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+--- Thread: The TSA's new scanners (/showthread.php?tid=33102)
The TSA's new scanners - FrozNlite - 2010-11-22
http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/11/22/travel.tsa.pat.downs/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29
What I love is how John Pistole tries to calm the fury by saying:
"Very few people actually receive the pat down. In spite of all the public furor about this, very few people do."
The fact this thread exists defeats the purpose of his statement, in that the pat-down is only given if people refuse to go through the new enhanced imaging scanners, which, as they OP has shown us, provide a chillingly accurate picture of the person. On top of that, the fact that one such picture exists on this thread shows the security of the photos, which has also been in question this past week as hundreds of them have been leaked online, violating the apparent rule that TSA employees must delete the picture immediately following the scan.
I don't know what the best course of action would be for now (though, as the Michigan resident Thomas Sawyer told CNN in the above article, the first change that should come is re-education of TSA employees), but when your choices as a commercial passenger are to either (1) submit to a full-body enhanced imaging scan that shows a lot more than you'd imagine, and has been an issue in the past week due to photo leaks, or (2) submit to a full-body, enhanced pat-down that will most likely be embarrassing or, in worse scenarios like that of Sawyers, detrimental to one's personal belongings, something clearly needs to be done.
The TSA's new scanners - Birdie - 2010-11-22
Zelkova Wrote:Penn Jillette of Penn&Teller had a nice confrontation with the TSA
http://www.pennandteller.com/03/coolstuff/penniphile/roadpennfederalvip.html
haha good read.
But i dont see what the big deal is. Is every person boarding a plane going to go through this scanner or is the scanner a step after the metal detector goes off? It seems to me like the average person who has nothing to hide should never even need to be scanned by this machine and it should be no big deal.
The TSA's new scanners - Nikkey - 2010-11-22
Roxas Wrote:They capture a creeeeepy amount of detail
I'll just put up a ton of different urls here:
http://www.mybottlesup.com/2009/10/tsa-agents-took-my-son/
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/22/scientist-x-ray-scan.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/22/lawmakers-seek-probe-tsas-pat-training-reported-misbehavior/
http://www.examiner.com/county-political-buzz-in-san-diego/tsa-airport-screeners-gone-wild-san-diego-again
http://wdbo.com/localnews/2010/11/sanford-airport-to-opt-out-of.html
http://www.baltimoresun.com/wreg-pilot-protest,0,3912420.story
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/lifestyle/travel/flight-attendants-union-upset-over-new-pat-down-procedures
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/19/eveningnews/main6500349.shtml
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/roberts-m1.1.1.html
http://blogs.forbes.com/artcarden/2010/11/14/full-frontal-nudity-doesnt-make-us-safer-abolish-the-tsa/
Here's a vid of what's going on too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skkCpnCm7iM
The funny part is that TSA has not caught a single terrorist yet.
The TSA's new scanners - Kunagisa - 2010-11-22
Devil's Sunrise Wrote:The funny part is that TSA has not caught a single terrorist yet.
But that's because they're doing such a good job with their security measures that terrorists are scared to board the plane!
The TSA's new scanners - Mute - 2010-11-22
Kunagisa Wrote:But that's because they're doing such a good job with their security measures that terrorists are scared to board the plane!
Nope! They just send a fuggin PRINTER WITH A CELL PHONE CORD through the UPS freight/cargo planes.
Bush was right when he said Mission Accomplished, too bad he got the teams ass backwards.
The TSA's new scanners - Erich - 2010-11-22
They really need to be checking for people coming into the country. Make agreements with other countries that if you want to send planes into our country, you need to do x y and z checks with our own people. Otherwise you ain't getting in. The threat isn't that internal anymore; we need to be checked to some extent still, but not like this. But, the scanning is still better then the "love pats" you'd normally get.
The TSA's new scanners - Mute - 2010-11-22
Erich Wrote:They really need to be checking for people coming into the country. Make agreements with other countries that if you want to send planes into our country, you need to do x y and z checks with our own people. Otherwise you ain't getting in. The threat isn't that internal anymore; we need to be checked to some extent still, but not like this. But, the scanning is still better then the "love pats" you'd normally get.
Thing is that duty then falls on the heads of other nations, and that threatening to seclude ourselves from the rest of the world due to our own leader's paranoia would spell the downfall of this nation sooner than any depression could. We rely on the rest of the world heavily this day and age.
The TSA's new scanners - Kunagisa - 2010-11-22
Devil's Sunrise Wrote:http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/22/scientist-x-ray-scan.html
Kunagisa Wrote:Inb4 they discover this causes cancer like everything else does and a shitstorm comes up.
The TSA's new scanners - Kalovale - 2010-11-22
Stop flying until they get the damned message?
The TSA's new scanners - Mike - 2010-11-22
I'm flying on Wednesday and the airport here doesn't have those scanners according to the TSA list... for now.
Really though, I'm not that freaked out about these new scanners.
The TSA's new scanners - Mira - 2010-11-23
When I went to Florida at the start of this month, they made me go through this scanner AND get a pat down, all because I had metal clips on a wrap on my foot. I had a sprained ankle. I'm afraid of how much radiation that thing gave off...
The TSA's new scanners - Cyadd - 2010-11-23
Next summer I'll be going back home to Hungary. It'll be interesting to see if this trend continues until then. I wonder if I draw a smiley face on my penis, if they can pick that up. As for myself, I have nothing against the TSA for this. They might be doing it wrong, but I'd rather they do this then not and say they did. Maybe my opinion will change once I actually fly again.
