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+--- Thread: [1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing (/showthread.php?tid=27124)
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Rigumaro - 2010-06-30
Btw, I don't know if someone cares about this, but seems like blaze/glace capsules don't work anymore. I didn't have a glace one, and then I found one. My ice shot damage was the same (it still consumes them). It either doesn't add damage, or you do full damage even without them.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Takebacker - 2010-06-30
Rigumaro Wrote:you do full damage even without them.
I'd say that's a win. I always hated those stupid things. Were too rare for their effect.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - kirayamato26 - 2010-06-30
Whoa, am I reading this right? o.O
ACB gives +70% Mastery.
But with the new Mastery system, Paladins have 70% base Mastery.
If you add another 70% to it, it will become 140%.
Mathematically (and programalogically, yes that's a new word that I just made up), there's nothing wrong with it, as long as it is handled by the code to generate 2 numbers between a range of numbers.
But logically, when the minimum exceeds the maximum, it's not right to say the least.
So does it actually add another 70% Mastery? Because that would be the same thing as just multiplying your damage by 1.4, though I'd like that.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Arroz - 2010-06-30
Rigumaro Wrote:Btw, I don't know if someone cares about this, but seems like blaze/glace capsules don't work anymore. I didn't have a glace one, and then I found one. My ice shot damage was the same (it still consumes them). It either doesn't add damage, or you do full damage even without them.
guess it's another bug
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Bribery - 2010-06-30
kirayamato26 Wrote:Whoa, am I reading this right? o.O
ACB gives +70% Mastery.
But with the new Mastery system, Paladins have 70% base Mastery.
If you add another 70% to it, it will become 140%.
Mathematically (and programalogically, yes that's a new word that I just made up), there's nothing wrong with it, as long as it is handled by the code to generate 2 numbers between a range of numbers.
But logically, when the minimum exceeds the maximum, it's not right to say the least.
So does it actually add another 70% Mastery? Because that would be the same thing as just multiplying your damage by 1.4, though I'd like that.
It improves on your old mastery. So Paladins will have 90% mastery, not 140%
Rigumaro Wrote:Btw, I don't know if someone cares about this, but seems like blaze/glace capsules don't work anymore. I didn't have a glace one, and then I found one. My ice shot damage was the same (it still consumes them). It either doesn't add damage, or you do full damage even without them.
Well, there goes my theory of Grenade being a decent skill.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - kirayamato26 - 2010-06-30
Bribery Wrote:It improves on your old mastery. So Paladins will have 90% mastery, not 140%
Well, there goes my theory of Grenade being a decent skill.
Ah, I see.
Thanks for the clarification.
That 600ms delay is still bothering me though, that would mean that a normal 6 weapon can use ACB 100 times in a minute. o.O
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Arroz - 2010-06-30
Bribery Wrote:It improves on your old mastery. So Paladins will have 90% mastery, not 140%
Well, there goes my theory of Grenade being a decent skill.
it can be just a bug
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Worthyness - 2010-06-30
bowmasters have an inferior uber-,astery compared to marksmen now right?
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - vx-2 - 2010-06-30
Worthyness Wrote:bowmasters have an inferior uber-,astery compared to marksmen now right?
-10% difference is uber? :f6:
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - WayOfTime - 2010-06-30
I bet when he said uber, he means that the mastery is still awesome, but not as much as marksmen.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Phoenix - 2010-06-30
ghostofhalo Wrote:Apparently Blave Slash was nerfed in delay again. It's at 1020ms which makes Brandish better once again, so I'm definitely expecting another patch in the near future. It seems lame that they wouldn't upgrade to a 4th job attack. I am highly looking forward to this. 200% damage with Advanced Combo Attack and 50% bonus with Enrage? Isn't that 300% damage? That's not even including the 30% w.defense reduction for their passive skill. I'm really appreciating the things Nexon Korea is accomplishing with these classes, especially the dubbed "lolclasses."
My thoughts exactly, I do hope they make Brave Slash useable. I was afraid when they reduced the delay to such a miniscule amount before hand that this would happen. Ultimately I would like to see Brandish remain as is, and have Brave Slash reduced to 1 Target (2 if they're feeling generous), with a speed equivalent or better than Brandish.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Dusk - 2010-06-30
What's with Nexon's new obsession with increasing the number of hits that existing skills do? Heroes went from 2-3, Corsairs went from 4-5, Marksmen went from 4-6, Shadowers DOUBLED, Big Bang hits 5 times now...what's the matter? New resolution too big, need something to clutter it with?
