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+--- Thread: The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? (/showthread.php?tid=2861)
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Corn - 2008-08-28
Butterfli, that's usually because statless builds usually have more funds.
Someone made a thread that if a warrior with equal funding to a dexless had the same funds, the regular warrior would actually win.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - DrRusty - 2008-08-28
ClawofBeta Wrote:Butterfli, that's usually because statless builds usually have more funds.
Someone made a thread that if a warrior with equal funding to a dexless had the same funds, the regular warrior would actually win.
How would a regular warrior outdmg a dexless warrior with equal funds? Warriors only need dex for accuracy and use STR for damage. Scroll what you can't scroll strength, for accuracy, and what you can't scroll for either, for dex.
Helm accuracy scrolls, Earring dex, shoe accuracy, zakum helmet, dex bottom, or overall, and in some cases a HT pendant.
More than enough to get the accuracy you need while going dexless with an atk glove and STR cape.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Corn - 2008-08-28
DrRusty Wrote:How would a regular warrior outdmg a dexless warrior with equal funds? Warriors only need dex for accuracy and use STR for damage. Scroll what you can't scroll strength, for accuracy, and what you can't scroll for either, for dex.
Helm accuracy scrolls, Earring dex, shoe accuracy, zakum helmet, dex bottom, or overall, and in some cases a HT pendant.
More than enough to get the accuracy you need while going dexless with an atk glove and STR cape.
Okay, never mind...I found it...but it was on basilmarket.
Shucks.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Kawasari Mimoto - 2008-08-28
Had Nexon limited DEXless-Claws to, let's say Skandas, or lv 70 DEXless Claws, DEXless-Craven/Sleeve/whatever or regular DEX NLs would still have a chance at catching up, if not, be able to dish out more damage-output because of the "1 attack = ? LUK" conversion.
But now, at this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if they would release a lv 11X or 12X DEXless Claw. >_> I hope it never comes out, if anything even tops the new DEXless Claw, I'm just plain-quitting my Night Lord.
-LotNS
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Acim - 2008-08-28
It's obvious Nexon favors dexless sins. And I think they WILL release more ___-less weapons. But even thought sins have the highest DPS (if they have SE and a 100 att pot), they have disadvantages as well. Low HP, very expensive, and quite boring.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Ranylyn - 2008-08-28
Acim Wrote:It's obvious Nexon favors dexless sins. And I think they WILL release more ___-less weapons. But even thought sins have the highest DPS (if they have SE and a 100 att pot), they have disadvantages as well. Low HP, very expensive, and quite boring.
Here's how I see it. Nexon favors money. Encouraging buying resets = money. Nexon doesn't give two shits about the game, I've come to realize, and just that can me earned off it.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Izzah - 2008-08-28
With the arrival of the higher-end maple weapons in GMS, even Low-Dex sins were concerned that a 30-60% scrolled Maple Skanda would tilt the balance further in favor of DEXless.
Even if these Night Raven Claws are so hard to obtain/upgrade, they will eventually trickle into the hands of eager, damage-whoring hermits.
The only way to retain balance is to give Dex claws a more generous amount of WATT.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - DrRusty - 2008-08-29
if you ask me, Nexon is only trying to make dexless equal to low dex builds. Using a high lvl claw with the most weapon attack you can scroll out of it, is still the best build. The strongest NLs in the game are not using skandas, they're using cravens and dragon sleeves. Honestly, some people need to wake the hell up and stop thinking dexless is the shiet because it really isnt. Even that 67 atk 1 slot skanda won't stand up to a craven thats not even equally as well scrolled.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Ranylyn - 2008-08-30
DrRusty Wrote:if you ask me, Nexon is only trying to make dexless equal to low dex builds. Using a high lvl claw with the most weapon attack you can scroll out of it, is still the best build. The strongest NLs in the game are not using skandas, they're using cravens and dragon sleeves. Honestly, some people need to wake the hell up and stop thinking dexless is the shiet because it really isnt. Even that 67 atk 1 slot skanda won't stand up to a craven thats not even equally as well scrolled.
The Level 90 Dexless claw has 5 less attack than the Level 90 Dex claw. How the hell can anyone claim normal/lowdex compares? I HATE, LOATHE, the works, dexless and lukless with a passion, and even I admit that this is what drives the nail into the coffin of the non dexless.
No, I do not care HOW rare it is; I know many people who WILL pay thousands of RL dollars if need be for one, because they care more about damage than life itself.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Stereo - 2008-08-30
As it's forged-only, it has 15 w.atk less than a perfect Sleve, 11 less than a perfect Craven.