The TSA's new scanners - SethElite - 2010-11-23
Cyadd Wrote:Next summer I'll be going back home to Hungary. It'll be interesting to see if this trend continues until then. I wonder if I draw a smiley face on my penis, if they can pick that up. As for myself, I have nothing against the TSA for this. They might be doing it wrong, but I'd rather they do this then not and say they did. Maybe my opinion will change once I actually fly again.
It would probably show up if you used lead paint.
Probably some safer alternatives as well, but I don't know them off the top of my head.
The TSA's new scanners - madanthony - 2010-11-23
Mira Wrote:When I went to Florida at the start of this month, they made me go through this scanner AND get a pat down, all because I had metal clips on a wrap on my foot. I had a sprained ankle. I'm afraid of how much radiation that thing gave off...A pomegranateload.
I cannot begin to express my rage with the TSA right now. This is the straw that has broken liberty's back in my book. In the past I was willing to overlook little things, stupid bureaucratic decisions, obvious power-mongering and grossly negligent fiscal policy and a generally retarded public, but for some reason this culmination of all things TSA in the last month have truly made me ashamed of my country.
The TSA's new scanners - Eos - 2010-11-23
I don't care. American's puritan heritage has them so tight-assed about nudity you'd think they were being put as risk of rape or something. You have a body. Big whoop. Every other living being does too. They're not that special. They're not that shameful. Get over it and move through damn scanner or get out of my way so I can because I have things to do beyond listening to everyone whine.
Birdie Wrote:But i dont see what the big deal is. Is every person boarding a plane going to go through this scanner or is the scanner a step after the metal detector goes off?
This scanner is what replaces the metal detectors in most larger airports. Everyone going into a boarding area has to pass through one.
The TSA's new scanners - madanthony - 2010-11-23
Missing the point, Eos
Eosian Wrote:I don't care. American's puritan heritage has them so tight-assed about nudity you'd think they were being put as risk of rape or something. You have a body. Big whoop. Every other living being does too. They're not that special. They're not that shameful. Get over it and move through damn scanner or get out of my way so I can because I have things to do beyond listening to everyone whine.Which Constitution-protected rights would you like to voluntarily give up next?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni4GVWvT2Zs#t=0m37s
^In which a former TSA administrator straight up says they're violating your 4th amendment rights.
The TSA's new scanners - Eos - 2010-11-23
madanthony Wrote:Missing the point, Eos
Which Constitution-protected rights would you like to voluntarily give up next?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni4GVWvT2Zs#t=0m37s
^In which a former TSA administrator straight up says they're violating your 4th amendment rights.
"Unreasonable" is subjective.
I for example have already stated I see nothing unreasonable about scanning me in a non-intrusive manner for weapons.
Forgoing that to be patted down in the name of modesty is an active choice.
4th Ammendment isn't even relevant here. We're not talking about officers randomly pulling over people without warning and strip searching them on the side of the road for kicks. We're talking about an institutionalized scan all passengers are equally subjected to. 4th amendment doesn't apply to searches at borders or airports except to require " \searches that intrude upon a traveler's personal dignity and privacy interests, such as strip and body cavity searches, must be supported by "reasonable suspicion." " which again, everyone treated equally is met.
The TSA's new scanners - madanthony - 2010-11-23
Eosian Wrote:"Unreasonable" is subjective.Subjectivity goes both ways and I feel like it's appropriate to err on the side of not violating people's rights.
I for example have already stated I see nothing unreasonable about scanning me in a non-intrusive manner for weapons.
Forgoing that to be patted down in the name of modesty is an active choice.
4th Ammendment isn't even relevant here. We're not talking about officers randomly pulling over people without warning and strip searching them on the side of the road for kicks. We're talking about an institutionalized scan all passengers are equally subjected to. 4th amendment doesn't apply to searches at borders or airports except to require " \searches that intrude upon a traveler's personal dignity and privacy interests, such as strip and body cavity searches, must be supported by "reasonable suspicion." " which again, everyone treated equally is met.
As an individual, it isn't to the point where I would drive to a destination that is better reached by flying. But I have come to the conclusion that I would opt-out for the sake of not complying with the TSA and depending on my mood, I'm the kind of guy who might finish my pat-down with a snide remark about happy endings. Looking at the use of full-body scans as a new policy in a vacuum, it's not particularly egregious. My frustration lies in the little things- subjecting children to the scanner/pat-down (what do you say to them after you've taught them it isn't okay for strangers to touch their genitals or take innappropriate pictures of them?), Chertoff's brazen conflict of interest, the fact that our national politicians are exempt when flying publicly, the complete lack of discussion on how we could do this better, the fact that I don't feel any safer, and the question of what comes next when some guy beats this system. Sure, everyone else on my flight may get some peace of mind knowing I've been scanned, even though I know I have no weapon on myself.
After giving it a little thought, you're got some truth in what you say, and I imagine a 4th amendment argument would be unlikely to hold up in court, but that really only serves to disappoint me more.
tl;dr
Politcally speaking, nothing scares me more than an Orwellian future and if we don't fight it over this, what are we going to fight against it for?
The TSA's new scanners - Nikkey - 2010-11-23
Kunagisa Wrote:But that's because they're doing such a good job with their security measures that terrorists are scared to board the plane!
[video=youtube;q3yaqq9Jjb4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3yaqq9Jjb4[/video]
wgat.
The TSA's new scanners - madanthony - 2010-11-23
Devil's Sunrise Wrote:[video=youtube;q3yaqq9Jjb4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3yaqq9Jjb4[/video]
wgat.
I love the comments on the reddit thread. Just a laundry list of dangerous objects effortlessly brought on to planes.