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+---- Thread: Bowmanology (/showthread.php?tid=265)
Bowmanology - Hazzy - 2008-07-01
Kevvl Wrote:They're common enough so that I didn't know they existed until just now.
As for your other question, It has been confirmed that for ranged-non-magic attacks, SE always stacks with regular criticals (+100%+100%+SE%+Damage%). So, it would be a 55% chance of +240% damage. For magic attacks it's a multiplier (1.4*Damage), and I am unsure of how it works for melee hits. 3.8 Multiplier? With L7, SE makes it 390% damage, not 3.8 =P
Are you sure you know how crits work? They don't multiply (Exception being mages) They add. L7+Crit = 250% damage.
Three-hundred eighty versus 390, same difference. D: I don't like Mental Math.
So if you already have Critical, it just adds the rate and damage? Magic Attacks get multiplied by 1.4? Jeeze, that's enough to negate an Elemental Neutrality. :o
Wouldn't it make sense for Melee attacks to just be multipliers? I'll have to go look at some videos. xP
Any who, how would you treat an Archer/Assassin's damage with Sharp Eyes if they didn't have critical? o_0
Bowmanology - Sn1perJohnE - 2008-07-01
Retalion Wrote:I hope you dont mind me giving some points that you could consider adding:
1. In terms of strength, it does make stabalizing your damage better which is why in first job, I often put more points into strength so that I had that non-mastery stability. Additionally, many people use melee weapons up till 18/20 so the extra early strength makes it easier to use a melee weapon.
2. In terms of bows and xbows, with strafe, the firing speed is almost exactly the same (that's what I remember anyways. I remember before 4th job, people were talking of how snipers were so unbelievably better because they got the best of both worlds: Better dmg formula along with the same shooting speed as well as having freeze)
3. Blessing of Amazon doesnt have to be maxed. In fact, most archers dont max it and get focus instead as the avoid is more useful in the longrun than the acc (which is almost never useful, even at those lower levels).
All I could think of as of now as there's not much info yet. Hope this helps.
firing speed i will put that it is open for debate, as there will be debaters on that kind of thing. For Blessing, i will move it into optional, as well as add Focus to the list. As For the melee weapons, it may be true, but im mainly focusing on bows and xbows in general, and not training methods, though, i will consider it if i decide to add a training section, though a new thread may work better.
Bowmanology - Kevvl - 2008-07-01
Hazzy Wrote:Any who, how would you treat an Archer/Assassin's damage with Sharp Eyes if they didn't have critical? o_0
+140%. (postistooshort)
Bowmanology - B0WJOB - 2008-07-01
It's the bowman play style that got me hooked up.
I don't get all statistical and analyze how much dmg AB and DS do,
I just go and pick DS and do my best with upgrading my equips.
If you don't enjoy playing Archers, maybe it's not your call.
There's plenty of classes out there for you to find your play style =]
Bowmanology - Sn1perJohnE - 2008-07-01
B0WJOB Wrote:It's the bowman play style that got me hooked up.
I don't get all statistical and analyze how much dmg AB and DS do,
I just go and pick DS and do my best with upgrading my equips.
If you don't enjoy playing Archers, maybe it's not your call.
There's plenty of classes out there for you to find your play style =]
Very much so, thats why i didnt plan to go into major detail for DS and AB, just a few opinions on em.
Bowmanology - Kevvl - 2008-07-01
With the new skill changes, level 19 AB (Because they screwed up on max AB) is 283% damage. When they fix max AB, it'll be 290% for max. This makes average damage for AB, only 10% less than DS.
Bowmanology - Sn1perJohnE - 2008-07-01
Bow/Xbow firing results added...Ill let you guys read it XD
Bowmanology - Stereo - 2008-07-01
Retalion Wrote:3. Blessing of Amazon doesnt have to be maxed. In fact, most archers dont max it and get focus instead as the avoid is more useful in the longrun than the acc (which is almost never useful, even at those lower levels).
Just a comment, BoA stacks with Bless/Focus, but you can't have Bless & Focus (or acc pills for that matter) so if you want to maximize accuracy, BoA is better first (I believe the typical 2nd job FA-less build ends up with spare points into both skills anyway, something like 11 points which gives you 23 total between the 2).
Bowmanology - Sn1perJohnE - 2008-07-01
Stereo Wrote:Just a comment, BoA stacks with Bless/Focus, but you can't have Bless & Focus (or acc pills for that matter) so if you want to maximize accuracy, BoA is better first (I believe the typical 2nd job FA-less build ends up with spare points into both skills anyway, something like 11 points which gives you 23 total between the 2).
this is where it comes down to personal choice, whether to have a permanent amount of ACC or a temp amount of ACC and Avoid.
Bowmanology - Retalion - 2008-07-01
Stereo Wrote:Just a comment, BoA stacks with Bless/Focus, but you can't have Bless & Focus (or acc pills for that matter) so if you want to maximize accuracy, BoA is better first (I believe the typical 2nd job FA-less build ends up with spare points into both skills anyway, something like 11 points which gives you 23 total between the 2).
I know that bless and focus dont stack and especially with higher level'd training, you'll more often than not be with a priest (or at the very least an hs mule) that will have bless, making focus "somewhat useless". However, Blessing of Amazon is "useless" as well as there is not a monster out there that we cant hit with our ACC as it is. In terms of getting extra ACC, yes Blessing is better. However, what's the point of maximizing ACC when that extra ACC isnt needed?
