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Ignore def doesn't stack - Printable Version

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Ignore def doesn't stack - hongyu - 2011-08-18

dragonknight Wrote:Are you sure the total damage on the same weapons stack? I thought it only stack on separate weapons like dagger & katara, or dualbow & arrow. If I am wrong, does that mean boss 30% / def ignore 30% on same weapons also stack?

boss damage has already confirmed to stack, someone posted a dagger with 50% boss damage to confirm that it stacks, the thread should be the one posted by locked, as someone posted on that thread with 50% boss dagger, I tested total damage myself, it indeed does stack for sure, with boss damage and total damage it becomes 42% boss damage

Ignore def doesn't stack - Blades4hire - 2011-08-18

hongyu Wrote:boss damage has already confirmed to stack, someone posted a dagger with 50% boss damage to confirm that it stacks, the thread should be the one posted by locked, as someone posted on that thread with 50% boss dagger, I tested total damage myself, it indeed does stack for sure, with boss damage and total damage it becomes 42% boss damage
I thought it was multiplicative not additive?

Ignore def doesn't stack - hongyu - 2011-08-18

Blades4hire Wrote:I thought it was multiplicative not additive?

it's additive

Ignore def doesn't stack - Stereo - 2011-08-18

Joy, now I have to figure out which of Blast (21% ignore), Threaten (30% ignore), and the set bonus (15% ignore) stack, and if it's worth using the set or not.

Ignore def doesn't stack - hongyu - 2011-08-18

Stereo Wrote:Joy, now I have to figure out which of Blast (21% ignore), Threaten (30% ignore), and the set bonus (15% ignore) stack, and if it's worth using the set or not.

I'm pretty sure threaten reduces the def of the monster, so there should be no problem with that

Ignore def doesn't stack - Locked - 2011-08-18

All this proves is that total damage doesn't stack.

40849 minimum range *.8375 defense = 34211 * 1.06 total damage = 36264

Ignore def doesn't stack - hongyu - 2011-08-18

Locked Wrote:All this proves is that total damage doesn't stack.

40849 minimum range *.8375 defense = 34211 * 1.06 total damage = 36264

48685(max range)*1.06*0.8 = 41285 max non crit dmg, this ss using dead mine set

[Image: 314rvoz.jpg]

this ss shows a higher damage

edit: I forgot ambition ignore def which ignores 4.5% so it would be ignoring 24.5% def in total. 75.5% of 25% is 18.875% def, my damage would be 48685*1.06*0.81125 = 41866 max damage, from the previous page, since fear was able to hit above his max range let's assume ambition ignore def is subtractive which would be (25-4.5)*0.8 = 16.4% def, which means I would be doing 83.6% of my damage max, so 48685*1.06*0.836 = 43143, but either way in the ss I hit higher, so in anyway you look at it, total damage stacks

Ignore def doesn't stack - Kaasoljoyyx - 2011-08-18

Can confirm threaten stacks with ignore defense. Follows reason outlined above.

Ignore def doesn't stack - Stereo - 2011-08-18

hongyu Wrote:I'm pretty sure threaten reduces the def of the monster, so there should be no problem with that

Ok.
21% blast + 15% from set bonus: (17353-18461 range)
@ Chipmunks (10%PDR).
17353*2.89*1.495*0.936 = 70176-74656
17353*2.89*1.495*0.921 = 69051-73459
Observed range: 71234 - 75769
That's... neither. The upper indicates 49.94% (or higher) ignore PDR. The lower indicates 50.11% (or lower) ignore PDR. So it's a pretty good guess that I'm at 50% PDR. Somehow.

 Spoiler
Same 9 buffs active, using Blast 32 (says 21% to ignore def) and the Silent Crusade set (says 15% ignore pdr)

+ bonus threaten damage
 Spoiler
76897 -> 64.08% (or higher) ignore PDR.
Which, assuming Threaten just drops the mob by 30% (to 7%) and then the same 50% is applied, should be 65% ignore PDR. Rather than additive (to 80%).


edit: switched to a different set bonus (2% atk 2 matk) and still get exactly 50% ignore PDR with blast. -_-

Ignore def doesn't stack - Kalovale - 2011-08-18

From my own testing, it doesn't seem Ignore Defense 30% works on bosses, at least Dojo bosses. Can someone confirm/deny this?
Same testing method proved that it works on normal mobs (Rash with 10% PDR).

Ignore def doesn't stack - hongyu - 2011-08-18

Stereo Wrote:Ok.
21% blast + 15% from set bonus: (17353-18461 range)
@ Chipmunks (10%PDR).
17353*2.89*1.495*0.936 = 70176-74656
17353*2.89*1.495*0.921 = 69051-73459
Observed range: 71234 - 75769
That's... neither. The upper indicates 49.94% (or higher) ignore PDR. The lower indicates 50.11% (or lower) ignore PDR. So it's a pretty good guess that I'm at 50% PDR. Somehow.

 Spoiler
Same 9 buffs active, using Blast 32 (says 21% to ignore def) and the Silent Crusade set (says 15% ignore pdr)

+ bonus threaten damage
 Spoiler
76897 -> 64.08% (or higher) ignore PDR.
Which, assuming Threaten just drops the mob by 30% (to 7%) and then the same 50% is applied, should be 65% ignore PDR. Rather than additive (to 80%).

what about your ambition ignore def?

