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+--- Thread: [1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing (/showthread.php?tid=27124)
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Cactuar - 2010-06-30
Dusk Wrote:If a Hero has 200 weapon attack, +20 weapon attack is +10% damage.
If an I/L has 320 magic attack, +20 magic attack is +6.25% damage.
The reason mages have a 0.88 multiplier is to compensate for how high their magic attack naturally is.
Ah. Thank you. That makes sense. They should just drop the multiplier or raise it I think.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - chrisloup - 2010-06-30
~~~~deleted~~~. I see wad you mean~~~
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - ghiblix2 - 2010-06-30
ghostofhalo Wrote:I have to disagree. Giving a class such as the Hero two useable abilities as such would be odd. Heroes already have Panic, Coma, Shout, Brandish and Rush as attacks that can be used at any time. Having two main attacks that are conditional (mob or single-target) would only take up space. Brave Slash could be an advanced version of Brandish or should replace it (after 50 levels of 3rd job). I don't really think it should be an alternate to Brandish.
Agreed.
My gripe again: Why would you further buff a hero's main attack when pali's and especially dark knights have been using the same/same-ish attacks for years. To add insult to injury, they gave a cleric's heal a new animation... prettier heals are cool but it had better not end there -- I do feel like they'll be giving DrK's a new attack (yeah I'm feeling lucky) since they haven't touched crusher yet.
Where is the downside to being a hero these days? You own everything that can possibly be killed solo and if there's a boss such as pb/ht/zak you simply bring a party skill mule along, they have to come anyway otherwise it's just a waste of time. But since party skills are redundant these days, it's always safe to be a pure damage class like a hero. easy as abc.
The 'why'd you make a dk knowing that it's a support job' doesn't fly anymore. I made a DK for the spear. I made a warrior for the hp/attack period. HB has always benefitted other jobs more than they do DrKs thanks to berserk, it's about time that HB stops being the reason for making DrKs less fun to play by strapping on all these restrictions.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - JoeTang - 2010-06-30
Dusk Wrote:What's with Nexon's new obsession with increasing the number of hits that existing skills do? Heroes went from 2-3, Corsairs went from 4-5, Marksmen went from 4-6, Shadowers DOUBLED, Big Bang hits 5 times now...what's the matter? New resolution too big, need something to clutter it with?I think damage over time now is x% of your maximum damage per second. Seemed about right for that Shadower video with 1 Venom. i.e. 42% of your maximum damage per second
Also, I'm interested in what the new DoT numbers mean. I believe the existing formula is 1/(120-x) damage per second, so a 80 DoT skill would do 1/40 HP per second. The new formula uses numbers like 200 and 205, so obviously the formula has changed.
soren5556 Wrote:Well if thats the case brave slash is useless once again in terms of dpm, and with the shortened range even more so.
Brandish: 523.8%/s
Brave Slash: 602.9%/s
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Hazzy - 2010-06-30
Dusk Wrote:If a Hero has 200 weapon attack, +20 weapon attack is +10% damage.
If an I/L has 320 magic attack, +20 magic attack is +6.25% damage.
That's a lot of magic attack.... Sorry Mages, Apples aren't going to help you out that much. 30% damage boost while Night Lords get something like 100%? I can smell the balance already.
Although, if kMS doesn't have Apples.... :| This game has a lot of inconsistencies across versions.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - chrisloup - 2010-06-30
Worthyness Wrote:we could easily max the 10 sp skill that increase our damage passivly by 15% What i'm thinking is: 1 booster, 1 barrage, 1 ds (1 TL too) into DS and the 10 sp skill. which then moves into barrage and booster to 11 (assuming it does the same thing). demo + Strans after.
ds = 30 mastery
bar = 30 mastery
demo = 20 mastery
sxform = 20 mastery
si/booster = 1 point enough for self training, 20 mastery
tl /1 point is good enough for ht. 20 is great (i would love the cd to be 10 min.. )
snatch = 30 mastery
coutner attack = 10 mastery
considering barrage's spammability in 12.320, perhaps demo may not be a priority anymore for bossing? it seems to just give you range for very hard to reach ht left paw and the frequent falling down at right paw/wing .
~~
I would think of 2 builds, standard + snatch build for training then.
standard aims for maxing bossing dmg asap
ds = 30 mastery
bar = 30 mastery
demo = 20 mastery
sxform = 20 mastery
counter attack = 10 mastery
this brings you to lvl 160 before you even add snatch.
the snatch build will perhaps use
ds = 30 mastery
bar = 30 mastery
sxform = 20 mastery
snatch = 30 mastery
~~
which is to say you will add snatch some point after lvl 141...
but then again, 7 points of snatch is all that it needs to stun 3 mobs.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Shidoshi - 2010-06-30
Hazzy Wrote:That's a lot of magic attack.... Sorry Mages, Apples aren't going to help you out that much. 30% damage boost while Night Lords get something like 100%? I can smell the balance already.
