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+--- Thread: [1.2.381] The Wind (/showthread.php?tid=42033)
[1.2.381] The Wind - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-05-21
Takebacker Wrote:I don't see how their power doesn't increase as much as other classes when the biggest factor in your damage (potential) is percentage based. Mages have one more potential source compared to a lot of other classes, too...(shields)
Staff and Wand multipliers. While I'm aware this applies to F/P and I/L mages, they have better means of providing overall damage output compared to bishops.
Baklava Wrote:You forgot my quote. :<
...and bishops get spell booster after Jump...
When compared to other classes in-game, Paladins are not nearly as powerful as they are on paper, unless given the perfect scenarios.
I didn't forget your quote. You edited it after I posted my response. And yes, they require those scenarios, but more often than not, they have access to a number of scenarios to choose from. And if memory serves right, this isn't a problem at all in Monster Park outside of a poorly designed zone Nexon made containing monsters of no elemental attributes.
Baklava Wrote:A lot of higher leveled mobs are resistant to a certain element and weak to Poison. wtp Poison, the one element we don't get. >:TYou've edited again. =.=
But either way, I've grown bored discussing this so I'll just say this.
People still main Bishops on KMS, and while yes, people may use them as just replaceable mules, that doesn't mean that a good Bishop can't be a contributing factor to a party past buffs.
That scenario is poor design on Nexon's part, and through no fault of the Paladin class itself.
I never said they aren't a contribution past party buffs. I'm saying the contribution they give is minimal through damage.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Takebacker - 2011-05-21
Balanced by the obvious abundance in m.att compared to w.att. (in GMS, at least)
[1.2.381] The Wind - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-05-21
Takebacker Wrote:Balanced by the obvious abundance in m.att compared to w.att. (in GMS, at least)
I'm almost positive more w.atk is easier to acquire than m.att. :/
Then again, I haven't mained a mage in a while despite the fact I have over six characters in the mage subsets.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Baklava - 2011-05-21
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:I didn't forget your quote. You edited it after I posted my response. And yes, they require those scenarios, but more often than not, they have access to a number of scenarios to choose from. And if memory serves right, this isn't a problem at all in Monster Park outside of a poorly designed zone Nexon made containing monsters of no elemental attributes.
:<
Stupid technicalities.
I'm talking about bosses, for the most part. (And higher leveled regular mobs are commonly weak to Poison and neutral against everything else...poison wt'f the one element we don't get)
Empress Cygnus...
Quote:Level: 190
Elements: Physical strong, Holy strong, Fire strong, Ice strong, Dark strong
Pink Bean...
Quote:Level: 180
Elements: Fire strong, Ice strong, Holy strong
[1.2.381] The Wind - Locked - 2011-05-21
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:I'm almost positive more w.atk is easier to acquire than m.att. :/
Then again, I haven't mained a mage in a while despite the fact I have over six characters in the mage subsets.
Their god damn weapons have 170ish magic attack clean.
[1.2.381] The Wind - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-05-21
Yeah, bad design on Nexon's part. No fault of the Paladin's.
Locked Wrote:Their god damn weapons have 170ish magic attack clean.
Elestaves are easy to acquire, when?
[1.2.381] The Wind - Takebacker - 2011-05-21
Earrings, chaosed shoes, and capes all give way more m.att than what is allowed for w.att. Even gloves can have more m.att (cheaper to boot), and if not you can get a flamekeeper cordon. Int is like the cheapest % stat out there too.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Baklava - 2011-05-21
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:Yeah, bad design on Nexon's part. No fault of the Paladin's.
More Holy Weak bosses/mobs -> super Bishop boost as well.
WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[1.2.381] The Wind - Locked - 2011-05-21
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:Elestaves are easy to acquire, when?
Ok then.
Reverse weapon is about 135 average.
Toss in an advanced Sapphire and you have 138-140ish.
Toss in an Advanced Black Crystal and you could potentially have 140-145 matk.
Add in 3 levels, and you're left with about 143-151 matk.
Even then, none of our weapons reach the high attack clean. Then there are earrings, shoes, capes, and gloves too. Like Takebacker said, %int is cheaper than any other %stat.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Takebacker - 2011-05-21
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:Elestaves are easy to acquire, when?
Kill a toad or two. Boom. Free ele staves.
[1.2.381] The Wind - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-05-21
Baklava Wrote:More Holy Weak bosses/mobs -> super Bishop boost as well.
WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Elemental weak bosses provide for those perfect scenarios you mentioned. However, I should have made it clear that by making all-elemental strong bosses is the part I'm referring to as bad design.
Takebacker Wrote:Earrings, chaosed shoes, and capes all give way more m.att than what is allowed for w.att. Even gloves can have more m.att (cheaper to boot), and if not you can get a flamekeeper cordon. Int is like the cheapest % stat out there too.
I'll give you earrings.
Chaosed Shoes vs w.atk shoes are about equal in difficulty getting decent amounts.
M.Att gloves are more rare. 70% glove m.att scrolls give only 1 matk. 60% glove m.att scrolls are hella expensive.
Flamekeeper vs SCG, both are about equal in difficulty to acquire.
INT% is cheapest, I'll agree there.
However, more w.atk pink scrolls available for 2H weapons out there than m.atk pinks for mage weapons.
Takebacker Wrote:Kill a toad or two. Boom. Free ele staves.
