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+--- Thread: 4th job Single Target DPS (/showthread.php?tid=6564)
4th job Single Target DPS - Dusk - 2010-05-05
Shidoshi Wrote:EDIT: Just checked. Meteor, blizzard, paralyze, chain lightning, element amplification, elquines and ifrit values need to be updated.
Also, are the equips for mages calculated right? it seems strange that the LUK mage would be stronger than the lukless one considering that the level 130 ewand requires no luk.
You can't just shove them both weapons with the same value for stats (I don't understand why the weapon matk and INT values are so low as well).
One last thing, can you try to make it so that it's compatible with office 2003 as well?
The luk mage is equipping the staff with 70 base luk. The staff has a lot more magic than the wand.
I'll upload 2.02 in old .xls format. Sorry about that.
4th job Single Target DPS - Stereo - 2010-05-05
JoeTang Wrote:Combo Critical stacks up to 10 times; adds +6% Rate, and +10% Damage; has innate 10% Rate and +100% Damage; maximum of 70% Rate and +200% Damage.
Do you happen to know how this works at lower levels?
Fiel's thread lists 3 values
% chance to crit per stack
% damage added per stack
number of stacks
Obviously these are wrong since it goes 10% 10% 6 on max level, but which 10s do these correspond to? Seems to be 3 10s involved in it - base chance to crit (10%), damage added per stack (10%) and number of stacks (10).
Level 1 has ones all around, which means either
- 10% base chance to crit, +1% per stack, 1 stack (max of 11% chance to crit for 101% damage) -> I'm assuming this one for now, as it would mean Fiel's table just has the numbers swapped around, not a missing value.
- 1% base chance to crit, +10% per stack, 1 stack (max of 2% chance to crit for 110% damage)
- 1% base chance to crit, +1% per stack, 10 stacks (max of 11% chance to crit for 110% damage)
- 1% base chance to crit, +1% per stack, 1 stack (max of 2% chance to crit for 101% damage)
It doesn't really matter with 1 point cause none of these are particularly useful, but it does kinda affect how it ramps up.
4th job Single Target DPS - JoeTang - 2010-05-05
Stereo Wrote:Do you happen to know how this works at lower levels?
Fiel's thread lists 3 values
% chance to crit per stack
% damage added per stack
number of stacks
Obviously these are wrong since it goes 10% 10% 6 on max level, but which 10s do these correspond to? Seems to be 3 10s involved in it - base chance to crit (10%), damage added per stack (10%) and number of stacks (10).
Level 1 has ones all around, which means either
- 10% base chance to crit, +1% per stack, 1 stack (max of 11% chance to crit for 101% damage) -> I'm assuming this one for now.
- 1% base chance to crit, +10% per stack, 1 stack (max of 2% chance to crit for 110% damage)
- 1% base chance to crit, +1% per stack, 10 stacks (max of 11% chance to crit for 110% damage)
- 1% base chance to crit, +1% per stack, 1 stack (max of 2% chance to crit for 101% damage)
It doesn't really matter with 1 point cause none of these are particularly useful, but it does kinda affect how it ramps up.
Swap the rate and the stacking around from the table. Damage remains the same.
e.g. Level 10: +3% Probability, +5% Damage, Stacks 5 times Total: 125% Damage 25% Chance @ 50 Combo
4th job Single Target DPS - KaidaTan - 2010-05-05
Okay, here are those fixes plus a small thing or two that Dusk missed.
Excel 2007 (v2.02) OUTDATED
Excel 2003 or lower (v2.02) OUTDATED
Tell me if there are any other issues.
4th job Single Target DPS - MorbidMagus - 2010-05-05
Archmages seem to be where they should be.
Sad though, considering my main is now an Evan, I had a glimmer of hope that they really would outdamage archmages in 1v1 DPS, but oh well. Really surprised that SE and Thorns doesn't even give Evans the lead over their F/P counterparts.