Although, if kMS doesn't have Apples.... :| This game has a lot of inconsistencies across versions.
My mage has currently 214matk (234 with medi) so yeah. But still, getting +50% from apple is much better than what we got before, it was almost negligeable.
300matk is kinda shooting too high.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - chrisloup - 2010-06-30
I wrote this earlier regarding the dmg changes for mages, we can see that pure ints will be dead after this since MA is what counts now.
http://forums.asiasoftsea.net/showthread.php?t=816378&page=4
take note this is old e.amp 1.3x and old cl dmg 700%
Quote:my mage current has (with mw20)
magic 1579 (1559+20)
int 1299 (994 + 305)
luk 100 (28+72)
~~
in the new system, my range will therefore be.
magic attack = 1579-1299 = +280 ma
int = 1299
luk = 100
mastery = 50%
so maximum RANGE
=0.88*(4 * 1299 + 100) * (280 / 100)
=0.88*(5196 + 100) * 2.8
= 13049.344 (using tsw)
~~~
I will now reverse out the tsw and put in a +7 60% scrolled avg white tiger staff (luk3 ma 178 req luk 165) total (192 ma luk3 int7) and ap reset accordingly
int = 1191 +7 -67
luk = 98 +3 + 67
magic =1289 + 192
add in mw20 + medi, we get
int 1131 x 1.1 = 1244
luk 168 x 1.1 = 184
magic 1481 +113 + 20 = 1614 (oh my.. I should upgrade to lvl 163 staff anyway..higher magic than my tsw/berg)
~~
in the new system, my range will therefore be.
magic attack = 1614-1244 = +370 ma
int = 1244
luk = 168
mastery = 50%
so maximum RANGE
=0.88*(4 * 1244 + 168) * (370 / 100)
=0.88*(4976 + 168) * 3.7
= 16748.68 (using white dragon staff)
CL dmg (700%) using TSW = 111327~148436
CL dmg using white dragon = 142888~190518
i think the real implication is this.
base = = 16527.456
(gain 10 int)
=0.88*(4 * 1254 + 168) * (370 / 100)
= 16879.104
vs
(gain 10 ma)
=0.88*(4 * 1244 + 168) * (380 / 100)
=17201.536
10 int gain = 351.648 max dmg gain : 1 int = 35.1648 dmg
10 ma gain = 674.08 max dmg gain : 1 ma = 67.408 dmg
so 1 ma is roughly the equivalent of 1.9169 int (this value will change, but at around lvl 19x/200 that will be roughly the value)
but must ap reset 67 points unless they give free ap reset.
~~
in otherwords, pure int builds are screwed.
lvl 163 staff will become the top weapon of choice. + the issue of luk accuracy makes pure int dead
gaining 100 ma from an apple will improve my dmg by 247156-190518 = 56638 gain in dmg.
~
incidentally, my mage will probably have 370 to 400 ma once i reset my luk and scroll my lvl 163 staffs. i certainly forgot to count my bless of fairy buffs (which is now reduced to 20 ma), and yet to count in my +2 all stat + 5wa + 10ma evan glasses (if I want to psok over from viper to mage.. like heck i would)
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Shidoshi - 2010-06-30
Yes, converting to estaffs will probably be the best choice for mages. Those are VERY rare though.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Hazzy - 2010-06-30
Refer to ShiKage's post to see why adding Luk for accuracy is a waste of time. Mages working like the other classes but having a 163 staff is going to wreak some havoc. Looking forward to seeing where this goes.
I don't think there's any reason to add Luk until level 150 or so. Getting Luk + MW + Gear like ©HTP to 163 from a base of 4 would take a while.
That 143k ~ 190k range for CL is a little scary, but I'm unfamiliar with Endgame damage ranges.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - ghostofhalo - 2010-06-30
JoeTang Wrote:Brandish: 523.8%/sThanks for clearing that up. With that kind of increase, I'm not entirely sure why the speed would be slower. Oh well. They have something planned, right?
Brave Slash: 602.9%/s
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Dusk - 2010-06-30
ghostofhalo Wrote:Thanks for clearing that up. With that kind of increase, I'm not entirely sure why the speed would be slower. Oh well. They have something planned, right?
