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+---- Thread: Bow/Xbow speeds (/showthread.php?tid=3043)
Bow/Xbow speeds - LazyBui - 2008-09-03
Bow
Hurricane
Faster (3): 120ms
Fast (4): 120ms
Fast (5): 120ms
Normal (6): 120ms
Strafe/Arrow Rain/Inferno/Arrow Bomb
Faster (3): 660ms
Fast (4): 720ms
Fast (5): 750ms
Normal (6): 810ms
Crossbow
Pierce
Faster (3): 720ms
Fast (4): 840ms
Fast (5): 870ms
Normal (6): 930ms
Strafe/Arrow Eruption/Blizzard/Iron Arrow
Faster (3): 690ms
Fast (4): 720ms
Fast (5): 780ms
Normal (6): 840ms
Don't need to play with sound. Tick counts are transmitted to the server on use.
Bow/Xbow speeds - Nikkey - 2008-09-03
May I ask where you got those values? They seem to fit my values, and if they're extractable, is there any list containing all the values?
Bow/Xbow speeds - LazyBui - 2008-09-03
They were calculated from the tick counts transmitted to the server when you use skills.
There's probably an indicator in the data somewhere regarding the skill's interaction with weapon speed, because it isn't a uniform increase/decrease even within the same skill, let alone between different skills.
My guess is that they just modify the delay of the skill by however many ms based on weapon speed. Maybe there are different classes of modification too, as some skills are obviously different from the norm.
Bow/Xbow speeds - Kevvl - 2008-09-03
Dusk Wrote:Russt, they gave us more fast bows in the beginning. I guess they forgot to continue the trend, or decided bows had advantages elsewhere to make up for the power loss.
'ey Myst, like I said earlier, before Leafre, Normal speed (6) Bows Fired at 88 SPM, and Normal Speed (6) Xbows fired at 82 SPM.
They changed it for some reason.
Oh, and IA fires at the same rate as every other skill in our arsenal.
Bow/Xbow speeds - Nikkey - 2008-09-03
LazyBui Wrote:They were calculated from the tick counts transmitted to the server when you use skills.
Oh, so they were calculated.
You can still use several skills in a row (at least for warriors) when you're lagging though, so the monster doesn't die in an instant and it takes like, 3-4 hits when it's supposed to be dead. Does this affect the values you just gave out?
Bow/Xbow speeds - LazyBui - 2008-09-03
Devil's Sunrise Wrote:Oh, so they were calculated.Since my lag to 127.0.0.1 is 0ms, no.
You can still use several skills in a row (at least for warriors) when you're lagging though, so the monster doesn't die in an instant and it takes like, 3-4 hits when it's supposed to be dead. Does this affect the values you just gave out?
Bow/Xbow speeds - Sn1perJohnE - 2008-09-03
Dusk Wrote:That sound test is a hell of a lot better than your reaction time. Reaction time + unintentional bias can throw off your results by as much as 3-4 shots.
I hold no bias. As for the reaction time, i have very quick reactions. Also, with a difference of 4 arrows, with no boost, it is not easy to throw out my test, which was done after leafre came out.
Dusk Wrote:Also, Strafe, Double Shot, Normal Arrows, Arrow Blow, Arrow Bomb, Inferno, Blizzard, and possibly Iron Arrow (needs confirming, since I didn't use it much when I was playing a friend's Sniper) all shoot at the same speed.
As i said before, if this test was done with strafe or any skill, it should be noted, as people throw whether or not strafe/other skills have the same fire speed as their counterpart weapon. Also, booster needs to be off for the test, as this affects the speeds.
Devil's Sunrise Wrote:Yeah, human flaws greatly increase the possibility for wrong calculations. By doing this, the only flaws and mistakes in the timing would be human misreadings and computer/connection lag.
for human flaw, refer to other quote response. For the connection, whether on dial up or high speed T3 connections, the animation and lag dont come into play, as if a shot is shown in the animation, there is a a message sent to the server saying that so and so action has been performed, in which a message is sent back to tell that 1 arrow has been used. These messages stack, eliminating the factor of lag.
Bow/Xbow speeds - Technolink - 2008-09-03
LazyBui Wrote:Bow
Strafe/Arrow Rain/Inferno/Arrow Bomb
Fast (4): 720ms
Crossbow
Strafe/Arrow Eruption/Blizzard/Iron Arrow
Fast (4): 720ms
Don't need to play with sound. Tick counts are transmitted to the server on use.
I never knew about the tick counts, but thanks for enlightening us. But as you showed, my sound was correct, they are shooting same speed normal + booster. 83.333 spm. The other ones are interesting, as some people are using fast lvl 64 x/bows now, but still, they will switch to normal ones eventually.
That's so strange though, bows seem to be 30ms less then xbows in all categories except normal+booster. That's so friggin strange.
All of our fast x/bows are Fast(5) right? That leavs bows at 90.9spm and xbows at 86.95spm for fast+booser
@Above, I'm sure you did your test as accurately as possible, but now we have sound analysis and server 'ticks' showing the same speed for Fast(4) which is Normal(6)-Booster(2)
Bow/Xbow speeds - LazyBui - 2008-09-03
Technolink Wrote:That's so strange though, bows seem to be 30ms less then xbows in all categories except normal+booster. That's so friggin strange.It is. What I'm more curious about is how the speeds go from 810 - 750 - 720 - 660, those are differences of 60ms, 30ms, 60ms. I'm wondering if it alternates every other or what, because that strikes me as odd.
