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+--- Thread: About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed (/showthread.php?tid=65945)
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - Takebacker - 2013-07-27
@above: I'm 203 aren't i? My opinion doesn't change even with the "nerf".
Then again if either of you have a superior map, i would LOVE to hear where it is at because HoH cannot keep up with my kill rate and twisted aqua blows.
Patt Wrote:First off, I'm not talking specifically about party play lines for the misc exp buffs. Before Unleashed, they were calculated from the traditional experience line. This included 2x exp cards, events, 1.5x buffs, HS, etc. Now it's only calculated off of BASE exp. This has nothing to do party the party play bonus.
I was using the point that said buffs (link, guild) did not go up from lines other than base. This includes party play lines. Meaning these two buffs' functions did not change at all and is an extension complaint of things not increasing the base line.
Patt Wrote:Secondly, have you looked at party experience since Unleashed? The exp you get WITH party bonus and party play bonus (where applicable) is always less than half with two people in a party as opposed to solo. For example, if a mob gave 100k EXP solo, you would be getting less than 50k exp with a 2 man party after the party bonuses, that's what makes it worse; it has nothing to do with power levels unless you're partying with someone who is much stronger than you and can kill more mobs than you can to make up the difference; the stronger player will always suffer though.
You're supposed to get half exp for double kills. (it's more like 60%, actually) If you can't manage double kills with two people, you aren't partying right. Like i said, find someone on your kill rate level.
Patt Wrote:Don't you think that's a problem then? HS mules shouldn't have to be the only go to option for HS.
Yes i do think it is a problem that such a significant buff is restricted to a class that no one funds (bishop), or shared with a class that is beyond mediocre for training (phantom).
If you wanted to you could say this makes people with more money benefit also, since more than 1 computer means HS mules.
Patt Wrote:Yeah, I guess, but this is a game, not a job; I'd like to be able to play more than once a week.
Exactly? If you were doing top tier bosses every single day that kind of sounds like a job. People in my guild were doing runs less than 3 times a week anyway just because no group can always be available to boss.
You're most likely going to be making similar if not slightly less profit from two runs a week simply because of availability hiking prices up.
Patt Wrote:How is this contradicting? Perseverance =/= being okay with a stupid EXP system that makes no sense. Like I said, I don't mind that the experience get's harder as you level up, but the way they implemented it is stupid. In my opinion bosses should be dependent on strength and training should be dependent on willpower. I'd rather train on a large map with mobs I can easily kill with any range than a small map with high HP mobs that are essentially bosses that favor the strong. My ideal training map would be a Ludi vikings style map that's 4x bigger with enough mobs to comfortably accommodate 6 players to discourage leeching.
What's the point of upgrading if it ONLY affects bosses? It sounds like your problem is more how you gain power than how your power determines your success.
Patt Wrote:I'm not sure if you're even reading what you're saying now, but maybe you should go try partying at warrior grounds and tell me how great it is.
It is pretty f'ucking great. Maybe not at 210+, but you shouldn't be complaining about that if you got that far already.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - i123theDemon - 2013-07-27
Declaimed Wrote:I agree with their decision to keep the 2x cards out of the 201-250 range, and also agree with their reasoning. It'll be nice to have the "impossible to reach/very difficult" cap back, instead of having waves of level 200s like it means absolutely nothing. Yes, I know. People used to race to 200, now everyone wants to race to 250. But whats the point? I was never one to make 15+ different classes. Having additional content beyond 200 at a steady pace will be nice, instead of speeding through it and never stopping to enjoy anything. And this is especially true if there truly is a 5th job on the way. From what I understand, that was the entire point of raising the cap. People complained: "Everything is too easy, things used to be challenging, levels used to mean something, and now they don't". I see level 250 as the answer to those complaints. Why raise the level cap if you're going to make it as easy to reach as the old one?
I sincerely hope that they don't go back on the decision to take away the coupons and that they stop anyone who tries to circumvent it.
Now, as for the other changes to the system regarding exp gain? My comments in this post have nothing to do with that.
obviously u havent trained past the 210 yet.
Did u know it used to take me 20 days of 15 hrs on 2x from 194 -> 200?
I m not in favor of repeating those grinding madness. At lvl 213 it's 11% per hr on 3x -> means it will be somewhere around 3.5% per hr on 1x.
by the time i hit 219 the exp gained will probably be very similar to my old rate of 1.9% an hr (199->200).
All of u who say easy this easy that obviously never trained past the level.
If you make a poll for those beyond 210. and ask them to say yes or no to 2x card. Then it's fair comparison. Everyone below 210 shouldn't have a say as they don't even get a feel how difficult it is to level.
Well difficult is not a good word, I will say SUPER TIME CONSUMING!