If the speed wasn't slower, Brave Slash would be doing 854%/s (and before you compare that to other classes, that's before Adv Combo and stuff). That's why it's slower.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Manu - 2010-06-30
Lame thing about braveslash is that you'll have useless skill points for the first few levels of 4th job, not sure at what level it outpowers brandish, but it probably takes a while.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Peyhwa - 2010-06-30
Fiel Wrote:ok, consider this...
Assassinate has 3 hits. In 321, it was 610 610 610 plus shadow partner's 40% which is 244%. So, really, 854 854 854 = 2562%
This patch, assassinate's 3 hits are 560 560 560 plus shadow partner's 50% which is 280%. So, really, 840 840 840 = 2520%
You gonna make a big deal out of a whopping 42% damage off of almost 2600% damage?
nope, not going to make a big feal out of it,
juz expressing i personally preferred the shads in ver.321.
tatz all. =)
P.S: i lost track somehow, what is DoT?
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Hazzy - 2010-06-30
I detest slow skills. I would rather have a faster, weaker DPS skill than a slower, higher DPS skill. Well, until you get into extremes. I'd rather do 1000% every 2 seconds than 1% every tenth of a second.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Arroz - 2010-06-30
chrisloup Wrote:I wrote this earlier regarding the dmg changes for mages, we can see that pure ints will be dead after this since MA is what counts now.
http://forums.asiasoftsea.net/showthread.php?t=816378&page=4
take note this is old e.amp 1.3x and old cl dmg 700%
gaining 100 ma from an apple will improve my dmg by 247156-190518 = 56638 gain in dmg.
~
incidentally, my mage will probably have 370 to 400 ma once i reset my luk and scroll my lvl 163 staffs. i certainly forgot to count my bless of fairy buffs (which is now reduced to 20 ma), and yet to count in my +2 all stat + 5wa + 10ma evan glasses (if I want to psok over from viper to mage.. like heck i would)
wonder how dexless warriors will fair
I didn't even notice the hero changes, so what kind of dmg are we doing with all these new skills +30% dmg to darkend monsters +50% on enrage, new combo etc....
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - chrisloup - 2010-06-30
Hazzy Wrote:Refer to ShiKage's post to see why adding Luk for accuracy is a waste of time. Mages working like the other classes but having a 163 staff is going to wreak some havoc. Looking forward to seeing where this goes.
I don't think there's any reason to add Luk until level 150 or so. Getting Luk + MW + Gear like ©HTP to 163 from a base of 4 would take a while.
That 143k ~ 190k range for CL is a little scary, but I'm unfamiliar with Endgame damage ranges.
the 12.322 version of cl will have a damage range of 169573 ~ 226098
both damage ranges still 2 hit KO their respective skelegons.
the 12.322 will have a chance to 1 hit ko skel. (what with teh 15% crit and all that)
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - iamflip - 2010-07-01
I'm probably late to the party, but...
Quote:Cleric:
- Heal now gets a spiffy new animation! Damage is now 280%. Note that damage is completely separate from heal rate which remains at 300. Heal is now holy element.
- Bless now gives +15 WATK/MATK at max level.
- Shining Ray now has an 80% chance to stun for 5 seconds.
- Teleport Mastery changed from passive to active. Here's how I'm THINKING it works --> When you put points into teleport mastery, you replace regular teleport. Then whenever you use teleport, any mobs you teleport through now have a 100% rate of stun. It has a cool new effect too, and I'm looking forward to seeing it in a video.
- Holy Attraction (???) gives +10% more crit rate at all levels.
- Holy Shield now gives +40% State Immunity (like Guardian Spirit for Paladins)
- Genesis damage increased by +100% at all levels. Now has an innate ability to crit at 20% rate.
OMFGYES @ changes to Heal, Bless, and SR. I'm so freaking happy.
Also, I so wanna see Teleport Mastery in action.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - ghostofhalo - 2010-07-01
Hazzy Wrote:I detest slow skills. I would rather have a faster, weaker DPS skill than a slower, higher DPS skill. Well, until you get into extremes. I'd rather do 1000% every 2 seconds than 1% every tenth of a second.I couldn't agree more, though my only concern is not the DPS, but the damage reduction. The less damage you cause, the more overall damage is reduced. Basically, if a monster reduces 2,000 damage, then a faster attack that did 5,000 damage would be far worse than an attack that did 10,000 but was twice as slow. If damage reduction was all percentage base, there wouldn't be an issue. I see why Nexon did it, I just was hoping for a better alternative. I just hope there's no issues with keeping a boss (Bigfoot for example) in knockback with a slower speed.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Hazzy - 2010-07-01
I thought damage reduction was entirely based on skill percentage. o-o