Five Second Pose Wrote:What's going to change when you queue as five? Also, don't play ranked if you can't play every position, for the good of everyone involved. You'll end up like me in season one, playing things like SUPPORT SINGED.

Mute Wrote:What happens if you just suck at a role? Like say you can main two roles, and another 2 you're okay with, in that you can hold your own but some help will help swing in your favor, but one role you suck so hard you might as well be playing a can of Purina?

Imagine Wrote:Don't put your ADC's top. Even though you can abuse your range advantage to get a lead, that lead goes away the moment the enemy top laner starts stacking armor, which is the easiest defensive stat to stack ever. Then they can just kill you over and over again, unless your team sends someone to help you, in which case they lose pressure everywhere else. In the end, you become practically useless as the enemy top laner can pretty much ignore you, push top all day, and then kill you whenever it's of convenience to them.

OmegazeroGA Wrote:Answer:No. I prefer the Classic skin over every other one she has.


Probably the only thing to change is I'll have support from them, but I hate the concept of me having my hand held while they go through that process, so I'm really trying to learn supports.

Gymleaders Wrote:Well her Popstar Skin & Dynasty skin r da bestest.

Supports are a hard learn to role, so good luck. It's one of the most impactful roles, so go for it.

chrome Wrote:Me, with top lane.

I play Nasus because it's so incredibly hard to fuck up with Nasus. The idea is to have a few champions with each role that you can default to so you don't end up feeding when you're forced to play your weaker roles (TheOddOne plays Ziggs mid, Janna support, Ashe ADC, Renekton top). You don't have to carry, you just have to not be a liability.

hongyu Wrote:Not really support is more like a laner that doesn't need to cs but really depends on the synergy with the adc, adcs are currently the hardest I would say because you have to constantly reposition and you can't fk up.

Gymleaders Wrote:And on the ADC top thing: I think it's horrible. Vayne especially is a bad top laner IMO. She's incredibly skill-dependent, incredibly squishy, and very easy to focus fire. She's one of the most popular ADCs for top lane (not saying ADCs top are popular, but usually if someone is going ADC top, it's Vayne), so that says a lot about how (not) good ADCs are top.

Mute Wrote:I played a match earlier today, wukong top, and went against a twitch.

Wow. Much hate. Very ow.

Imagine Wrote:The point of stacking armor is not to mitigate harass, but to ensure you can get a point where you can walk up to the ADC and fight them full on. If you buy tabi and warden's mail, and the enemy ADC buys a BT, the enemy ADC spent 3.2k gold for a damage spike, while you spend 2k gold to essentially bring their power level to below when they bought a BT. Which means, you effectively have 1k gold up on the top laner ADC (so the lane will be as though the enemy ADC has no items while you have 760 gold's worth of items). This combined with S4 defensive masteries and lower minion damage + turret damage allows you to walk up to enemy ADC, force a fight, and make them back off since they lose it.

Assuming a caitlyn vs tank with 18 armor, caitlyn with 21/x/x masteries and tank with x/21/x masteries. Both only have starting items, Caitlyn gets +3 AD/level, while the tank gets 3 armor/level. Caityln has 115 AD with masteries and doran's start, tank has 69 armor with masteries (pen + Havoc not factored in yet) and - 8 damage from auto's with doran's shield. With 6% pen factored in, 69 -> 65 armor. Factoring the tank's items + masteries, Caitylyn does (115 - 8 - 2 - 2)*1.03*(100/170) = 62 damage/auto at lv 11. Now let's say she buys a BT, and the tank buys warden's mail + tabi. Caitlyn's AD is now 189, while the tank's armor is now 136, which gets pen'd down to 128. Caitlyn now averages (189 - 8 - 2 - 2)*1.03 *(100/228) * 0.9 * 0.85 = 59 damage per auto attack if we treat warden's slow as a 15% damage reduction. From this, we can see that buying armor does shut down the ADC top's damage by reducing the ADC's damage to a point where she's paying 3.2k gold for an item and you're paying 2.44k gold to make sure that she's paying 3.2k gold for 12% LS, making it so that potions will pretty much mitigate the harass (I see that as magically mitigating harass). Since your items are more efficient and you're 760 gold ahead, there is no point in taking harass when you can use your advantage to force engages.