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - Takebacker - 2013-07-27
For the record, i am not saying leveling was too easy past 200 even with 2x cards. I just don't think these changes make it that much harder.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - Jamesie - 2013-07-27
I think the problem is not 2x being removed, but a lack of solid places to get EXP past 210.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - Justin - 2013-07-27
Takebacker Wrote:For the record, i am not saying leveling was too easy past 200 even with 2x cards. I just don't think these changes make it that much harder.
They halved the exp from the mobs, they "halved" the exp gain overall due to lack of 2x cards, and they nerfed the spawn on the map, making this notion of "party play" you're defending so strongly even more of a waste of time.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - i123theDemon - 2013-07-27
Takebacker Wrote:For the record, i am not saying leveling was too easy past 200 even with 2x cards. I just don't think these changes make it that much harder.
50 hrs becomes 100 hrs, if you can spend 2 bucks per 4 hrs to save that time, i m sure u would.
btw the golem nerfing is bad for those who is overpowered. I m not in the overpowered club tho.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - Proxied - 2013-07-27
I personally really hate the boss changes but I guess that really just stems from selfishness/greediness.. With the way nexon has redesigned the game whether it's on purpose or not there is seemingly almost no way to make pure meso via bossing anymore unless you are able to kill empress minions/herself. This is fine and all but mainly through scrapping evolving world empress drops and limiting the times per week this has sincerely hurt my and many others meso income. (Also it seems that CRA bosses STILL don't drop cra equips) To be fair after the empress changes in general not very many people are even capable of doing a v2 run in my server which is where the selfishness comes to play in wanting the weekly cap limit to be lifted, but this can be seen throughout everyone I know..NX rate is steadily dropping because nobody has any meso to buy NX with and stuff.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - Takebacker - 2013-07-27
Justin Wrote:They halved the exp from the mobs, they "halved" the exp gain overall due to lack of 2x cards, and they nerfed the spawn on the map, making this notion of "party play" you're defending so strongly even more of a waste of time.
They halved exp but cut HP by a tremendous amount (to most who tried to train there). I really doubt you clear the map, and even with a spawn nerf there should still be double the amount of mobs that you can't get to within 10 seconds.
Again, 2x cards don't exist in korea, and we all know this is korea's game. Nothing technically changes here.
I'm defending duo conditions, not party plays traditional method of a full party.
i123theDemon Wrote:50 hrs becomes 100 hrs, if you can spend 2 bucks per 4 hrs to save that time, i m sure u would.
btw the golem nerfing is bad for those who is overpowered. I m not in the overpowered club tho.
You would be wrong. I just rely on events. Besides if i wanted to subject myself to getting to the point where i need 100 hours to train i would be better off waiting for a better spot.
I'm apparently overpowered to most, no? Why am i not complaining about the nerfs?
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - Justin - 2013-07-27
Ah, alright. Duoing is actually pretty solid assuming both killers are similar speeds and know what they're doing (and decent funding)
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - Zerard - 2013-07-27
I'm not entirely sure what the benefit of going past 200 is at the moment. Don't misunderstand me; I know that eventually 5th job is going to be released, but surely it wouldn't start directly at 200 would it? As of now, unless you're a Xenon or Demon Avenger, all you're going to receive from leveling is points to add into your secondary stat (And I suppose 210 if you really, really, really want the third level link skill of characters that have them).
Although, I do agree that nerfing golems and denying the use of 2x coupons past 200 is, in my opinion, tyrannical. People should have the option for aided grinding past 200 available to them, just as people choose to fund themselves to ridiculous heights.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - Chilly - 2013-07-27
The nerf was bad for people who are "underpowered" or less powered too. By that, I mean people that deal approximately, but no more than ~5M or so per attack to ~5 to 8 mobs. I'm just hypothesizing, but by increasing death rate (by lowering HP), it increases travel time which decreases kill time, decreasing EXP.
I have no idea where some got the idea that lowering HP makes it better or easier for less funded individuals. One simply stands in their attacking position longer, which I suspect might be better for EXP at all levels of power (back again to the less travelling hypothesis). Even if it takes you 15 hits (2M per, totaling 30M HP) to kill them now, another 10 hits (totaling 50M HP) isn't drastically and noticeably "harder".
The only way it is easier now, I will fully admit, is for people whose hardware cannot handle a blistering amount of Golem attacks at once. I fell into this category to a slight degree, but with the mobs dying faster I now suffer from dangerously disconnecting lag not from attacks but when the mob is killed and loot is generated. If too much loot, or multiple weapons are generated, the likelihood of D/Cing increases. I guess I just can't win.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - i123theDemon - 2013-07-27
Takebacker Wrote:You would be wrong. I just rely on events. Besides if i wanted to subject myself to getting to the point where i need 100 hours to train i would be better off waiting for a better spot.