Also, I'm interested in what the new DoT numbers mean. I believe the existing formula is 1/(120-x) damage per second, so a 80 DoT skill would do 1/40 HP per second. The new formula uses numbers like 200 and 205, so obviously the formula has changed.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - ghostofhalo - 2010-06-30
Phoenix Wrote:My thoughts exactly, I do hope they make Brave Slash useable. I was afraid when they reduced the delay to such a miniscule amount before hand that this would happen. Ultimately I would like to see Brandish remain as is, and have Brave Slash reduced to 1 Target (2 if they're feeling generous), with a speed equivalent or better than Brandish.I have to disagree. Giving a class such as the Hero two useable abilities as such would be odd. Heroes already have Panic, Coma, Shout, Brandish and Rush as attacks that can be used at any time. Having two main attacks that are conditional (mob or single-target) would only take up space. Brave Slash could be an advanced version of Brandish or should replace it (after 50 levels of 3rd job). I don't really think it should be an alternate to Brandish.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Alilatias - 2010-06-30
vx-2 Wrote:If you're talking in terms of training/ Mobbing, there are definitely alternatives.Yeah, I'm mostly talking about making our currently useless/less used skills more useful. And making our useful skills more useful. So now, I have a few ideas on what they could do with said skills.
E.g.
1) SE + concentrate
2) Open Hawk (yea, hawk not phoenix), = 99% stun on mob. Reason for this is becuz, since u dun have minimum range anymore, DP/ PKB/ Dragon Breathe/ Blind/ Hamstring is uttertly useless, just stun them with hawk or arrow bomb, and start hitting with arrow rain, strafe, hurricane and etc.
3) Arrow Rain away: new dmg is 400% @ 10mobs, and use Arrow bomb for distance. I would avoid FA at best to have more mob control.
If you're talking in terms of bossing, there's really just concentrate + SE (like how NL would yelp out loud SE PLS@@) + hurricane/ SOA.
1 - Focus: Make it a party skill. As to not be completely outclassed by the Cleric's Bless, have Focus grant an additional 25% MP Cost reduction. Have the MP cost reduction stack with Concentrate's reduction.
- (Plus, Focus and Concentrate almost kinda means the same thing... To me, anyways.)
2 - Final Attack: Extend its effects so that it not only works on 1st and 2nd job attacking skills, but also all 3rd and 4th job attacking skills (except for Hurricane) as well.
- Warriors appear to have FA working with all of their attack skills (or at least for Paladins and Heroes - this should be extended to Dark Knights if they don't already have it), and as far as I know, there hasn't been any mention of Archers' FA working with their later skills. I don't see why Archers' FA shouldn't.
- (I briefly considered suggesting that Final Attack should have a chance of triggering with each Hurricane arrow, but then I figured that it would end up being the most broken thing in the world. I think I've figured out something better for balance in Hamstring though...)
3 - Power Knockback and Dragon Pulse: Power Knockback is redundant now that there's no minimum range. It sucks now. Get rid of it, and move Dragon Pulse from 4th job to 2nd job.
- At the very least, Dragon Pulse can help us set up monsters for mob attacks.
4 - Soul Arrow: Make it so that Soul Arrow finally takes into consideration ATK from ATK Arrows, so that there would be some reason for having different arrows exist in the first place.
5 - Arrow Rain/Eruption and Blizzard/Inferno: Lower their damage but turn them into multi-hit mob skills. I can't be the only one here that thinks the skill animations looks as if the skills should hit more than once.
- At the very least, they would benefit more from crits.
- Two or three hits is fine, any more would be overkill.
6 - Blind: Make it work on bosses. Instead of lowering their accuracy (I'm assuming Threaten still does that), make it give the enemy's attacks a flat miss rate. 20% sounds good.
- Since this is calculated with enemy attacks and not calculated on the players themselves, it could be possible for enemy area of effect attacks to miss EVERYONE when this kicks in.