4th job Single Target DPS - KaidaTan - 2010-05-05
MorbidMagus Wrote:Archmages seem to be where they should be.Yeah, they were pretty disappointing. After those adventurer buffs, they're almost exactly the same as I/L mages. Though they can make themselves non-elemental if they want.
Sad though, considering my main is now an Evan, I had a glimmer of hope that they really would outdamage archmages in 1v1 DPS, but oh well. Really surprised that SE and Thorns doesn't even give Evans the lead over their F/P counterparts.
4th job Single Target DPS - foxtales - 2010-05-05
Isn't it a bit odd that Evan and FP practically get the same bonus from SE?
(have passive crit and fury even been accounted for? )
May wanna read over where yur mage crits are being read from
ALSO (sorry! lol) Blaze seems to be able to exceed 199,999 DPS despite being a skill that take over 1s to cast... Not a huge deal, just putting it out there.
4th job Single Target DPS - Chilly - 2010-05-05
Saw foxtales in as the last post and knew his post likely had to do with Evan...
As a whole I avoided this thread as an I/L AM for obvious reasons, but I love math in whatever disappointment-inducing form it come in so I had to check it out. Foxtales is correct in that your Evan calculations are taking critical values from the F/P critical data pool, but Evans are still approximately equal to AM without buffs after adjustment so that's nothing new. Here's hoping for Evan adjustments in the "Balance Patch".
I noticed Dual Blade was added in since the last time I downloaded this ages ago and I've got to say, "Wow." and "Damn." at the same time. I was really hoping to get out of this horrible horrible game but I am unlikely to be able to resist a character in that middle-to-top tier training speed and has top-tiered DPS without excessive buffing.
Very nice job with this, I especially enjoyed your feature of the application of SE and Thorns and all those other critical goodies, I've never been a fan of Aran so their increase was largely a meh (impressive but I don't really care) for me, but watching an SE, Thorned and Critical Ringed Evan is hilarious, must find these buffs for mine, now!
4th job Single Target DPS - KaidaTan - 2010-05-05
foxtales Wrote:Isn't it a bit odd that Evan and FP practically get the same bonus from SE?Oh wow, that's a pretty big error, thanks for catching it. Fixing now...
(have passive crit and fury even been accounted for?
May wanna read over where yur mage crits are being read from
foxtales Wrote:ALSO (sorry! lol) Blaze seems to be able to exceed 199,999 DPS despite being a skill that take over 1s to cast... Not a huge deal, just putting it out there.Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do about that. Limiting the maximum amount of damage a single hit can do is far beyond my mathematic ability. Although I guess I could put a limit on the final cell that assumes you hit 200k each hit, but I think I'd rather show a classes potential than the limits the silly damage cap imposes.
EDIT: Updated
Feel free to offer any other suggestions or tell me about any other errors or inconsistencies.
4th job Single Target DPS - foxtales - 2010-05-05
Someone has to care about the Mage's right!? But yea, kinda hard for me to miss that mistake.
Wasn't too concerned about Blaze, but I'm starting to wonder if illusion and thorns might be able to out damage it because of that pesky damage cap... oh, and I think PI adds 5% damage? I'm not 100% sure and can't really test it now for obvious reasons..
Thanks Kaida, these look a lot closer to the results I've been getting all along.
And regarding Blaze hitting damage cap... is the cap factored in at all before it's plugged into the formula? With such a huge difference in non crit and crit damage, the results may actually end up being really inaccurate.
For example: Blaze with Thorns has a DPS that is pretty much damage cap. It's hitting 100k on non crit , and 199k on crit, but only crits 75% of the time. So in reality the DPS will be closer to 175k, not much ahead of Illusion. And wouldn't the durability weapon for Mages then make Illusion best on monsters weak to it? (zak, PB- assuming Evan's can use these, and those effects work on bosses).
4th job Single Target DPS - KaidaTan - 2010-05-05
foxtales Wrote:Thanks Kaida, these look a lot closer to the results I've been getting all along.The cap isn't factored in at all. Doing so would require mathematic ability far beyond mine. And as I said, I think I'd rather show the potential of the classes rather than what the damage cap imposes. Dusk may disagree, but it's moot anyway since neither of us could possibly figure out how to add it in.