The way I look at it, its not "What's better? More acc that can stack or avoid" but rather "I have extra points. Where do I dump them?" The 20 avoid from focus is useful but not life changing and especially with the number of HS mules out there for skele/newtie training(they're autoing, hence they dont bless), focus actually somewhat has use there. That's just me though. Im not saying that either is a "must max": Im just saying that blessing isnt a must max, which is something that you're stating in your guide that's not true.
After maxing all the "neccessaries" of 1st job (20 in either AB or DS, 20 in Crit, 8 in Eye, 3 in Blessing to activate eye), you have 9 points left (assuming you went DS and needed the 1 point in AB to unlock DS). After maxing all the 2nd job "necessities" (20 mastery, 30 bomb/IA, 20 PKB) and the other "luxury" skills (20 booster, 20 soul arrow), you have 11 points left.
This means you have 20 points leftover before 3rd job to put into either focus, arrow blow or blessing. If you put them in blessing, then you'll have leftover for focus but if you max focus, then you should have nothing left for blessing.
I would also want to add one more thing for the AB vs DS that you seem to have missed. AB has more of a chance to flinch monsters, often giving people more time before they get overrun by monsters or guaranteeing 100% aggro.
As a person who maxed both AB and DS, I found Arrow blow very useful at gobies to aggro bone fish so I can properly puppet them when I was in my 8x and couldnt take them down fast enough before they'd attack me and cause me to burn potions (This only applies to rangers as snipers can freeze them).
As for xbowman, many of them used to get arrow blow to flinch monsters so they dont have to bow whack as much (as the speed of xbows vs bows IS noticeable with DS/AB compared to the almost innoticeable aspect of that with strafe). With better equips now, it is somewhat irrelevant (as DS arrows now will outdmg AB arrows 2 years ago because of the equipment available now) but its worthy of mention all the same I would say.
Ps. DS = DOUBLE Shot, not dual shot.
Bowmanology - Stereo - 2008-07-01
I did actually have accuracy issues in early 8x with my Sniper, only because I was hunting Newties. Even with max BoA & acc pills I only hit them most of the time (probably 98-99%).
By the time you get to 90, though, bosses are the only monsters with real acc requirements as a bowman, and even there HP is a bigger issue.
I just don't like casting Focus so I'm better off with a passive skill.
Bowmanology - wobbufet - 2008-07-02
B0WJOB Wrote:It's the bowman play style that got me hooked up.
I don't get all statistical and analyze how much dmg AB and DS do,
I just go and pick DS and do my best with upgrading my equips.
If you don't enjoy playing Archers, maybe it's not your call.
There's plenty of classes out there for you to find your play style =]
I really wish I didn't have to get to level 72 to find this out :p
Yes I actually made a ranger to lvl 72 only to delete it afterwards because I didn't like the playing style...
Bowmanology - Trinity - 2008-07-02
nice guide so far, i hope tha bowmen section increase though
Bowmanology - Sn1perJohnE - 2008-07-02
It should increase, im going to try and work on the crossbowman and hunter section to day, but i will have to leave at some point soon.
Bowmanology - Cardboardsnail - 2008-07-02
Stereo Wrote:I did actually have accuracy issues in early 8x with my Sniper, only because I was hunting Newties. Even with max BoA & acc pills I only hit them most of the time (probably 98-99%).
.
Well not everyone hunts newties at 8X lol
Bowmanology - Sn1perJohnE - 2008-07-02
Cardboardsnail Wrote:Well not everyone hunts newties at 8X lol
I was at newties around 84 @-a, and i was getting 100% hits with about 17% an hour, though i have quite a bit of extra dex.
Bowmanology - Sn1perJohnE - 2008-07-23
Update Post: Im looking for Xbowmen to help me with the skills for xbowman, since i dont have one myself. Im asking that they be PMed to me and ill go through all of them, just mark the PM with XBOW. I will either post them as they are, or reword, credit will be given no matter what is done, as long as i use it. Thanks, and I plan to finish the Hunter side at least during tonights SC.
Bowmanology - Dusk - 2008-07-23
Bows and Xbows fire at the same speed. I've tested it, other people have tested it, yet people still claim they are different. They are not. The same people claim that Strafe is faster than Double Shot, when it clearly isn't. Don't let your eyes fool you. Every weapon that says "Normal" on its attack rating will fire/throw/swing/stab at the same speed if you hold down the regular attack button.
Bowmanology - Sn1perJohnE - 2008-07-23
Dusk Wrote:Bows and Xbows fire at the same speed. I've tested it, other people have tested it, yet people still claim they are different. They are not. The same people claim that Strafe is faster than Double Shot, when it clearly isn't. Don't let your eyes fool you. Every weapon that says "Normal" on its attack rating will fire/throw/swing/stab at the same speed if you hold down the regular attack button.
i went and personally took a casa crow and my arund, no booster or SA, and fired arrows for exactly 1 minute. the casa was so much less there is no doubt it could be the same speed, even with error the number was too low to allow it to be equal.
Bowmanology - Retalion - 2008-07-23
Crossbows are definitely slower than bows in terms of firing speed but the firing speed of strafe is basically the same for both classes. I think that's what he was meaning.