Gymleaders Wrote:I main ADC. I can assure you it's not the hardest role to learn. The only time I can imagine someone having problems on ADC is lower tiers, where positioning is bad and diving is popular. I'm not saying it's easy, but I honestly don't think it's the hardest.

I also never said support is the hardest, and it's my own opinion. I didn't state it for your to argue, I just stated it to give my thoughts. If you think ADC is harder, that's awesome and dandy, but it's also your opinion. No one really knows which role is hardest, because all roles have their own nuances.

The reason I think support is harder, is because it requires a whole different mindset from other roles, which I love. Counter-engaging, defending your team, CCing the enemies, properly timing your buffs to mitigate as much damage as possible, chaining your CC without stacking it, keeping map vision up, denying map vision, harassing, controlling a lane, freezing a lane, blocking skillshots from your ADC so they take less damage and you can win trades, baiting, canceling dashes with CC, and so much more. There's so much to supports that other roles don't have to actively worry about, and it's such a different playstyle than "get kills, get fed, win". That's why I have shied away from maining ADC, and begun maining support. I love the role.

But you're definitely free to have your own opinion, that's just mine.

And on the ADC top thing: I think it's horrible. Vayne especially is a bad top laner IMO. She's incredibly skill-dependent, incredibly squishy, and very easy to focus fire. She's one of the most popular ADCs for top lane (not saying ADCs top are popular, but usually if someone is going ADC top, it's Vayne), so that says a lot about how (not) good ADCs are top.

hongyu Wrote:How are you going to trade with the adc if you have no burst? As I said adcs don't do well against champions with burst so I'm not talking about high base damage champions like rengar and the other thing I said is adcs with escapes. Let's say your tank goes up to me, first of all how is he going to get up to me? With a gap closer? Then I use my escape. This is especially true for caitlyn with her long range. First of all How are you exactly trading me while dealing massive damage? I have 18% lifesteal with the BT and lifesteal quints, you have pots and 2 tank items, if you are a tank with no burst you likely only do a bit of sustained damage. Enough to maybe do 50% of my hp in one combo and this is if you land your combo with my escape counted in as well. 50% of my hp is very easy to recover with 18% lifesteal while you are using pots to recover still.

Also warden's mail is going to be situational depending on the range of the adc and is it worth to constantly hitting you, if I have a lower range I'm obviously going to hit you a lot less because the range of your spells are likely equivalent to my attack range. The only one who would constantly hit you would be either vayne due to wanting to proc w or cait who has extremely high range.

I didn't say just pick adc into anything, I said you pick the adc if you know who you are up against. If you are a weak melee laner without burst, you are likely going to be constantly zoned out early, if you do get armor eventually the adc would have their lifesteal item, so you essentially ends up making the lane into a farm lane mid game unless you get ganks

The point of adc top is because you know you can zone the enemy laner, you know they can't burst you early, thus you will always get free damage on them unless they get ganks.



My apologies I thought you meant mechanically wise tbh. So forgive me

As for the adc top thing, I am absolutely sure quinn is the most picked adc for top. Not vayne. Quinn's kit is way better for dueling in the top lane due to the nature of her kit with blind and a backward dash + mini stun with slow.

Adc tops are not popular not necessarily because they don't fit in the top lane or what not. It's mainly because you give up a tanky top laner or assassin in exchange for another adc, all this means is that you need a super mega tank in the jungle as well as your support likely has to be someone really tanky like leona. Along with this comes with the fact that all they end up literally doing is zoning the enemy all day. They cannot really help much with low cc jungler ganks(not only adc problem tbh, a lot of laners can't) and they usually cannot go right onto their target due to their squishiness but just constantly having safe poke all day.

The advantage you get from this is obviously more sustained damage, which means if your frontline is decent, you will just shred away in teamfights whether they are tanks or not.

Gymleaders Wrote:That's probably true. I forgot about Quinn. Sometimes I forget she exists.

hongyu Wrote:I think the whole point I'm saying here is that, top lane adc is more of a situational pick depending on both your teamcomp and the enemy's teamcomp. You don't pick it into just everything and you also only really want adc with quick escapes from both ganks and gap closers from bruisers.

Gymleaders Wrote:But you also want a top laner that can scale into late game. Having two ADCs just makes your team that much squishier, especially an ADC like Quinn who is generally squishy AND short ranged.

hongyu Wrote:You don't really need that many tanks, 1-2 is enough assuming your main tank in the jungle can tank well.