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+--- Thread: 9th Anniversary Discussion (/showthread.php?tid=70949)
9th Anniversary Discussion - Thorr - 2014-05-13
Mazz Wrote:though really I'd like them to make Warrior Grounds viable again to be honest..
I never understood what happened that made people abandon it. (WG is such a great place for Kishin, too.) Sure the old 40 level difference thing made HoH way better, but now that it's gone, I would think WG would be in better favor.
9th Anniversary Discussion - Takebacker - 2014-05-13
Thorr Wrote:I never understood what happened that made people abandon it. (WG is such a great place for Kishin, too.) Sure the old 40 level difference thing made HoH way better, but now that it's gone, I would think WG would be in better favor.
Really hard to find a full party. Less exp bonus per person. Lack of safe area (not safe spots, safe area). Harder to get to. Really laggy. More work and money to train in.
I would train there myself, but one or more of those things get in the way. Cannoneers are OP on both HoH and WG, so...
9th Anniversary Discussion - Mazz - 2014-05-13
Thorr Wrote:I never understood what happened that made people abandon it. (WG is such a great place for Kishin, too.) Sure the old 40 level difference thing made HoH way better, but now that it's gone, I would think WG would be in better favor.
I think it's because WG is only 20% party play EXP per person whereas HoH is 50%, and it's pretty much impossible to find people willing to AFK at HoH (or train with you) since everyone would rather just leech/train at HoH because it's easier.
Takebacker mentioned plenty of other things too ._. it's a much better map though imo, it's a lot more entertaining having a big map to train in than a tiny little one with just two small platforms.
9th Anniversary Discussion - Takebacker - 2014-05-13
Mazz Wrote:it's a much better map though imo, it's a lot more entertaining having a big map to train in than a tiny little one with just two small platforms.
I agree with you, but at the same time holding down a macro button and killing both platforms at HoH as a cannoneer faster than a vast majority of other classes (with less difficulty than EVERY class) is pretty entertaining especially when people try to take your map with whole parties of ohkoers and fail hardcore.
9th Anniversary Discussion - Thorr - 2014-05-13
Mazz Wrote:I think it's because WG is only 20% party play EXP per person whereas HoH is 50%, and it's pretty much impossible to find people willing to AFK at HoH (or train with you) since everyone would rather just leech/train at HoH because it's easier.
Takebacker mentioned plenty of other things too ._. it's a much better map though imo, it's a lot more entertaining having a big map to train in than a tiny little one with just two small platforms.
The 20% bonus is definitely a pain. You need 3 leechers just to start getting extra exp. But there are solutions to the safe area problem. WG has a high platform that very few characters can reach, but I can think of 3. 1) Kanna, 2) Mech, 3) Tamer (or anyone with a flying mount) The kanna is an obvious must. MEch can be used to get other people to that platform. You use rocket jump to get up to it and then plant a two way door for everyone else to use. Tamer can fly up there. I havent tested it yet, but I am thinking about having a 190 tamer and a 190 kanna in my party (both would not leech) and then solo training with a main. If your kill rate is high enough, then it could be better than HoH. If it turned out to be a similar rate, I'd go there instead of HoH just because it's more fun.
Speaking of Party Zone bonus, can a KMSer tell me what party zone bonus we get on general maps during You & I? I hope it's higher than 20% (30% is all we need to make it actually worthwhile).
9th Anniversary Discussion - Mazz - 2014-05-13
Takebacker Wrote:I agree with you, but at the same time holding down a macro button and killing both platforms at HoH as a cannoneer faster than a vast majority of other classes (with less difficulty than EVERY class) is pretty entertaining especially when people try to take your map with whole parties of ohkoers and fail hardcore.
Faster, definitely, but I'd rather enjoy the time I spend training as opposed to being bored to death by it. I can't see myself enjoying training at HoH for very long.. I spent hours at WG (granted I was duoing with a friend and that made it a lot more fun too, [MENTION=2861]Patt[/MENTION]; I MISS YOU, but still). I'm feeling pretty done with the whole 'the fastest person wins' aspect of MS these days, I'd rather just chill and enjoy it, even if it does mean levelling up a little slower.
[MENTION=5813]Thorr[/MENTION]; when I trained I had my friends use flying mounts to get to the top of the mountain/platform since it seemed safer than hiding in the corner of the platform on the left, only had a Kanna for a few sessions though, I never got mine above level 170 because I had no equips for it and didn't want to leech it at HoH :| in a month or so when I'm done with exams I'm looking forward to training at WG again though. I'd be interested in finding out the differences in EXP/hour (or EXP/like.. 10 minutes lol) between WG/HoH if you get to that before I do =p
9th Anniversary Discussion - Cactuar - 2014-05-13
Thorr Wrote:The 20% bonus is definitely a pain. You need 3 leechers just to start getting extra exp. But there are solutions to the safe area problem. WG has a high platform that very few characters can reach, but I can think of 3. 1) Kanna, 2) Mech, 3) Tamer (or anyone with a flying mount) The kanna is an obvious must. MEch can be used to get other people to that platform. You use rocket jump to get up to it and then plant a two way door for everyone else to use. Tamer can fly up there. I havent tested it yet, but I am thinking about having a 190 tamer and a 190 kanna in my party (both would not leech) and then solo training with a main. If your kill rate is high enough, then it could be better than HoH. If it turned out to be a similar rate, I'd go there instead of HoH just because it's more fun.
Speaking of Party Zone bonus, can a KMSer tell me what party zone bonus we get on general maps during You & I? I hope it's higher than 20% (30% is all we need to make it actually worthwhile).
Doesn't BT get a door? Couldn't you fly up there with BT and the door people to the top platform as well?
