Harrisonized Wrote:Beauty to me is the combination of having an idealistic appearance and having the intelligence to think for one's self (originality). However, since the dictionary is giving me:
let's just go with the dictionary definition.

You hit the part on originality, but had she said "I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman", imagine what kind of uproar she would have caused. As you put it, beauty is how well someone conforms to society's ideals. She said the "In my country and family" part to appease the crowd, as evidenced by her saying "But I was raised in a way that you can never compromise your beliefs and your opinions for anything."

That means that she probably didn't state her true beliefs, probably just the one that's conforming to the ideals, hence hitting your definition of beauty.

I do agree that if she can't think on her own, she's not worthy of winning, but what IS an original belief? I'm certain that most of your beliefs (if not all of them) have already been thought up by some other person that you didn't know about.

Devil Wrote:No one discriminates her beliefs, they are just disapproving her opinion over how she wants other people to live their lives.

Quote:Also, she doesn't even answer the question itself. She only states her opinion how she wants to live her own life, while the question was about other people's lives.

Quote:And if her answer want meant as, all people should live according to my beliefs, even if they have an other belief, that means she's an egoistic religiuous fundamentalist, and not suited to be Miss California.

ndynslvr Wrote:Here is the thing: some Christians and other religious think that gay marriage is disgusting and immoral...to them a gay person is just as good as a criminal. To them gay people do it because they want to enjoy the lust (they consider lust and sexual feelings unholy UNLESS it is between a man and a woman). They have a reason to believe that, because alot of gay media involves LUST instead of true love where people make actual sacrifices. Lust to them is unholy and is incriminating. They dont want to have their taxes given to those people. I know this because my parents are anti-gay.

Quote:With that said if your religion does not tolerate gay people and you support that religion then you also have the right to say that you dont like gay people.

Quote:Further more marriage does not necessarily mean love but rather a contract used to gain monetary benefits. These benefits include right choose whether or not a person should be kept on life support, ability to file taxes JOINTLY, ability to raise adopted children. These are all pretty much MONETARY THINGS. If you give any two people ability to marry your giving potentially abilities to make important life decisions. You have to think alot about the rights you are giving to people, and whether or not you want more people to have those rights (not necesarrily because those people love each other). In addition marriage means you can divorce, and ore marriages means more divorces and divorce is where one side gets more money than the other. You are going to give greedy men and women the ability to earn money off marriage. Gay and straight marriage means anyone can marry, and you are gonna give more opportunity for use of legal marriage for ill purposes.

Quote:I do agree that if she can't think on her own, she's not worthy of winning, but what IS an original belief? I'm certain that most of your beliefs (if not all of them) have already been thought up by some other person that you didn't know about.

Retalion Wrote:If you asked me now what I believed, I'd tell you I believe what my parents believe... does that mean that I cant think for myself? No. It's cause Ive thought for myself and realized what my parents believe is true is true for me as well, and thus I choose to believe it. Who's to say she's never examined it for herself? Who's to say that she hasnt gone through something like I did?

RDal Wrote:Has anyone explored the possibility that the other woman was just better?

MasPan Wrote:Impossible, Miss Cali said she feels like she won, but lost the title because of the question. Are you calling her a liar?

Of course we've considered that, but there's no doubt that her statement had an impact one way or the other.

Chompy Wrote:Two thoughts:

One- as a beauty pageant I guess the validity of the question/thought is that a truly "beautiful" person would be open-minded and accepting of others and wish for equality.

Two- as Fiel put out if you are going to give really controversial (well not to me, but to the mainstream I guess) questions then all of the girls should have the same sort of divided issue questions.

RDal Wrote:If the judges took the title because of her stance, then she obviously was not what the judges of the competition were looking for... I don't see the problem.

MasPan Wrote:Original as in you arrive at the thought/belief through your own work and experiences - in other words, that, while others may influence them, there is a deeper meaning to them than "this is what I was taught." Knowledge and facts are things that are rigid, at least to current human understanding, and can be taught. Beliefs and values are something that one has to arrive at on their own for any real meaning to be associated with them. Any "belief" that is passed down by a parent is nothing more than a shallow excuse for a person to not question the way the world works.

Retalion Wrote:Reminds me of people who get married in game just to APQ for apples, lul.

Retalion Wrote:If you asked me now what I believed, I'd tell you I believe what my parents believe... does that mean that I cant think for myself? No. It's cause Ive thought for myself and realized what my parents believe is true is true for me as well, and thus I choose to believe it. Who's to say she's never examined it for herself? Who's to say that she hasnt gone through something like I did?

MasPan Wrote:The difference is, she emphasized the fact that she believes that because it was how she was raised, NOT because she challenged it and found it true for herself. She didn't express that she shared her parents' beliefs, but rather that she was TAUGHT to believe something by her parents.

RDal Wrote:If the judges took the title because of her stance, then she obviously was not what the judges of the competition were looking for... I don't see the problem.

MasPan Wrote:Hell, why not ask them the same thing? It could easily be arranged that they don't hear each other's answer until after the judging, so that wouldn't be an issue.

MasPan Wrote:At above, I didn't say that I had a problem with it either - I think of her as an ugly person, not because of her view, persay, but because didn't arrive at that belief on her own instead of just taking it straight from her parents. To me, at least, the most beautiful thing a person can have is the ability to think for themself. Anyone lacking that is, quite simply, ugly.

Devil Wrote:The real question is: Why should other people be allowed rule over how other people are allowed to live together in their OWN private life?

If the mayority of the population thinks that a marriage is between a WHITE man and woman, is it ok to forbid marriage between a BLACK man and woman?

I'm so incredible sick of how other people's beliefs get projected on society on how other people should behave in their frickin OWN private life! What gives ANYONE the right about HOW other people should or should not live in their frickin OWN house?

How can ANYONE claim, that two people, who love each other, who they don't even KNOW themselves, should not be allowed to marry? How sick are those people?

If those people are homosexual, so what? Does that annoy them so much that they feel the need to forbid them to get married, just for THEIR own beliefs, at the cost of hurting other people's feelings and lives? :S

And yes, I'm Dutch, I'm glad gay marriage is legal here in my country...

RDal Wrote:If the judges took the title because of her stance, then she obviously was not what the judges of the competition were looking for... I don't see the problem.

Chompy Wrote:I think the counter argument is something along the lines of "but they are showing bigotry against bigots!"
Which is epic win.

Harrisonized Wrote:I think she could have elaborated better than "I feel like I'm the winner. I really do", but saying "Bigotry against the bigots" wouldn't be a very good word choice.

Chompy Wrote:But we all like to hate nazis too.
So I really don't see the difference.

Harrisonized Wrote:It's really not difficult to hate a group that tried to exterminate an entire race of people. Nazi's are hated for their actions. Gay's are hated for their beliefs. I don't see how you can compare Nazi's to gays. O_o

Chompy Wrote:I was comparing Bigots to Nazis not Gays to Nazis.
Though I guess there are gay bigots.... or bigotry using gays