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+---- Thread: Marksman or Bowmaster (/showthread.php?tid=4313)
Marksman or Bowmaster - Rei - 2008-10-16
Greg Wrote:Mmm, I understand you're just giving your opinion, Rei, but a 15x Marksman that states that a Bowmaster has a better 4th confuses me. What makes their Hurricane any better than what you've got by 155? What're you facing as a Marksman that has you unmotivated? Your response could influence the OP's decision.
HI ALEX line-dot.
I don't see how it confuses you. Simply put, Bowmasters > Marksmen in just about everything, just like KaidaTan said.
You ever consider how Hurricane can also be considered a mob skill?
The whole point of mob skills is to reduce the amount of overkilling you do.
Since Hurricane's arrows move on to the next target after the first is killed, there's no overkilling. Also since the attack itself is very fast so transition's immediate.
Suree Pierce can hit 200k+, but what's the point? It'll leave the monsters in the front alive almost every time, and I'd rather have each hit do 90k than the last two do over 200k.
Ohh but there's new monsters coming out huh? That doesn't help since actually having to mob them around [and most of them are huge] takes way too long. ALSO THE HORRIBLY LONG CHARGE.
Three seconds doesn't sound like a lot, but when a Bishop can kill 10+ targets in the time you simply charge your Pierce, it looks a bit inferior.
Also, a friend of mine said that I was strong for a Marksman, but weak for an unfunded Bowmaster. I can't help but agree. f3.
So it doesn't really matter about being the strongest/godliest, your Strafe damage will differ very little from someone with decent equipment.
Notice how nobody bothered to dupe a perfect Shiner Cross?
I don't see how everyone brings strategy and a variety of skills into MM vs. BM arguments.
When you train, you want the most things dead in the least amount of time.
If one skill [Hurricane] does that, then what does it matter if you don't jump around trying to position yourself, blizzard everything, push everything into a mob, set yourself to charge, and finally kill?
For bossing: Strafe is incredibly slow. I can't even keep HH pinned.
Sure, I can get Pap pinned but once he tries to heal I'm scrambling waiting for one of my Strafes to finally hit and push him back again. But in that amount of time he's advanced far enough to use Dispel and/or Stun.
Any perks from being a Marksman are trivial.
Compliments for being unique? lolthnx.
Inexpensive scrolls and weapons? You'll buy them for cheap, sell godlies for cheap.
Anything else, a Bowmaster has as well.
LASTLY. MY FAVOURITE THING TO HEAR.
"y dont u use hurricane?"
I guess I am being a bit biased huh?
Oh well, it's all true.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Sihan - 2008-10-16
I guess..but i heard from alot of people that marksman are "fun" because they use a variety of skills, but me, personaly i like bossing, so i guess i'll choose BM? lol idk..
Marksman or Bowmaster - Technolink - 2008-10-16
BM and MM are pretty much the same at bosses. All anyone cares about is that you have SE. That's it.
Now of course hurricane is used most of the time, which makes BMs more favorible then MMs, but you really won't notice a difference. Most HT/Zak parties have no, or very little preferance over whihc class to take... as long as they have maxed SE.
Marksman or Bowmaster - KaidaTan - 2008-10-16
Technolink Wrote:BM and MM are pretty much the same at bosses. All anyone cares about is that you have SE. That's it.
Now of course hurricane is used most of the time, which makes BMs more favorible then MMs, but you really won't notice a difference. Most HT/Zak parties have no, or very little preferance over whihc class to take... as long as they have maxed SE.
I beg to differ. Given the choice, I'm sure any squad will take a BM over an equally equipped/leveled MM. I'm sure that particular situation is rare, but that's definitely what would happen.
As for the actual bossing, MMs and BMs are NOT equal. Marksmen cannot pin Anego in the least, KB Pap's 2nd form to the wall consistently, or fight BG A at all. Furthermore they have to deal with that nasty 100ish attack limit and having a weaker bird. Bowmasters are simply far and away the best class for solo bossing. They have the right skills to make it easy and fast.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Rei - 2008-10-16
KaidaTan Wrote:I beg to differ. Given the choice, I'm sure any squad will take a BM over an equally equipped/leveled MM. I'm sure that particular situation is rare, but that's definitely what would happen.
As for the actual bossing, MMs and BMs are NOT equal. Marksmen cannot pin Anego in the least, KB Pap's 2nd form to the wall consistently, or fight BG A at all. Furthermore they have to deal with that nasty 100ish attack limit and having a weaker bird. Bowmasters are simply far and away the best class for solo bossing. They have the right skills to make it easy and fast.
I told you before, Alex.
Marksmen CAN pin 2nd form Pap. I do it all the time. D;
Then again, there's that all-too-often chance of Strafe hitting no criticals and he comes flying at me.
Another reason why Hurricane is superior. What's the chances of hitting no criticals in 8 arrows per second?
But you're right about everything else. Especially that attack limit. Ughh.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Acim - 2008-10-16
Synyster Wrote:I guess..but i heard from alot of people that marksman are "fun" because they use a variety of skills, but me, personaly i like bossing, so i guess i'll choose BM? lol idk..
Don't take it from me, I don't know much about bowmen and "fun" is dependant on the person, but from playing a crossbow man and a hunter, both up to 6x, I liked the hunter better. Of course, they're better at bossing in the fourth, and I don't mind having one main skill, like assassins using Lucky Seven forever, so they're both fun for me.