I'm apparently overpowered to most, no? Why am i not complaining about the nerfs?
That's mean you are just a casual trainer.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - Takebacker - 2013-07-27
Chilly Wrote:The nerf was bad for people who are "underpowered" or less powered too. By that, I mean people that deal approximately, but no more than ~5M or so per attack to ~5 to 8 mobs. I'm just hypothesizing, but by increasing death rate (by lowering HP), it increases travel time which decreases kill time, decreasing EXP.
That comes down to your class and it's mobility/coverage more than anything though.
i123theDemon Wrote:That's mean you are just a casual trainer.
Yeah i would say that's spot on lol.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - ultimax21 - 2013-07-27
Chilly Wrote:The nerf was bad for people who are "underpowered" or less powered too. By that, I mean people that deal approximately, but no more than ~5M or so per attack to ~5 to 8 mobs. I'm just hypothesizing, but by increasing death rate (by lowering HP), it increases travel time which decreases kill time, decreasing EXP.
I have no idea where some got the idea that lowering HP makes it better or easier for less funded individuals. One simply stands in their attacking position longer, which I suspect might be better for EXP at all levels of power (back again to the less travelling hypothesis). Even if it takes you 15 hits (2M per, totaling 30M HP) to kill them now, another 10 hits (totaling 50M HP) isn't drastically and noticeably "harder".
Agreed with this, I don't understand how it would make it any faster for you or anyone else. I'm sorry for 1 shotting all golems, that I waste several mins running all around the godforsaken map looking for puny groups of 2-3 all the time just to 1 shot them again. I'm repeating my process of running around the map time and time again, and sticking another guy just as strong as me would make us both scramble around with dead spawn times. I started 1 shotting them after the patch however, and not before. At least before I would have them respawn fast enough so I wouldn't even care how long it took me anyways because I can just run to the next big mob in one FJ and not 2-3 mobs or trying to pick out some decent mobs to kill.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - i123theDemon - 2013-07-27
Takebacker Wrote:Yeah i would say that's spot on lol.
So u have no say to this! hoho
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - Takebacker - 2013-07-27
i123theDemon Wrote:So u have no say to this! hoho
Complainers cannot stop the fumes of complainers. I really doubt you guys want a circle jerk.
I still train. This s'hit affects me. I just don't let it.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - SaptaZapta - 2013-07-28
Takebacker Wrote:They halved exp but cut HP by a tremendous amount (to most who tried to train there). I really doubt you clear the map, and even with a spawn nerf there should still be double the amount of mobs that you can't get to within 10 seconds.
They halved the exp and reduced the HP 40%. The ratio got worse.
If I used to 10-hit and am now 6-hitting, for half the exp, I'm doing worse. Added travel time is just the icing on the cake.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - Takebacker - 2013-07-28
SaptaZapta Wrote:They halved the exp and reduced the HP 40%. The ratio got worse.
If I used to 10-hit and am now 6-hitting, for half the exp, I'm doing worse. Added travel time is just the icing on the cake.
But it really needed to happen or else accessibility suffers. So many people were complaining about how the map was too much to handle character wise, computer wise, finding people to duo effectively with...unless you're really funded obviously.
The map is still top tier for 190+ training even with all this and no one is giving me a superior option even now. Everyone just seems to be saying "f'uck it, i'm done" even though it's still a LARGE step up from HoH.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - SaptaZapta - 2013-07-28
Takebacker Wrote:The map is still top tier for 190+ training even with all this and no one is giving me a superior option even now. Everyone just seems to be saying "f'uck it, i'm done" even though it's still a LARGE step up from HoH.
The fact that it's the best option available is the problem.
I don't care all that much, I'm not in any rush, as long as 5th job isn't out and the stat cap hasn't been raised, I only train when bored enough. But for those who are actually trying, the nerf is a blow.
About The New EXP Rates and Bosses Post Unleashed - Takebacker - 2013-07-28
SaptaZapta Wrote:The fact that it's the best option available is the problem.
I don't care all that much, I'm not in any rush, as long as 5th job isn't out and the stat cap hasn't been raised, I only train when bored enough. But for those who are actually trying, the nerf is a blow.
I'm not arguing it wasn't a blow. It's a blow that probably should have happened because people are trying. The fact that people can get to 22x (or 216 or whatever the highest level is currently) in a fraction of the time that anyone in korea can, a version that has always dominated in the grinding aspect of maple, just shows how good it really was. Whether it was the maps or the ratios or the 2x cards, warriors grounds was amazing and it's still amazing because it's still the best even after all that.
I just really don't see how people can complain when upgraded FoG is now the best training area. I mean how cool of a throwback is that?