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+--- Thread: 10 grand to abort a baby. (/showthread.php?tid=62962)
10 grand to abort a baby. - Razmos - 2013-03-05
KhainiWest Wrote:This actually is a big issue in a lot of states. I believe the term is "assisted suicide". It doesn't really apply all that well in this circumstance, but a lot of states are reconsidering and changing the laws concerning it. For example, if your grandparent is suffering, and they ask you to pull the plug, as long as you get some type of evidence to show that they are essentially begging you, you can assist in their suicide.Yeah, I've heard about that too, it was a big thing on the news a while ago.
Currently you can't do that and it's considered murder which in, a lot of circumstances, is ridiculous
It just irritates me to no end when people object to such ideas on the grounds that "a life is a life and shouldn't be taken" without even considering the consequences or circumstances (i'm using big words today) of that person or the people involved with them.
It's that pathetic narrow minded thinking that is holding society back. They are so stuck in their ways and focus on the "big picture" rather than the small details which are important.
10 grand to abort a baby. - Curtiss - 2013-03-05
[MENTION=4235]KhainiWest[/MENTION]; Just reading their comments is bad enough, I would have to get myself institutionalized if I so much as thought of participating.
I am relieved to hear that the laws on assisted suicide are shifting at least because if a conscious person in terrible and incurable pain wants it to end quickly they should get that choice, instead of getting their misery prolonged because some morons don't know the difference between an acceptable quality of life and death slightly delayed by copious amount of drugs which render their perceptions almost null.[MENTION=5228]Razmos[/MENTION]; I'm sorry that I murdered your brain cells. Too bad these people have yet to grasp that some problems are still incurable, your own good health and perceptions on life should not dictate that someone else gets to live life too painfully to be decent, and furthermore that aborting a baby with problems that have been described as being instantly lethal in severe cases is not the same thing as aborting a baby with comparatively trivial issues.
10 grand to abort a baby. - CrazyForDex - 2013-03-05
That was a long read. I think it is completely ridiculous that that woman signed a contract that explicity stated that she agreed to have an abortion if there are severe complications or the child has lifethreatening defects and then refused to have one.
I think its crazy how this woman took it upon herself to suddenly feel that she had a moral obligation to keep this child alive only to dump it on other people. I am aware it isn't an easy decision, but I disagree with the decision to keep the child considering it will need to suffer through multiple surgeries and have a very difficult life dealing with all of its problems. It's even worse that there isn't even a guarentee that the child will be able to live a normal functioning life after all of this.
10 grand to abort a baby. - Curtiss - 2013-03-05
CrazyForDex Wrote:That was a long read. I think it is completely ridiculous that that woman signed a contract that explicity stated that she agreed to have an abortion if there are severe complications or the child has lifethreatening defects and then refused to have one.
I think its crazy how this woman took it upon herself to suddenly feel that she had a moral obligation to keep this child alive only to dump it on other people. I am aware it isn't an easy decision, but I disagree with the decision to keep the child considering it will need to suffer through multiple surgeries and have a very difficult life dealing with all of its problems. It's even worse that there isn't even a guarentee that the child will be able to live a normal functioning life after all of this.
Based on her latest blog post it sounds as if she's basically projecting the loss of her baby on Valentine's Day on this baby.
...
She really didn't think about what she was going in for. Look at the pro-lifers there, they're making comparisons to Hitler and Down's syndrome willy-nilly; anything to them wouldn't be life-threatening short of a genetic defect that effectively causes termination in the womb, but then again that wouldn't be an issue since nature itself made the choice.
10 grand to abort a baby. - Moonlapse - 2013-03-05
KhainiWest Wrote:Don't ever participate in the comment section of any news outlet. The comments of religious zealots are unbearble. I can't even maintain my composure with the amount of stupidity in majority of those comments. That's saying something.
To be fair I find the comments of left wing zealots and militant atheists equally unbearable. It's all worthless background noise.
10 grand to abort a baby. - KhainiWest - 2013-03-05
Moonlapse Wrote:To be fair I find the comments of left wing zealots and militant atheists equally unbearable. It's all worthless background noise.
SHUT UP LIBTARD ILL KEEP MY GUNS ILL KEEP MY RIGHTS, YOU CAN KEEP THE CHANGE
10 grand to abort a baby. - Moonlapse - 2013-03-05
KhainiWest Wrote:SHUT UP LIBTARD ILL KEEP MY GUNS ILL KEEP MY RIGHTS, YOU CAN KEEP THE CHANGE
I love you man.
ALso I agree with Sapta, Why would you sign a contract saying you would be willing to get an abortion if you are opposed to getting one?