Sure, find a boss that hardly exists.
Locked Wrote:Ok then.
Reverse weapon is about 135 average.
Toss in an advanced Sapphire and you have 138-140ish.
Toss in an Advanced Black Crystal and you could potentially have 140-145 matk.
Add in 3 levels, and you're left with about 143-151 matk.
Even then, none of our weapons reach the high attack clean. Then there are earrings, shoes, capes, and gloves too. Like Takebacker said, %int is cheaper than any other %stat.
I'll give you that. But last I remember, maker's going away and there's sadly no customization in the new crafting system to boost m.atk.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Locked - 2011-05-21
60% matk for staff/wand is incredibly cheap too.
[1.2.381] The Wind - White - 2011-05-21
Takebacker Wrote:Kill a toad or two. Boom. Free ele staves.
I am TRYING! Checked nearly 100 ch's now (1-19 about 5 times) and found ONE toad because of the stupid hackers camping it.
As for how often the staves drop, it's not that high but yeah, kill like 6-8 and you should get one.
[1.2.381] The Wind - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-05-21
60% w.atk for all other weapons are, too.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Takebacker - 2011-05-21
...An average level 90 shoe has 1 m.att. (i think) A level 90 shoe. The only shoe with weapon attack is FS and red stocking, both from events and expensive as F'UCK. Scrolling with w.att otherwise involves scrolls that are A) Also ridiculously expensive and B) No longer increasing dramatically in supply, save duping efforts. Getting high m.att is a simple chaosing venture, which are now cheap as hell. One lucky chaos and you have the m.att equivalent of a shoe that normally costs over 500m in w.att, with 3rd tier potential as well. Neither w.att shoe has that.
The tradeoff for not having m.att on gloves is earrings, but you can get them anyway. It's still another source of m.att, and it's probably still not that expensive anyway. Flamekeepers still drop (they're rare, but they drop) and sell clean for i think half the price of 10 att WGs. The extra 2 is covered by your earrings, and you can use the slots for when you actually run into gloves for m.att. SCGs you either have to forge or buy, and the only SCGs left are scrolled (more likely than not) really really well.
More w.att scrolls, but a hell of a lot more expensive and more in demand.
@ above: m.att scrolls for anything are cheap. Non-pink versions are so cheap everyone just throws them out. I know i do.
[1.2.381] The Wind - RedRaven16 - 2011-05-21
Locked Wrote:60% matk for staff/wand is incredibly cheap too.
I believe that 60% staff scrolls are the 3rd most expensive main handed wep scroll out there
@ takebaker ill buy matk scrolls that are not 100% I could use some
[1.2.381] The Wind - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-05-21
Probably just my own preferences, but I rather go with more "stable" sources of getting w.atk/m.atk on shoes (ie with Shoe Att Scrolls) than using Chaos to luck my way through a plethora of level 90 mage shoes in hopes that the m.atk doesn't get erased and/or undone with subsequent chaos scrolling. But fine, I'll give you that, too.
SCG's are more rare by the day, but I still see plentiful amounts of clean SCG's whenever I visit the FM. Also noticed they've been going down in price due to the increasing popularity of Strong Machine Gloves now, too.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Abysseon - 2011-05-21
Takebacker Wrote:Kill a toad or two. Boom. Free ele staves.
The boss toad doesn't drop the 163 staves. Just the 103 versions.
As for m.att.-int% being more easier/cheaper to obtain than w.att.-other stat%, weapon attack classes are
just more popular and stronger than their magic attack based counterparts. That and the fact of nexon
designing equipments with high magic attack pre-big bang due to it being equivalent to int.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Takebacker - 2011-05-21
@ above: I'm aware, but the entire string of logic isn't terribly relevant because e.weapons aren't the best weapon for bishops. (the class this argument was originally about)
RedRaven16 Wrote:I believe that 60% staff scrolls are the 3rd most expensive main handed wep scroll out there
Only because of battle mages. Bishops still have the option of wands.
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:Probably just my own preferences, but I rather go with more "stable" sources of getting w.atk/m.atk on shoes (ie with Shoe Att Scrolls) than using Chaos to luck my way through a plethora of level 90 mage shoes in hopes that the m.atk doesn't get erased and/or undone with subsequent chaos scrolling. But fine, I'll give you that, too.
SCG's are more rare by the day, but I still see plentiful amounts of clean SCG's whenever I visit the FM. Also noticed they've been going down in price due to the increasing popularity of Strong Machine Gloves now, too.
I agree because you can easily spend money equivalent to w.att shoes trying to get lucky on 3L shoes. A high m.att shoe is still going to sell for a lot less than the equivalent w.att shoe though, regardless of how much you spent to get there.
Seriously? The only SCGs i find are between 15-19 or higher attack. They should be going down in price because potential is what matters though, which coincidentally the SMG happens to have.
[1.2.381] The Wind - TamilTiger1 - 2011-05-21
Abysseon Wrote:Bowmaster showing increased avoid with Illusion Step:
[video=youtube;onLM58KMNyQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onLM58KMNyQ[/video]
There is something else going on here. His illusion step is only level 7 giving him 12% to avoid. You can see in the stat windows that it only adds the % to the avoid you already have. It does not work like the thiefs shadowshifter. Either those mobs have really weak accuracy or there is something else going on. It definetly doesn't have anything to do with illusion step.