, that's what I thought. And you have the audacity to throw around ad hominems and question my knowledge of the metagame...
But alas, I've steered the thread off topic, so I'll leave with this. If anyone explain to me how XY OU promotes more variety in team composition than BW did, let me know through PM.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - Niernen - 2014-01-10
With all the talk about weather i'm surprised this has not been mentioned, but a sandstorm Castform version would be cool. I mean, didn't RSE have the first sandstorm areas anyways? never got why there was not a sandstorm castform.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - KhainiWest - 2014-01-10
xlxlxlxl Wrote:Mega Kanga just got banned to ubers, but while it was OU, it was a pokemon that would beat you at Team Preview if you didn't have specific countermeasures for it. And even then, you usually had to sac something to take it out. Fake Out was pretty trashy. PuP, Return, Sucker Punch, Fire Punch/Crunch/Earthquake beats entire teams.
...That was the point of me asking you to LOOK at him, he was broken, they uber'd him. Why? Because he needed very specific counters. This whole "every pokemon has a counter" is the dumbest sh`it ever. "DUH" is what I want to say, the point is how specific these counters have to be.
xlxlxlxl Wrote:Why would you even say this if you're not sure yourself? OU is based solely on usage with a cutoff (usually top 50 most used). Ubers is OU's ban list, not tier in of itself. UU:BL::OU:Uber, RU:BL2::OU:Uber, etc. Random matches have nothing to do with this conversation, so why would you even mention them?
...I'm not sure if you're glancing over my posts or if you're actually reading them.
1) Usage is a part of it. But then we come back to your silly argument where "good" things are naturally abused and people should just natually have counters to them. This is where stats/combo's take a stand, somethign that typically wins because of lack of counters, then things get banned to keep the metagame balanced. Hence rain/swiftswim being banned
The reason I brought up random battles is because stats do matter in the selection, which is why the have to scale them to make any tier capable of fighting back.
xlxlxlxl Wrote:No, just no. Aldaron's Proposal and the resulting complex ban came because you COULDN'T counter it when used by good players. It'd be fine if it had counters. And no, Ferrothorn, Jellicent or whatever else you might be considering were not counters as they were quite easily overwhelmed by multiple swift swimmers.
....Which kind of supports the argument that the weather ban was necessary and made the metagame worse.
xlxlxlxl Wrote:Don't put words in my mouth. The majority of the things that were banned last gen were inherently broken. LMFAO at you mentioning Game Freak in the discussion as if they cared about 6v6 singles or any of Smogon's tiers. The nerfs to weather and special attacks were to balance doubles, where weather has a much larger impact.
I should just copy and paste your previous responses because you're arguing weather teams to be easily counterable, yet explain to me how their dominance was shown even to gamefreak about how stupid this entire concept was? How inherently creaed a standard in the metagame was to either have one or counter it?
I mean you aren't arguing with me, you're arguing with yourself, it's quite fun watching you contradict yourself. To be quite frank if you can't see that the weather teams were inherantly out of control then you can continue to remain oblivious. But it seems examples of people taking steps to bring it down contradict your point of view.
xlxlxlxl Wrote:That would be obvious if you'd read my post again.
Sorry to say but it's you with the reading problem. You're trying to sound experienced but you're talking from both sides of your mouth, with your food in it.
xlxlxlxl Wrote:You don't see sand stall teams any more largely because perm sand doesn't exist. If sun teams become popular, that'd be awesome; they they'd just be much more limited than they were in the past. Growth Sweepers with Chlorophyll, Solar Power users, and Harvest abusers would just be less viable due to the much shorter timer.
...what are you talking about? You have two people telling you the weather nerf was necessary, that weather teams are still viable, just more about burst than longetivity, and you're arguing what now? You're telling malthe that weather teams did not dominate the metagame, when they in fact did, thus needing a nerf that even game freak recongnized and you have conceded. So what's your stance? Just trying to throw your unnecessary opinion to get some type of conversation?
xlxlxlxl Wrote:Developer intentions are irrelevent. Maybe I don't have half a brain, so tell me how many Goodra are running Hydration in OU and VGC 2014 (Nintendo official doubles)? 10% and 14% respectively you say? Yeah, that's what I thought. And you have the audacity to throw around ad hominems and question my knowledge of the metagame...
Someone who actually knows how to play Wrote:[INDENT]You guys are viewing Goodra in a too narrow-minded manner. This guy is killer when paired with Gastrodon.
252 hp / 252 spa / 4 speed
Sap Sipper
Fire Blast / Focus Blast
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Draco Meteor
Yes, Sap Sipper raises attack, but the point is, it's a free switch in on a grass attack. If your Gastrodon is threatened, out comes Goodra. Opponents will immediately suspect a bulky physical and be quite disappointed to receive a dracometeor (or something equally bad) in their face. Goodra fills an important role on a rain team (which will still persist, but in a different manner than before) with its natural SpD bulk and good special attack coverage. Dragoo isn't going to sweep an entire team on switch in, his role is to support grass-vulnerable tanks like Gastrodon, Jellicent, Quagsire, Politoed, or Hippodown. [/INDENT]
obnoxiousname Wrote:But alas, I've steered the thread off topic, so I'll leave with this. If anyone explain to me how XY OU promotes more variety in team composition than BW did, let me know through PM.
Well with an extra type, steel losing most of is defenses and the addition to mega evolutions which have a greater time factor involved, it adds for a lot of combinations.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - Five Second Pose - 2014-01-10
Colress Wrote:Traditional Feebas finding method? Yes please.
Yeah, if you have a few days straight to spare. Things shouldn't be time-consuming just for the sake of being time-consuming.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - Kubi - 2014-01-10
Niernen Wrote:With all the talk about weather i'm surprised this has not been mentioned, but a sandstorm Castform version would be cool. I mean, didn't RSE have the first sandstorm areas anyways? never got why there was not a sandstorm castform.Yeah. I remember taking a liking to Flygon when I first saw it. So I went running through the desert trying to find a few Trapinch to breed. It probably has been said before, but it'd seem plausible to introduce more Mega Evolutions for this generation since apparently Mega Lati@s is known in X/Y. I'm really hoping Flygon gets a good one.
How would you go about remaking Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - Jedward - 2014-01-10
Five Second Pose Wrote:Yeah, if you have a few days straight to spare. Things shouldn't be time-consuming just for the sake of being time-consuming.
I would follow this up by either removing Prism Scale (Gen V held item used to evolve Feebas since Contests didn't exist), or adding a similar item for Sylveon. I'd go with the first one because its evolution method made sense and was pretty cool in terms of getting players to experience content they wouldn't otherwise do so for.