\(o_0)/
10 grand to abort a baby. - Heidi - 2013-03-05
I think what this raises is some really difficult ethical issues when it comes to surrogate mothers. Not saying I entirely agree with this one, but I have some sympathy.
Sure, a surrogate mother should be aware of all these potential issues, but like many things most probably have the attitude of "it'll never happen to me". So when they agree to it, they are following that assumption, and don't even give thought to what happens if things did go wrong. I am pretty much pro-life (within reason; when there is an ACTUAL danger to the mothers life, and there is no other options, I think it is appropriate. Other than that, everybody has a right to their life), and can understand why the surrogate mother didn't want an abortion.
I can see why surrogate mothers are a good thing, but it opens up a real can of worms. The surrogate mother is the one who has all the chemicals released in her body and brain throughout the pregnancy process that serve various purposes such as ensuring bonding between the mother and child. Being protective of the child is instinct, and part of what our thousands of generations of evolution have lead to.
I don't know why she said the $15000 thing. If she was actually serious, then she has a serious issue. But we will never know how serious it was.
And I don't know if I can really agree with the practice. On the plus side, it allows couples to have children that might not have been able to otherwise. On the downside, it results in all these endless ethical and moral issues. Adoption is a better option in my view. I understand that people want to pass on their genes, but getting somebody else to assist with that process is so unnatural. And in this case it wasn't even the "real" mothers egg!!!!!!!!! Why on earth didn't they just adopt a child? Why did they have to have one "made" specially for them?
And this whole idea of paying people thousands of dollars to have kids for you? I think like organ donation, surrogate mothers need to be volunteers. It should NOT be a career. What would happen if something happened to the surrogate mother, or something happened to the unborn child. The idea of paying people to have a baby sickens me.
10 grand to abort a baby. - Niernen - 2013-03-05
I wonder if they child can handle the medical defects as it grows up, not just physically but mentally also.
10 grand to abort a baby. - Curtiss - 2013-03-06
[MENTION=152]Heidi[/MENTION]; Except given that the egg wasn't hers either, she didn't have enough money to support the child and she still ended up giving the baby to another family that pretty much says she should not have had a choice in it. Hormones and motherly didn't come into play yet when she signed the contract too and she likely had to also rely on the money surrogacy was giving her so by all means she should have had to obey rather than drag things out in this way.
I agree that surrogacy doesn't sit well with me either and I would vastly prefer adoption or even IVF, but you would also have to consider that these mums sign up for it of their own will and the parents likely chose surrogacy precisely because they were hoping for a healthy baby without crippling health issues who could at least call its father 'Dad' truly. Even discounting all of these her choice of ultimately giving this baby for another family to handle is still deplorable because they have been dragged into a conflict she started, whether or not they're happy with the kid.
10 grand to abort a baby. - DeanNim - 2013-03-06
i've always found not aborting a baby with lethal conditions to be cruel. you might suffer along with the child, but your financial constraints is nothing compared to what the child has to go through emotionally.
10 grand to abort a baby. - KhainiWest - 2013-03-06
Heidi Wrote:And I don't know if I can really agree with the practice. On the plus side, it allows couples to have children that might not have been able to otherwise. On the downside, it results in all these endless ethical and moral issues. Adoption is a better option in my view. I understand that people want to pass on their genes, but getting somebody else to assist with that process is so unnatural. And in this case it wasn't even the "real" mothers egg!!!!!!!!! Why on earth didn't they just adopt a child? Why did they have to have one "made" specially for them?
The adoption process is honestly retarded. It costs like 6 grand to even apply to adopt, a long goddamn list for majority of the children unless they have a severe mental issue, or are late teens. Then there's scammers in other countries who will essentially string you along, then for whatever made up reason deny the ability to adopt. There's blackmarkets for children that have been abducted, then attempted to be sold through orphanages.
[video=youtube;Jmk7RvAPYQY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmk7RvAPYQY[/video]
10 grand to abort a baby. - KhainiWest - 2013-03-07
They summed it up nicely for those who are too lazy to read;
[video=youtube;H4vOQlMsoEs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4vOQlMsoEs[/video]
10 grand to abort a baby. - Razmos - 2013-03-07
I'm confused.
I'm finding myself agreeing with youtube comments.
The responses on that video are the exact opposite of what I was expecting.
10 grand to abort a baby. - KhainiWest - 2013-03-07
Razmos Wrote:I'm confused.
I'm finding myself agreeing with youtube comments.
The responses on that video are the exact opposite of what I was expecting.
All the pro lifers are on republican websites.
Just an example;
http://www.jillstanek.com/2013/03/10000-offered-to-surrogate-to-abort-her-baby/
10 grand to abort a baby. - SaptaZapta - 2013-03-07
KhainiWest Wrote:They summed it up nicely for those who are too lazy to read;
- snip TYT vid -
Eh, a 10 minute video is too long for a summary.