Incidentally, most of the speed labels have two integers associated with them.. maybe certain weapon speed increases aren't as worthwhile, hence why boosters aren't -1 weapon speed class.
Thinking about it in that way, it would make sense for it to alternate, because then all boosters are equal at a 90ms boost.
In any case, I think it's safe to conclude that somewhere, something is broken.
Bow/Xbow speeds - Technolink - 2008-09-03
I like the alternation idea, but xbows is 60-60-30. I think it makes sense for it to be 60ms each time, but they didn't want the fast ones to be too fast.
As for bows, that makes 0 sense whatsoever, it needs to be fixed. Otherwise it throws the near-perfect class balance into chaos.
Bow/Xbow speeds - KaidaTan - 2008-09-04
I'm not sure if you answered this question LazyBoi, partially because I'm far from a computer god. But how exactly did you get these "tick counts" and calculate the exact speed that things fire at with them? I think the would be incredibly useful for say.... everything else. (I'm rather interested in Pirates at the moment, so I'd like to know Cannonball and Demolition, for example.)
Bow/Xbow speeds - Russt - 2008-09-04
Presumably has to do with the packets that the client sends when you attack.
I also think it'd be "incredibly useful for everything else".
Bow/Xbow speeds - Sn1perJohnE - 2008-09-04
Russt Wrote:Presumably has to do with the packets that the client sends when you attack.
I also think it'd be "incredibly useful for everything else".
if in packet form, then yes. The times come from the delays between the sending of each piece of data to the server and the response received from the server: Button pressed>>packet sent to server>>response received>>etc.
The packets also stack, so if you happen to have delays between action, the information will stack while there is a delay and correct itself when your connection catches up.
Bow/Xbow speeds - Arbazo - 2008-09-04
LOL tech out of all the people who'd come up with a way of determining this it would BE you. GJ i like the easy to follow graph.
Bow/Xbow speeds - LazyBui - 2008-09-04
Bui, actually.
I'll spend the majority of today producing attack speed numbers. Should be interesting.
Bow/Xbow speeds - Nikkey - 2008-09-04
LazyBui Wrote:It is. What I'm more curious about is how the speeds go from 810 - 750 - 720 - 660, those are differences of 60ms, 30ms, 60ms. I'm wondering if it alternates every other or what, because that strikes me as odd.
Incidentally, most of the speed labels have two integers associated with them.. maybe certain weapon speed increases aren't as worthwhile, hence why boosters aren't -1 weapon speed class.
Thinking about it in that way, it would make sense for it to alternate, because then all boosters are equal at a 90ms boost.
In any case, I think it's safe to conclude that somewhere, something is broken.
the speed increases more when it is from one speed version to another.
E.g. Normal(6) to fast(5) is a bigger step than fast(5) to fast(4).
The thing is, there is no normal(7). That's slow(7), and slow(8), slower(9) (then probably slower(10) and slowest(11))
This only matters for people using slow(7) weapons obviously. Beheader would gain a greater difference than a sunrise or a berserker.
For xbows though, it doesn't seem to make sense.
Bow/Xbow speeds - Dusk - 2008-09-04
LazyBui Wrote:Bow
Hurricane
Faster (3): 120ms
Fast (4): 120ms
Fast (5): 120ms
Normal (6): 120ms
Strafe/Arrow Rain/Inferno/Arrow Bomb
Faster (3): 660ms
Fast (4): 720ms
Fast (5): 750ms
Normal (6): 810ms
Crossbow
Pierce
Faster (3): 720ms
Fast (4): 840ms
Fast (5): 870ms
Normal (6): 930ms
Strafe/Arrow Eruption/Blizzard/Iron Arrow
Faster (3): 690ms
Fast (4): 720ms
Fast (5): 780ms
Normal (6): 840ms
Don't need to play with sound. Tick counts are transmitted to the server on use.
Ah. If those values are correct, that would explain why Sn1perJohnE found bows to be faster without booster. I've never tested without booster. The only value screwed up in this scheme would be Fast (4) for XBows, which should be 750.
Did you round these values at all, or were they the actual output? I had assumed it was based on frames, but in a programming perspective, this makes more sense.
Then again, the ticks shouldn't perfectly match up with what you see. They should be rounded to the frames that are displayed, so you won't always take the same amount of time to attack.
Also, goddamit, I guess Hurricane is really 500/min, not whatever I said.
Bow/Xbow speeds - summer - 2008-09-04
Dusk Wrote:Also, goddamit, I guess Hurricane is really 500/min, not whatever I said.i told you so =)
oh also what's the tick count for Triple Throw and Lucky 7?
Bow/Xbow speeds - Dusk - 2008-09-04
summer Wrote:i told you so =)
oh also what's the tick count for Triple Throw and Lucky 7?
We know those to be 100/min at Fastest (2), so that would be 600ms per attack.
Kevvl Wrote:'ey Myst, like I said earlier, before Leafre, Normal speed (6) Bows Fired at 88 SPM, and Normal Speed (6) Xbows fired at 82 SPM.Thanks for the tip on IA. But no, they did not go through the data and change all the attack speeds in the Leafre patch. I tested it before Leafre. It's always been the same with normal bows with booster, which is the only value 99% of archers are interested in.
They changed it for some reason.
Oh, and IA fires at the same rate as every other skill in our arsenal.
Bow/Xbow speeds - Technolink - 2008-09-04
To get the ms value to shots/minute, just divide 60 by it and times it by 1000 (ms->s)
(60/720)*1000 = 83.333 atks/min.
(60/120)*1000= 500 atks/min (hurricane).
And I like my sound graph, its easy to follow =P