Bleh, whatever. I personally like bowmasters better, but it's your decision to make.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Sihan - 2008-10-16
One reason i'm choosing bowman is for bossing, so i guess i'll go with the BM path.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Mark - 2008-10-16
KaidaTan Wrote:I beg to differ. Given the choice, I'm sure any squad will take a BM over an equally equipped/leveled MM. I'm sure that particular situation is rare, but that's definitely what would happen.
As for the actual bossing, MMs and BMs are NOT equal. Marksmen cannot pin Anego in the least, KB Pap's 2nd form to the wall consistently, or fight BG A at all. Furthermore they have to deal with that nasty 100ish attack limit and having a weaker bird. Bowmasters are simply far and away the best class for solo bossing. They have the right skills to make it easy and fast.
Umm...I dunno about you, but I'm a Marksman and I can keep Anego/2nd form of Pap against the wall if I wanted them to be. Bowmasters might kill things faster, but Marksman can solo just as well.
Marksman or Bowmaster - KaidaTan - 2008-10-16
Opeth Wrote:Umm...I dunno about you, but I'm a Marksman and I can keep Anego/2nd form of Pap against the wall if I wanted them to be.
I don't know what kind of physics breaking you're doing, but I'm quite sure it's impossible for a Marksman to get Anego past the window by himself. Second form Pap is more pinnable, but he catches up on you massively if you fail to crit on a Strafe. So yeah, you guys can pin him, but it's much less reliable than Hurricane.
Opeth Wrote:Bowmasters might kill things faster, but Marksman can solo just as well.
Go solo BG A.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Mark - 2008-10-16
KaidaTan Wrote:I don't know what kind of physics breaking you're doing, but I'm quite sure it's impossible for a Marksman to get Anego past the window by himself. Second form Pap is more pinnable, but he catches up on you massively if you fail to crit on a Strafe. So yeah, you guys can pin him, but it's much less reliable than Hurricane.
So, keeping Anego pinned at all doesn't count?
Quote:Go solo BG A.
No. ;[
Marksman or Bowmaster - RachelGreene - 2008-10-16
Keeping anego pinned =/= pinning anego to the wall
Marksman or Bowmaster - Mark - 2008-10-16
What the hells the difference?
I'm sure if Anego didn't have some weird boundaries I could push the b'itch wherever I felt like.
Marksman or Bowmaster - RachelGreene - 2008-10-16
Opeth Wrote:What the hells the difference?The difference is pretty obvious o.O
pinning anego to the wall = you do it urself
keeping anego pinned = someone else pins the anego to the wall, and you just hold it there.
Opeth Wrote:I'm sure if Anego didn't have some weird boundaries I could push the b'itch wherever I felt like.Duh.. That's what people have been talking about. Strafe can't kb the anego past the window. Otherwise we wouldnt be comparing BM and MM at anego.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Mark - 2008-10-16
Okay, but you're missing my point.
No matter WHERE Anego is, if you can keep her back it's still pinning.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Sihan - 2008-10-16
Can you guys just stop..?
Marksman or Bowmaster - Shaddap - 2008-10-17
RachelGreene Wrote:Duh.. That's what people have been talking about. Strafe can't kb the anego past the window. Otherwise we wouldnt be comparing BM and MM at anego.
Wow, you're so full of crap. lmao I solo Anego all the time with just strafe and sniping alone, every hit is a knockback. And only a noob would think that pinning is the only method to kill Anego alone. Keeping her on the left side is essentially the same damn thing and easier in my opinion, just hit her once, plant puppet, and hit nonstop.
Also, just for the record, I've outks'ed bowmasters and night lords at Anego with the raised damage cap of sniping, which GMS will eventually get. Regardless of the speed hurricane has, at bosses, NOTHING a bowmaster has touches the sheer amount of damage a marksman can do in a minute's time.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Mark - 2008-10-17
Shaddap Wrote:Wow, you're so full of crap. lmao I solo Anego all the time with just strafe and sniping alone, every hit is a knockback. And only a noob would think that pinning is the only method to kill Anego alone. Keeping her on the left side is essentially the same damn thing and easier in my opinion, just hit her once, plant puppet, and hit nonstop.
Also, just for the record, I've outks'ed bowmasters and night lords at Anego with the raised damage cap of sniping, which GMS will eventually get. Regardless of the speed hurricane has, at bosses, NOTHING a bowmaster has touches the sheer amount of damage a marksman can do in a minute's time.
I like you.
Autograph please.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Rei - 2008-10-17
Shaddap Wrote:Wow, you're so full of crap. lmao I solo Anego all the time with just strafe and sniping alone, every hit is a knockback. And only a noob would think that pinning is the only method to kill Anego alone. Keeping her on the left side is essentially the same damn thing and easier in my opinion, just hit her once, plant puppet, and hit nonstop.
Also, just for the record, I've outks'ed bowmasters and night lords at Anego with the raised damage cap of sniping, which GMS will eventually get. Regardless of the speed hurricane has, at bosses, NOTHING a bowmaster has touches the sheer amount of damage a marksman can do in a minute's time.
You mention that incident several times.
Does it happen regularly?
I'm glad Sniping got an improvement but you make it seem so epic. Like it's something that brings Marksmen over the top.
No doubt it's a huge boost to them, but I think you're a little full of a victory at Anego.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Mark - 2008-10-17
200,000 damage every 10 seconds sounds pretty epic, does it not? That's not counting the strafes in between.
Marksman or Bowmaster - Chameleonic - 2008-10-17
If you like bossing(solo or party) Bowmaster is the way to go. A lv 150ish BM soloed Zak 90 minutes faster than a lv 164 MM...see thread on SW.
http://www.sleepywood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1442716&highlight=solo
http://www.sleepywood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1417297&highlight=solo