Also, what's the deal with the subtitles? They seem like they were done by some very poor speech recognition software. Can't they afford to pay a few dollars to some work-from-home human being, who might have been able to turn out something a person with hearing problems could actually understand the story from?
10 grand to abort a baby. - Razmos - 2013-03-07
I actually found the video to be a much easier summary than the article. I don't mind reading, but there was a hell of a lot of it, I might have skipped over some parts.
Also I don't remember the list of abnormalities and defects being as long in the article. Multiple heart defects, organs in the wrong places, 2 spleens. At one point I think they called one of the issues a "brain cyst", whereas in the video it says that the hemispheres of her brain have not split properly. that's one hell of a difference because it means the difference between this child being relatively normal and being a drooling vegetable.
Also i think the subtitles are a youtube feature, activate them on pretty much any youtube video for hilarious results, because it is ALWAYS wrong.
10 grand to abort a baby. - Heidi - 2013-03-07
Curtiss Wrote:[MENTION=152]Heidi[/MENTION]; Except given that the egg wasn't hers either, she didn't have enough money to support the child and she still ended up giving the baby to another family that pretty much says she should not have had a choice in it. Hormones and motherly didn't come into play yet when she signed the contract too and she likely had to also rely on the money surrogacy was giving her so by all means she should have had to obey rather than drag things out in this way.
Like I said, people don't really think of these things when they sign contracts; it is always "it will never happen to me". Human nature right there. Yes, they didn't come into play when she signed the contract, but they most certainly would have when the decision actually had to be made.
Also, she's clearly a religious woman who believes that no matter what, abortion is wrong. Good for her, that's what she believes, and it will be for good reason. I don't agree with that entirely (I'd consider abortion if I was in her situation, given the extent of the abnormalities although I'd still be very uncomfortable about it), but I respect that it is her belief.
It's irrelevant to this debate, but the thing that really annoys me about abortions is all the people who want to kill healthy unborn children that they brought into this world through carelessness. Life is a very precious thing. The ethical issues and laws surrounding very sick people are a problem; I was unfortunate enough to have to watch my own father suffer with a terminal illness for 4 years (he finally passed away last year). There is a big mess surrounding whether or not people in such situations should be kept alive as long as possible, or just kept comfortable. Babies born with conditions that mean they will never be able to leave the hospital and will never be able to enjoy life at all are probably best put to rest before they are even born. But it's impossible to draw a line as to what is worth saving and what isn't, as we can never even be sure, and there are plenty of doctors that don't know what they're talking about anyway.
In these cases, I don't think it would have at all been wrong to get an abortion, but I don't think it was wrong to refuse it either.
Overall, I feel bad for everybody involved. It was a tough situation to be in, and everybody was only trying to do what they believed was right. I can see a lot of arguments both ways, so where I stand is really just saying that it is unfortunate the situation came up in the first place.
This very strongly reminds me of the case of Baby K. Again, this was a child with a very serious health condition, most of her brain was missing, she'd never be conscious, yet she was kept alive for quite awhile. At least in her case, she probably never suffered due to not having the parts of her brain necessary for that. If she'd been my child, I think I would have wanted to just let her go as it was obvious she'd never get anywhere in life without most of her brain. But I can understand why other people wouldn't want to do that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_K
I have a good friend who was adopted at birth. One of the most successful people I know. I wish that more people who get pregnant who don't want the child would consider the option of adoption at birth rather than abortion.
Just saying this, as I don't want people thinking that I support the surrogate mother and am against the "natural" parents like I may have implied.
10 grand to abort a baby. - Curtiss - 2013-03-08
[MENTION=152]Heidi[/MENTION]; I'll say it certainly did sound like that, thank you for clarifying.
As you said this is a case where neither party looks like a saint; I for one wonder about the lack of a genetic screening being done as they might have had either excluded the donor or the father then. However actions do speak louder than words and that she considered aborting for a larger sum does rub me the wrong way even without including the money she already took for surrogacy prior to the baby's condition being known.
I read the case of baby K and while they sound similar it's the birth mother at least that was making the argument there, however silly I might think it is to provide life support to a child that was obviously doomed. This 'mother' on the other hand is neither the birth mother nor the main care provider now but the overall reason why I deplore her actions is due to how she speaks of life as if it's always precious no matter what the quality is like when it is sometimes better to let go early and her actions have involved a lot of people in something they do not want, not the least the actual parents.
I might be biased against her though as I read her latest blog entry and it sounds to me as if she's treating Baby S as her miscarried baby's replacement. :|
10 grand to abort a baby. - Imitazion - 2013-03-08
I'd pay that to not become an uncle in 4 weeks.