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+--- Thread: The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread (/showthread.php?tid=3137)
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Afrobean - 2008-09-07
Devil Wrote:Oh if you want to make them for magicians, feel free to do so, because I still have no good idea how to compare wdef and mdef to each other... Feel free to post all the stats here, then i'll add them to the start post! I have no idea how the current magic damage formula works, since I last used the old (not so precise) one more then 2 years ago!I wouldn't want to put myself in a position to pick magic stats that are comparable to the stats you're assuming for the other classes. And if I recall, there's someone close to cracking a more logical formula, one that doesn't use crazy decimals in standard quadratic form.
Also: I'm not even familiar with the specifics of how mdef functions. In fact, when the stat is the same, and the function of comparison is only to compare theoretical worth, def and/or mdef mean nothing. Like, if you have two values, 5 and 3, and you subtract one from each, it shows as 4 and 2. But the difference between 5 and 3 is equal to the difference between 4 and 2. But with wdef and mdef working differently it is worth considering.
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Russt - 2008-09-07
I'm not close, though Nekonecat of SW was. The magic one is a pretty difficult one to just pull out of a data chart, since if you divide by spell attack and subtract off the negligible INT bonus, what you have left is purely determined by total magic. There are no secondary stats to mess with. And secondary stats are really important for this kind of stuff.
Closest I can get is subtract max-min to find the range, and use that to divide the damage into mastery-affected and mastery-unaffected parts, but that's still somewhat iffy.
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Dusk - 2008-09-07
Afrobean Wrote:Also: since when is "damage per minute" a standard of measurement? Things like this more often work by a "damage per second" standard. Furthermore, punching it down to smaller numbers makes it easier to understand the variances in averages. And along this line, I'd also like to point out that certain skills need to be computed on an average basis based on how long the skills are able to be used or how often they can be used. Think about Pirates, they can't use their transformed states constantly. Other skills have cooldowns or require combos to be built up.
He isn't calculating damage per minute, he's just using the number of attacks per minute as a means for comparison. His end results are just proportional to each other, with no obvious relationship to actual damage per minute.
And yeah, adding information for nontransformed Pirates would be nice, they look overpowered as they are.
Afrobean Wrote:I wouldn't want to put myself in a position to pick magic stats that are comparable to the stats you're assuming for the other classes. And if I recall, there's someone close to cracking a more logical formula, one that doesn't use crazy decimals in standard quadratic form.I think that would be rather easy, he's just running the numbers as if every equipment was pure 60%ed. It's a good average, I think, although I still think that if you have a 20 att Maple Shield, you're probably rich enough to afford something better than +14 for a weapon.
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Russt - 2008-09-07
On the contrary, the title of this thread says 'DPM Thread'.
As it stands it's more like a 'DPArbitraryButProportionalAmountOfTime Thread'.
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Dusk - 2008-09-09
Eh, the Vipers and Captains still need numbers for untransformed.
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Devil - 2008-09-09
Dusk Wrote:Eh, the Vipers and Captains still need numbers for untransformed.Feel free to provide us with the timings and stats of those skills my friend!
I have no idea how Fist's damage is calculated, nor it's attacks per minute, same goes for Advanced Homing and Rapid Fire...
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - D-F1am3 - 2008-09-09
paladins can use lunchboxes right?o_o
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Takebacker - 2008-09-09
If i remember right, rapid fires at 480 SPM (or however much hurricane fires at, they're pretty much the same speed-wise).
For advanced homing you probably just have to multiply whatever the % of the skill being used is by 1.2. GS's don't have crit so it isn't as confusing. Though if they had SE, i can't help you with that.
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Devil - 2008-09-09
Another update! Added Onyx Apples to several classes for Party DPM!
D-F1am3 Wrote:paladins can use lunchboxes right?o_oI'll add those tomorrow!
Don't expect too much of it btw, since Paladins's non-elemental damage (read: bosses) is not that high...
Takebacker Wrote:If i remember right, rapid fires at 480 SPM (or however much hurricane fires at, they're pretty much the same speed-wise).Hurricane is 500 SPM atm... I would assume that Rapid Fire would have the same speed... unless Nexon nerfed it for some reason... (bullet consumption?
For advanced homing you probably just have to multiply whatever the % of the skill being used is by 1.2. GS's don't have crit so it isn't as confusing. Though if they had SE, i can't help you with that.
) Hmmmm... confusing... :o
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Takebacker - 2008-09-09
Devil Wrote:Another update! Added Onyx Apples to several classes for Party DPM!
I'll add those tomorrow!
Don't expect too much of it btw, since Paladins's non-elemental damage (read: bosses) is not that high...
Hurricane is 500 SPM atm... I would assume that Rapid Fire would have the same speed... unless Nexon nerfed it for some reason... (bullet consumption?
Hmmmm... confusing... :o
It's probably 500 then. Lol, they're the same in SPM. Rapid isn't their main attack anyway, i just want to know the DPM.
Also, this officially confirms that cannon >>> demolition yes?
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Devil - 2008-09-09
Takebacker Wrote:It's probably 500 then. Lol, they're the same in SPM. Rapid isn't their main attack anyway, i just want to know the DPM.I need to know how Battleship works:
Also, this officially confirms that cannon >>> demolition yes?
- What happens to it when you "demount" from it, and resummon it (is that possible? Is it back 100% strength?)
- How much damage can a ship take before it's destroyed?
If you can demount and resummon all the time and if it would reset itself, then Battleship would be quite usefull for bosses indeed, and it would make a good rival for demolition.
Also keep in mind that Captains need a "Bishop / Dark Knight / Captain / X / X / X" party, because of their low HP, resulting is a DPM that is a lot lower then a 6 Viper party, because of only 4 (instead of 6) High DPM attackers...