7 - Hamstring: Keep the slow rate and amount of speed decreased the same. Make the Slow effect work on bosses. Additionally, while the Hamstring buff is active, you will inflict 5% additional damage to monsters with 75 Speed or less. If the monster has 45 Speed or less, additional damage inflicted is increased to 10%.
- This should work on Immobile enemies too.
- Mages' Slow should be turned into an active skill, and should also have a similar additional damage effect.
8 - Summons: Let them have a (flat rate) chance to crit. This should apply to all summons, not just those of the Archers.
- Cygnus Summons: 40%
- Silver Hawk/Golden Eagle: 40%
- Bahamut: 40%
- Elquines/Ifrit: 50%
- Freezer: 50%
- Phoenix: 55%
9 - Puppet: Make it so that Puppet works like Wild Hunter's Trap skill. This is in terms of how aggro is handled, not in terms of Wild Hunter's Trap inflicting damage.
---
Dusk Wrote:What's with Nexon's new obsession with increasing the number of hits that existing skills do? Heroes went from 2-3, Corsairs went from 4-5, Marksmen went from 4-6, Shadowers DOUBLED, Big Bang hits 5 times now...what's the matter? New resolution too big, need something to clutter it with?Pretty sure it's all because of crits.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Phoenix - 2010-06-30
ghostofhalo Wrote:I have to disagree. Giving a class such as the Hero two useable abilities as such would be odd. Heroes already have Panic, Coma, Shout, Brandish and Rush as attacks that can be used at any time. Having two main attacks that are conditional (mob or single-target) would only take up space. Brave Slash could be an advanced version of Brandish or should replace it (after 50 levels of 3rd job). I don't really think it should be an alternate to Brandish.
Having Brandish already replace Coma and Panic (And I don't think updates remedy that) and with Shout being nothing more than a gimmick, the only two skills I've ever used since 4th job was released were Brandish and Rush. And after a while it's nice to be able to switch between one skill for training (Brandish) and one for Bossing (Slash).
Sure it wouldn't increase your traininng speed as much as a 3 hit BS, but I can live with that, but that's just me.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - kremechoko - 2010-06-30
I feel like Nexon's decision to make Matk and Atk to 1:1 is a bad idea.
Do they realize how much items are already "THIS GIVES 1ATK, AND 2MATK"
Take the Dragon Glasses scrolls for example....or earrings.
|:
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Phoenix - 2010-06-30
kremechoko Wrote:I feel like Nexon's decision to make Matk and Atk to 1:1 is a bad idea.
Do they realize how much items are already "THIS GIVES 1ATK, AND 2MATK"
Take the Dragon Glasses scrolls for example....or earrings.
|:
Well Wands/Staves have the lowest multipler, so it makes up for it.
Also the blessing skill change, did only the vale of Magic change, or does it only offer magic now?
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Dusk - 2010-06-30
kremechoko Wrote:I feel like Nexon's decision to make Matk and Atk to 1:1 is a bad idea.
Do they realize how much items are already "THIS GIVES 1ATK, AND 2MATK"
Take the Dragon Glasses scrolls for example....or earrings.
|:
It's not 1:1. Mages have much higher Magic Attack than other classes have Weapon Attack, so each additional point is worth less. If anything, the Blessing nerf shouldn't have happened.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Cactuar - 2010-06-30
Dusk Wrote:It's not 1:1. Mages have much higher Magic Attack than other classes have Weapon Attack, so each additional point is worth less. If anything, the Blessing nerf shouldn't have happened.
Excusing my ignorance, how exactly does it work out that way? Wouldn't 200 watt be better than 150 watt (150 resulting in a 1.5x multiplier while 200 results in a 2x multiplier)? Why would magic attack be any different?
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Dusk - 2010-06-30
Cactuar Wrote:Excusing my ignorance, how exactly does it work out that way? Wouldn't 200 watt be better than 150 watt (150 resulting in a 1.5x multiplier while 200 results in a 2x multiplier)? Why would magic attack be any different?
If a Hero has 200 weapon attack, +20 weapon attack is +10% damage.
If an I/L has 320 magic attack, +20 magic attack is +6.25% damage.
Assume that both classes would do the same amount of damage before even though their attack values are vastly different. The reason mages have a 0.88 multiplier is to compensate for how high their magic attack naturally is.