15 atk at 15x (for Hermits anyway) translates to about 90-100 stats. In most cases, this is enough to push the balance in favour of the Sleve, just because they have so much "natural" dex - 25 base, 15-35 helm, 10-15 shoes, 22 pendant - none of this has luk equivalent gear, and that's already making up 80-100 stats, which is enough to make the 140-150 dex requirement reasonable, since you're only trading off 40-60 luk for 15 w.atk.
'course that depends on getting a good Sleve/Craven, but it's more possible than a Raven Claw right now.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Blankout - 2008-08-30
Although I own several lukless characters (not because of the damage, but because of the cost), I have to say that this is definitely going too far. At first, the only stat-less weapons were the level 35 and 43 Maple weapons. Now there's the level 64 ones, which isn't too bad, but a level 90 dexless claw and 130 lukless wand/staff? That's not good for the "oldie" characters or to the characters that followed normal stat build guides.
I've also noticed that barely anyone is complaining about str-less archers.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Worthyness - 2008-08-30
this makes me glad that str-less archers are LOLfail =P
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Magus - 2008-08-30
To answer the topic's question: Yes. I do think Nexon/Wizet will continue to make [Stat]less weapons, and most likely they will be gach only as well.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Arroz - 2008-08-31
Kasuhitomi Wrote:Doesn't matter. People already started forging the Balanced Fury. With the amount of DEXless-Hermits/NLs out there, they'll find a way to get them. If anything, within a month from now, or less, you might see a couple clean ones in FM. =/
pics or it didn't happen I haven't even heard of anyone getting a tao of harmony yet so please don't talk out of your ass. The stat-less role has always been one for people who had alot of time money and drive. Notice how those weapons are gach? They are concerned with filling their pockets so even with this around it would not grossly DISBALANCE GAMEPLAY AS IT WOULD DRIVE AWAY CUSTOMERS
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - randompeep - 2008-08-31
Someone found them.
http://www.sleepywood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1485224&highlight=balanced+fury&page=7
Though yes it is SW, so I dunno...
There's a youtube, too. (Though that also doesn't look real, either, in my opinion)
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Kawasari Mimoto - 2008-08-31
Arroz Wrote:pics or it didn't happen I haven't even heard of anyone getting a tao of harmony yet so please don't talk out of your ass. The stat-less role has always been one for people who had alot of time money and drive. Notice how those weapons are gach? They are concerned with filling their pockets so even with this around it would not grossly DISBALANCE GAMEPLAY AS IT WOULD DRIVE AWAY CUSTOMERS
I never talked out of my ass, I got proof. In fact, no need to prove it, randompeep just did, lol... A guy on SW posted that he has the Balanced Fury, other ppl ON SouthPerry posted that they have the Tao pieces, each person individually owning a piece, I mean. So before you accuse ME of pulling stuff out of my ass, I'd appreciate it if you looked into it more, thanks.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - randompeep - 2008-08-31
Oh great... Isaac mentioned in his Masteria thread that there are Devil Rain Throwing Stars in the data. o_O
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - IsaacGS - 2008-08-31
This is a position I've held for a really long time now. Luck-less has completely destroyed the magician class... And we all know the Dexless sin stereotype. For warriors it's not such a big deal, and with archers Strengthless isn't worth the effort, but it's still a danger because those two, even without statless builds, are the most popular.
randompeep Wrote:Oh great... Isaac mentioned in his Masteria thread that there are Devil Rain Throwing Stars in the data. o_Oyes, but they don't have any stats or anything yet, they could be average. For some reason whenever I look at them (no images, but you know what I mean) I always get the feeling they're not better than steelies. No reasoning behind that, it's just how I feel about them.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - RFSurg - 2008-08-31
Putting points into base dex is the easier/cheaper way to advance your character stats. For knowing less about stats and spending less on gear you get lower damage. For putting more work/being more knowledgable about stat builds, you get more damage. Characters with more than 25 base dex, which would be capped at a precise value to equip their claw with dex from equips, and a lot of funding can catch up AND get ahead of their dexless equivalents if they know what they're doing as others have pointed out.
The theif class suffers less from this(if you could call it suffering). Warriors don't really need any base dex at all(again if they know what they're doing and have sufficient funds) and warriors weapons that allow dex warriors to catch up are rare and expensive. If anyone can complain about -less characters it's mages. At the momment, no mage has any reason to put raise their base luk with the 130 lukless wands with more base matk than any other wand/staff luk or not(ignoring the 16x staves which require an unreasonable ammmount of luk/level). Once they're actually implemented correctly it's still much easier and cheaper and cheaper to have 4 base luk and use lukless weapons than using luk equips.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - GummyBear - 2008-10-07
From what I've gathered, level 120 items has builtin bonuses once it levels. Perhaps that could be something that turns the tide. Other than that, the dexless raven claw is extremely rare, and thus it's not practical counting them just yet, and the same goes for balanced furies.