And regarding Blaze hitting damage cap... is the cap factored in at all before it's plugged into the formula? With such a huge difference in non crit and crit damage, the results may actually end up being really inaccurate.
4th job Single Target DPS - foxtales - 2010-05-05
Alright, easy enough... though 300k DPS would be nice. Looks like Thorns is a Mage's best friend, should bring some much needed balance to the table.
And yea this is a great piece of work, thanks for updating it (even big bang :3)
Oh, magic defense seems to be broken.
4th job Single Target DPS - KaidaTan - 2010-05-05
foxtales Wrote:Oh, magic defense seems to be broken.You are right. This one wasn't my fault though. Dusk remade the whole document (and made it look beautiful, I might add) because it was so badly trashed after I had converted it to OpenOffice, then used OpenOffice to convert it to Excel 2003, then used Excel 2007 to convert it to Excel 2007. I had things pretty well organized and colorful, but he really took it over the top. Anyway, since he literally copy-pasted the complicated formulae and wrote out the simple ones, he must have forgotten to put magic defense on the first page, especially since it's only calculated on the first page for magic damage and not physical. Fixing~
EDIT: Fixed again. Here ya go.
Excel 2007 (v2.05)
Excel 2003 and older (v2.05)
4th job Single Target DPS - foxtales - 2010-05-05
Oh. My. God. This changes everything................
A hah, okay not really, but nice to see it works. Thanks again!! And just for my sanity, you did factor Dragon Fury into this, right?
As a side note, Arch Mage's should have better 1v1 damage then Evan when it comes to their corresponding element (with Thorns at least), so they have that to look forward to.
4th job Single Target DPS - KaidaTan - 2010-05-05
foxtales Wrote:A hah, okay not really, but nice to see it works. Thanks again!! And just for my sanity, you did factor Dragon Fury into this, right?That's the thing that gives 10% more damage if your MP is within a... 30% margin? Steve (Lachrymus) made the case to me that that wouldn't be a huge deal because of how much of a peach it'd be to keep it there, so I never really thought much of it. If you use dew you'll run up a bill like no other, and if you use ginsing you'll over-pot. I guess I could add in another... two columns for that? Or maybe I should just delete illusion since it's weaker all the time anyway.
4th job Single Target DPS - foxtales - 2010-05-05
Hmm.. well I don't usually have an issue maintaining it, you just need your MP between 50% and 80%... so on 1/1 its as simple as a Ginger. I usually use sorcerer pots to maintain it while I'm at BF. I suppose it's somewhat situational, much like battleship (except not nearly as important). And yea Illusion is for the most part irrelevent until we get Thorns- the damage cap issue is quite misleading there. I guess all that adding Fury would do is raise the value by 10% for the most part anyway, not like we can't do that ourselves.
*Eep, just out of curiosity, does Aran's Snow Charge or w/e its called carry an ice element?
4th job Single Target DPS - KaidaTan - 2010-05-05
foxtales Wrote:*Eep, just out of curiosity, does Aran's Snow Charge or w/e its called carry an ice element?Yes it does. Fixing...
4th job Single Target DPS - JoeTang - 2010-05-05
For your damage cap issues, could try this:
![[Image: damagecap.gif]](http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3789/damagecap.gif)
Though judging by your formulas, it would require you to rework the way average damage is found.
4th job Single Target DPS - KaidaTan - 2010-05-05
JoeTang Wrote:For your damage cap issues, could try this:I don't think that'd work with crits. And that's the main issue here.
Though judging by your formulas, it would require you to rework the way average damage is found.
4th job Single Target DPS - JoeTang - 2010-05-05
KaidaTan Wrote:I don't think that'd work with crits. And that's the main issue here.
[Normal_Average * (1 - Critical_Rate) + Critical_Average*Critical_Rate]/2?