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+---- Thread: Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames (/showthread.php?tid=34115)
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - Jamie_Kurosawa - 2010-12-12
Don't ditz the Paladins until you've been around them long enough, used one, and been there and done that, whatever it may be.
Paladins actually have been highly favored over Heroes in a lot of Boss runs and PQs for one simple reason. Rage overrides Onyx Apples. Paladins and their subclasses only have Threaten which a dozen or so versions back started working on bosses. A weakened boss does less damage mind you. The recent balance prior to BB changed Threaten from a preset number based status attack to a percentage based status attack.
Plus Heaven's Hammer always did a huge chunk of Maximum damage 199,999 (new post-BB has yet to be accurately calculated since the damage cap was increased) to every monster on the field. This meant every 20 seconds a Paladin could smash a huge chunk of HP off a boss where normally damage was going at 55,000 ~ 100,000 points even with rapid firing techniques. Plus HH has one nasty and sneaky ability less known. It cuts through and bypasses two skills used by monsters... Damage Reflection and Damage/Magic Block.
Now granted not all bosses have an elemental weakness like Pianus does with Fire or Ergoth with Holy, but the element charge does have one distinct advantage over Combo Charge and Berserk. Element Charge doesn't require hits to boost it's power, nor does it require crippled HP levels.
I always called Paladins one thing:
A Walking Death Machine.
Brute force is one thing, but finding weaknesses and exploiting them is so much more fun and sadistic. And if it doesn't have a weakness, just take out the good ol' giant hammer and beat it to death.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - WillDaSnail - 2010-12-12
octopusprime Wrote:I have never even made a spearman and i know your class better than you do.
Sacrifice ignores PDR. Or in simple terms it hits through defence and damage reduction on monsters. For bosses it's huge. for everything else it doesnt matter, every class tears through everything now.
Pre-BB, I never made constant use of Sacrifice.
In my defense, I know the skill and what it does. The only reason I use it (before BB patch came out) is not to tear through monsters, but to keep myself in Berzerk mode if I overpot. Even now, I'm still hesistant to regularly use this skill due to its HP cost (I use a pot every 3-4 skill casts based on my current HP and Berserk level), despite the fact that I can now use and abuse it while in full-HP Berserk mode. (high damage output)
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - octopusprime - 2010-12-12
WillDaSnail Wrote:Pre-BB, I never made constant use of Sacrifice.
In my defense, I know the skill and what it does. The only reason I use it (before BB patch came out) is not to tear through monsters, but to keep myself in Berzerk mode if I overpot. Even now, I'm still hesistant to regularly use this skill due to its HP cost (I use a pot every 3-4 skill casts based on my current HP and Berserk level), despite the fact that I can now use and abuse it while in full-HP Berserk mode. (high damage output)
you'll just use it in single target situations so mainly bossing. since you shouldnt be worried about pot use in boss run, it'll be just a matter of building the habit.
Crusher/fury are still great training skills like always. and like every other class, drks can tear through mobs faster than they could pre bb.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - MetaSeraphim - 2010-12-12
octopusprime Wrote:For bosses it's huge.
Supposedly, it doesn't work on bosses.
Jamie_Kurosawa Wrote:Don't ditz the Paladins until you've been around them long enough, used one, and been there and done that, whatever it may be.
Don't believe anyone is doing that in this thread. It's just a cute nickname. I have a Paladin and call it a Loladin, and there are many high level Paladins who call themselves Loladins even now.
Jamie_Kurosawa Wrote:Paladins actually have been highly favored over Heroes in a lot of Boss runs and PQs for one simple reason. Rage overrides Onyx Apples. Paladins and their subclasses only have Threaten which a dozen or so versions back started working on bosses. A weakened boss does less damage mind you. The recent balance prior to BB changed Threaten from a preset number based status attack to a percentage based status attack.
The rest of that is true. Paladins are handy for Threaten and now Combat Orders. But, about the other thing you said. If any Hero is using rage during a boss run then they're a fail Hero who shouldn't even be talked about.
Jamie_Kurosawa Wrote:Now granted not all bosses have an elemental weakness like Pianus does with Fire or Ergoth with Holy, but the element charge does have one distinct advantage over Combo Charge and Berserk. Element Charge doesn't require hits to boost it's power, nor does it require crippled HP levels.
I'll sort of give you Combo Charge even though anyone skilled with a Hero will have their Combo fully charged by the time a Paladin has put on both their elements and started attacking just one monster. But, Berserk having a crippled HP level? I didn't know keeping your HP above 20% was crippling. Most Dark Knights should have at least 20k HP if not more by the time they have maxed Berserk, and 20% of 20k is 4k, before then you should have already potted so there is no crippling HP thing with Berserk. I dare say that Berserk is the best out of Elemental Charges and Combo Charge because it's always active and going, there is no need to cast it, there is no need to build it up, you always have it going as long as you're above 20% HP which shouldn't be a problem unless you're spamming Sacrifice or Dragon's Roar.
Jamie_Kurosawa Wrote:Brute force is one thing, but finding weaknesses and exploiting them is so much more fun and sadistic. And if it doesn't have a weakness, just take out the good ol' giant hammer and beat it to death.
Heroes and Dark Knight also do this, Heroes a little less. While Dark Knights and Heroes don't have elemental attacks they do have a range of attacks for whatever job they need to do. Heroes are a little limited, but Dark Knights are masters of different attacks. Fury for big mobs, Crusher for smaller high HP mobs, Sacrifice for big bad single targets, and even an AoE skill.