Edit: Added "Rapid Fire DPM" - If it is indeed 500 SPM...
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Takebacker - 2008-09-09
Devil Wrote:I need to know how Battleship works:
- What happens to it when you "demount" from it, and resummon it (is that possible? Is it back 100% strength?)
- How much damage can a ship take before it's destroyed?
If you can demount and resummon all the time and if it would reset itself, then Battleship would be quite usefull for bosses indeed, and it would make a good rival for demolition.
Also keep in mind that Captains need a "Bishop / Dark Knight / Captain / X / X / X" party, because of their low HP, resulting is a DPM that is a lot lower then a 6 Viper party, because of only 4 (instead of 6) High DPM attackers...
Battleship is pretty much exactly the same as a mount.
-The only thing demounting does is protect your ship from damage (essential for bossing so it doesn't break down so easily, a good captain should be able to demount whenever he's about to take damage and remount to attack again) and allow you to use other skills (reactivating advanced homing for example). I'm PRETTY darn sure that if you remount, it still remembers the damage left until it breaks down. Meaning remounting won't reset the threshold to 0 again.
-That's the only thing i don't know. KMS captains max it after cannon though, so the difference between level 1 and 10 must be significant considering the few minutes of cooldown you gain if it breaks down. From what i've seen in videos though, the threshold is actually fairly big (i'm thinking anywhere from 50-75k? MAYBE 100k, but that's a major stretch)
Vipers would probably need DrKs and bishops anyway. Their HP is only roughly twice that of a shadowers (which is fair since shadowers have 50% damage from MG and it's REALLY hard to hit them in the first place anyway) and so they'd still need to use HB to survive. Bishops are self explanatory. Lol. Best party = DrK, bishop, shadower, viper, captain x2? Imagine smoke shell and spamming cannon. Epic.
Captains actually have more HP than BMs. (like 200-300 or so) I'm starting to think they might outdamage NLs and MAYBE BMs...Can you run the numbers for the three? :X (if that's not too much trouble :[)
Edit: Don't forget advanced homing? Lol.
Might wanna take out that last part too. "Rapid fire will be added once i know the bullets per minute"
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - QSCX - 2008-09-09
Maybe I looked over the calculations too quickly or soemthing, but did you consider that Brandish hits 3 monsters at max level? So it's 260% x 2 x 3.
Oops, nevermind, looks like its just for hitting one monster at a time.
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Technolink - 2008-09-10
max se+ 5 hermits ftw
It can be done with Hp washing....
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Dusk - 2008-09-10
Devil Wrote:Also keep in mind that Captains need a "Bishop / Dark Knight / Captain / X / X / X" party, because of their low HP, resulting is a DPM that is a lot lower then a 6 Viper party, because of only 4 (instead of 6) High DPM attackers...
Vipers need HP washing to survive Horntail without HB (at least before 16xish). A Bishop isn't needed if you're going solely for damage comparisons.
And damn, that NL+SE+Apple damage looks unreasonably high. I'm pretty sure they don't outdamage every other class by that margin.
Edit: Oh wait, that's right, this is still completely max damage. Way too early to conclude anything. You should really just work with average damage, since you're already using average numbers for classes who crit. If you wanted to use max damage for Bowmasters, you'd have to use 340% per arrow, which would mean hitting the highest damage possible and critting 100% of the time. So do average damage, please.
Average numbers:
Two Handed Sword - [(STR * 3.542 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack
One Handed Sword - [(STR * 3.080 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack
Spear - [(STR * 4.3 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack
Thieves
Dagger - [(LUK * 2.772 + STR + DEX) / 100]* Weapon Attack
L7 / TT - [(LUK * 3.75) / 100] * Weapon Attack
Archers
Bow - [(DEX * 3.077 + STR) / 100] * Weapon Attack
Crossbow - [(DEX * 3.258 + STR) / 100] * Weapon Attack
Pirates
Knuckle - [(DEX * 3.696 + STR) / 100] * Weapon Attack
Gun - [(DEX * 2.772 + STR) / 100] * Weapon Attack
That's all you'd have to change, basically. Just change the multipliers to the listed numbers, and the comparisons would suddenly be a lot more fair. NLs (50% min/max ratio) have a 3.75 instead of a 5 multiplier, while Marksmen (81% m/x) only drop from 3.6 to 3.258. It makes a huge difference, believe me.
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - ahoboandahal - 2008-09-10
Why cant paladins use a lunch box? :f6:
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Takebacker - 2008-09-10
ahoboandahal Wrote:Why cant paladins use a lunch box? :f6:
He didn't do it yet. Not like paladins go 1h anyway.
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Russt - 2008-09-10
What's wrong with 1h?
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Devil - 2008-09-10
Russt Wrote:What's wrong with 1h?Brandish 1H -or- 2H = same (LONG) range.
Blast 1H = 1H Range
Blast 2H = 2H Range
Don't ask me why, it's just Nexon...
That's why most Paladins go with the Ribgol 2H Fast Sword...
P.S. I'll add more data another time... had to get to 5000HP on my Blood Shadower first today!
The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread - Kalovale - 2008-09-13
Devil Wrote:Dark Knight
Spear - Crusher (with Berserk) - Fast (5) - 870ms - 69 / min
Since when could an OS do 69 Crushers per minute? o_O
EDIT: I did some research and found out where you got it wrong.
Crusher (3hits) has Fast(5) speed = 990 ms/attack, not 870.
And sorry cause I didn't really read, but is this so-called DPS applied to single mob? I don't see Fury (Berserked) or ACB there at all, and apparently what makes a Pally sexy is not Blast. o-o