Ignore def doesn't stack - Stereo - 2011-08-18

hongyu Wrote:what about your ambition ignore def?

Ah yes, that's 1% too - lv.14 ambition.

So... 1% (ambition) + 21% (blast) = 50% ignore PDR?

I think maybe Blast just has a fixed 50% and I should stop using it.

---------- Post added at 06:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:12 PM ----------

Okay, Blast was not a good test (doesn't ever seem to match PDR). Using ACB now.

130953-138999 observed @ 17613-18737 range, 1% ignore PDR (from Ambition)
range*5.34*1.495*0.901 = 126689-134774
So yeah, there's mystery PDR here too x_x On the order of (29.2%,31.3%) - somewhere in there.

Maybe Paladins just have a hidden 29% ignore PDR that's always on? Lols.

Ignore def doesn't stack - hongyu - 2011-08-18

Stereo Wrote:Ah yes, that's 1% too - lv.14 ambition.

So... 1% (ambition) + 21% (blast) = 50% ignore PDR?

I think maybe Blast just has a fixed 50% and I should stop using it.

---------- Post added at 06:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:12 PM ----------

Okay, Blast was not a good test (doesn't ever seem to match PDR). Using ACB now.

130953-138999 observed @ 17613-18737 range, 1% ignore PDR (from Ambition)
range*5.34*1.495*0.901 = 126689-134774
So yeah, there's mystery PDR here too x_x On the order of (29.2%,31.3%) - somewhere in there.

Maybe Paladins just have a hidden 29% ignore PDR that's always on? Lols.

maybe 1 of the skills is subtractive instead of multiplicative?

Ignore def doesn't stack - Locked - 2011-08-18

Observed range: 39080~45976
15% PDR ignore on weapon, 20% ignore PDR on Marksmanship. No %attack, %bossdamage, or %total damage on any equipment/codex, and no ambition since I haven't played this character at all since Chaos.

All dojo monsters have 25% PDR.
If stacked: 32730~38505
If not (Only with Marksmanship): 31264~36781

Shown: 36923
[Image: mpls-20110818-181926.png]

derp.

Ignore def doesn't stack - Stereo - 2011-08-18

Testing with 1 buff active now x_x (weapon booster)
12175~18447 clean range (h8 no charge lack of mastery)
Observed regular attacks
11435~17140
Def = (29.15%,39.2%)

So yeah, there's some ignore pdr just passively on my chara, maybe due to Ambition, cause I don't see anything else it could be from (using El Nath set atm)


Swapping to a set with ignore pdr,
11989-18165 range
11249 - 17000 observed
def = (35.9%, 38.3%)

Ignore def doesn't stack - hongyu - 2011-08-18

Locked Wrote:Observed range: 39080~45976
15% PDR ignore on weapon, 20% ignore PDR on Marksmanship. No %attack, %bossdamage, or %total damage on any equipment/codex, and no ambition since I haven't played this character at all since Chaos.

All dojo monsters have 25% PDR.
If stacked: 32730~38505
If not (Only with Marksmanship): 31264~36781

Shown: 36923
[Image: mpls-20110818-181926.png]

derp.

I guess there is some problems with ignore def % at LHC then, I will test it on normal monsters later, anyone else want to test it on normal mob and then lhc mobs? lol

Ignore def doesn't stack - Stereo - 2011-08-18

hongyu Wrote:maybe 1 of the skills is subtractive instead of multiplicative?

Possible... more derping around.

Lightning+Holy regular attacks
17075~18165 range
23755~25101 obs.
pdef = (24.3%,30.6%)

Lightning + Holy breaks down actually to 1.37 (holy) + 0.125 (lightning)

neutral regular attacks, with the Victoria Island Friends set (+5 hp)
11916~18054 range
11093~16772 obs
pdef ignore = (29%,30.9%)


I can't find anything in my skills that makes sense of this:
regular attack, no charges: 30%
regular attack, lightning + holy: 30%
ACB, full buffs up: 30%
Blast, full buffs up: 50%

And I can confirm that 15% ignore PDR from a set bonus is useless to Paladins in all these cases, cause I switched around and saw no change in damage.

It may be worth noting that these are 82 levels below me. Never heard of that affecting pdr but who knows.

Ignore def doesn't stack - Valon - 2011-08-18

I'd like to see some proof that the set bonus ignore def does anything at all. My range goes up from the %all stats, but I honestly see no change in damage whatsoever with ignore def. 15% isn't alot, but it should be a pretty visible difference still. Have to test with and without after work.

Ignore def doesn't stack - Locked - 2011-08-18

Valon Wrote:I'd like to see some proof that the set bonus ignore def does anything at all. My range goes up from the %all stats, but I honestly see no change in damage whatsoever with ignore def. 15% isn't alot, but it should be a pretty visible difference still. Have to test with and without after work.

There's no need.
All it does is fetch potential.

Ignore def doesn't stack - Valon - 2011-08-18

So it does infact do something? Not sure what "fetch potential" is supposed to imply, but as stereo said it has no effect on his damage as a paladin. I'm guessing you mean that it acts exactly as a potential stat on a weapon. If this is the case, does that also mean that ignore def is a waste on a paladins weapon?