In terms of attacks I would say Dark Knights are equal with Paladins since they have some of the same stuff, and Heroes come in second.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - octopusprime - 2010-12-12
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Supposedly, it doesn't work on bosses.
according to extractions it does.
and if it is not working properly now (some consider a possability), it will be 100% for sure when restructuring hits.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - Taiketo - 2010-12-12
Jamie_Kurosawa Wrote:Now granted not all bosses have an elemental weakness like Pianus does with Fire or Ergoth with Holy, but the element charge does have one distinct advantage over Combo Charge and Berserk. Element Charge doesn't require hits to boost it's power, nor does it require crippled HP levels.
Ergoth is and always has been resistant to holy, and all other paladin usable elements...
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - dpeterlin - 2010-12-12
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Supposedly, it doesn't work on bosses.
It does work on bosses -- I have ss proof if you need it.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - MetaSeraphim - 2010-12-12
octopusprime Wrote:according to extractions it does.
I was going off that at some point it saying it didn't work on bosses. But that seems untrue after a Pap run last night.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - Stereo - 2010-12-12
Jamie_Kurosawa Wrote:Plus Heaven's Hammer always did a huge chunk of Maximum damage 199,999 (new post-BB has yet to be accurately calculated since the damage cap was increased) to every monster on the field. This meant every 20 seconds a Paladin could smash a huge chunk of HP off a boss where normally damage was going at 55,000 ~ 100,000 points even with rapid firing techniques. Plus HH has one nasty and sneaky ability less known. It cuts through and bypasses two skills used by monsters... Damage Reflection and Damage/Magic Block.
HH is a fixed amount of damage, and that is its weakest point. Upgrade your gear and HH still does 200k damage.
Also, sanity check - HH takes 3.3 seconds to cast (base) + 20 second cooldown (when maxed)
Blast takes 0.84 seconds (base). ACB takes 0.8 seconds.
That means you get 3.92 blasts for every HH, or 4.12 ACBs.
Pre-BB, this meant 51k Blast or 49k ACB per target was the minimum necessary in order to discard HH entirely. I don't know about you, but I've been dealing that kind of damage for a while on elemental targets, and even on single neutral targets, 51k is a pretty easy target.
Post-BB, it's tougher - it's possible 255k per Blast is the minimum to disregard HH entirely, if it's actually able to hit the new damage cap. But still, once every 20 seconds is not a good damage bonus. And I suspect I can hit that 255k mark in a party situation, especially with GMS gear and apples.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - Jamie_Kurosawa - 2010-12-13
However Stereo remember the damage cap from BB rose to 999,999. HH does at most 1440% damage now, and not just 199,999. By all aspects The 1440% rate would be higher than 199,999 damage now. I don't know what the actual number could be but given the calculation against your stats, you could probably take a wild guess. However I guess that any normal monster will have HP lowered to 1, while on bosses it does the true damage rate unless it has higher damage than the boss's HP which by all means lowers it down to 1 HP.
Quote:If any Hero is using rage during a boss run then they're a fail Hero who shouldn't even be talked about.
Meta... you have no idea how many times I have had that happen... although once I did chalk it up to carelessness due to someone not properly changing skill sets for a boss run.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - Kalovale - 2010-12-13
Just nitpicking two things:
- Stereo did account for the 1m damage cap,
- Loladins were never favored over anything before Adventurer Rebalancing, at which point Threaten was made useful.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - Sorien - 2010-12-13
Cyber Akuma Wrote:I've always called them failadins/phailadin.
Well then I'm going to call them Windins.....
Jamie_Kurosaw Wrote:Brute force is one thing, but finding weaknesses and exploiting them is so much more fun and sadistic. And if it doesn't have a weakness, just take out the good ol' giant hammer and beat it to death.
I've got to say, that sums up how I felt about paladins up until BB. I've always loved them, but with the recent changes making us tanks as well as sabatures and elementalists I love them on a whole new level.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - Stereo - 2010-12-13
So what damage does my Paladin do on Apples, anyway? I guess that's relevant to figuring out whether to HH.
Well... 250000 damage per neutral Blast. And that's without any crit enhancing skills (SE, Thorns), on a 50%PDR target.
So yeah, I'm fairly near the damage line where it's worth using HH on single targets.
Even with Warrior Elixirs, I do about 234k / 274k(DS) damage per blast on Holy-weak targets.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - Jamie_Kurosawa - 2010-12-13
The problem is with Heaven's Hammer there's no real accurate way to get a proper reading off it. If HH showed it's actual damage, one could argue with what HH actually does. However, I'm guessing... calculate your top end ATT range against 1440% (w/ CO) and it might give some clue, but then again... HH is rather weird because it's always supposed to do max damage -1 HP.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - donovan - 2010-12-13
Wrong thread.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - Taiketo - 2010-12-13
HH does do 1mil, test it on pap's second form, it takes about 2/3's of his HP bar away.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - Jamie_Kurosawa - 2010-12-13
Holy Hell!!!
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - CrazyNomad - 2010-12-14
Taiketo Wrote:HH does do 1mil, test it on pap's second form, it takes about 2/3's of his HP bar away.
yeah, i tested it in various mobs/ bosses, it for sure do 1mil dmg.
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - Dusk - 2010-12-14
1m damage for a skill you can use only once per 20 seconds makes almost no difference on your damage.
| Average Blast damage | Base DPS | DPS with max HH |
|---|---|---|
| 100k | 145k | 175k |
| 150k | 217k | 238k |
| 200k | 290k | 301k |
| 250k | 362k | 363k |
Post-BB Warrior Class Nicknames - Jamie_Kurosawa - 2010-12-14
Yeah but it is the ONLY ultimate that can do 1 mil damage without any potions, potential, etc.