9th Anniversary Discussion - Takebacker - 2014-05-13
Thorr Wrote:The 20% bonus is definitely a pain. You need 3 leechers just to start getting extra exp. But there are solutions to the safe area problem. WG has a high platform that very few characters can reach, but I can think of 3. 1) Kanna, 2) Mech, 3) Tamer (or anyone with a flying mount) The kanna is an obvious must. MEch can be used to get other people to that platform. You use rocket jump to get up to it and then plant a two way door for everyone else to use. Tamer can fly up there. I havent tested it yet, but I am thinking about having a 190 tamer and a 190 kanna in my party (both would not leech) and then solo training with a main. If your kill rate is high enough, then it could be better than HoH. If it turned out to be a similar rate, I'd go there instead of HoH just because it's more fun.
There are easier solutions. Flying mounts used to work, not sure if they still do because the last time i tried it wouldn't work. Mech might not work for two reasons unless you're confirming that the door method actually works. 1) A mech above 190? hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha 2) The distance between the safe spot and the safe area might be too big a distance for door to work. You forgot evan, but that doesn't quite help as much as the other three.
The problem with WG being better than HoH is that it requires party members who are not leeching and have a similar kill rate as you do. This is one of the hardest party requirements to fill in the entire games history because it requires that people have some idea as to how to judge potential training partners by their kill rate and not by their availability, which means they have to do some testing and thinking to get an ideal party set up where everyone has their own spot, gets their own kills, and their total kills are within 100 of each other to be optimal. Plus the party has to be able to last through the levels, because if someone starts getting overleveled and their kill rates become unbalanced then it doesn't work and they need new partners and thus more thinking.
9th Anniversary Discussion - Thorr - 2014-05-13
Cactuar Wrote:Doesn't BT get a door? Couldn't you fly up there with BT and the door people to the top platform as well?Absolutley true =)
I, unfortunately, can no longer test out my setup. My BT and Kanna are now both 205.
And yes, I do have a 200 Mech.
9th Anniversary Discussion - ultimax21 - 2014-05-13
Mazz Wrote:when I trained I had my friends use flying mounts to get to the top of the mountain/platform since it seemed safer than hiding in the corner of the platform on the left, only had a Kanna for a few sessions though, I never got mine above level 170 because I had no equips for it and didn't want to leech it at HoH :| in a month or so when I'm done with exams I'm looking forward to training at WG again though. I'd be interested in finding out the differences in EXP/hour (or EXP/like.. 10 minutes lol) between WG/HoH if you get to that before I do =p
Assuming you can 1hko both mobs, HoH wins on 1x simply because you don't have to move much. Especially more so for classes with long or huge range. However, when 2x appears, WG actually fairs a lot better. Duoing is also quite fast assuming you don't have anyone leeching each other and split the map (I think very close to exp rate of HoH on 1x too). But you'd need a lvl 231+ guy to help you do that lol. If you don't have that 231+ guy, its probably like 30% slower on 1x depending on if you solo or duo.
9th Anniversary Discussion - Thorr - 2014-05-13
ultimax21 Wrote:Assuming you can 1hko both mobs, HoH wins on 1x simply because you don't have to move much. Especially more so for classes with long or huge range. However, when 2x appears, WG actually fairs a lot better. Duoing is also quite fast assuming you don't have anyone leeching each other and split the map (I think very close to exp rate of HoH on 1x too). But you'd need a lvl 231+ guy to help you do that lol. If you don't have that 231+ guy, its probably like 30% slower on 1x.
If you are using a 231+ guy to remove the party exp, then you can do the same thing by not partying in the first place. The 40 level difference doesn't give you the party bonus anymore.
9th Anniversary Discussion - Takebacker - 2014-05-13
Thorr Wrote:And yes, I do have a 200 Mech.
That's totally besides the point. Yes, you have a 200 mech. Does khaini? Does any server for that matter have a 190+ mech available at any time, down to train, and at WG? Sure you can make one yourself, but do you know what a pointless waste of time that is? They're the most abandoned class in the game (hell even jett is gaining some momentum because of their revamp) and revamps don't change that...
9th Anniversary Discussion - Thorr - 2014-05-13
Takebacker Wrote:That's totally besides the point. Yes, you have a 200 mech. Does khaini? Does any server for that matter have a 190+ mech available at any time, down to train, and at WG? Sure you can make one yourself, but do you know what a pointless waste of time that is? They're the most abandoned class in the game (hell even jett is gaining some momentum because of their revamp) and revamps don't change that...
I was merely pointing it out so you could laugh at it, sir.
9th Anniversary Discussion - Takebacker - 2014-05-13
Thorr Wrote:I was merely pointing it out so you could laugh at it, sir.
Why would i laugh at you having one? I was laughing at the idea of mechs being common enough to just grab one and get to the top of WG when i haven't seen one of any level in at least a year.
9th Anniversary Discussion - Thorr - 2014-05-13
Takebacker Wrote:Why would i laugh at you having one? I was laughing at the idea of mechs being common enough to just grab one and get to the top of WG when i haven't seen one of any level in at least a year.
I took your HAHAHAHA to mean it was joke to have one, so I was lending to your perceived point.
9th Anniversary Discussion - Takebacker - 2014-05-13
Thorr Wrote:I took your HAHAHAHA to mean it was joke to have one, so I was lending to your perceived point.
Finding a mech (main) is harder than finding a saturn chair, everyone knows that.
9th Anniversary Discussion - ultimax21 - 2014-05-13
Thorr Wrote:If you are using a 231+ guy to remove the party exp, then you can do the same thing by not partying in the first place. The 40 level difference doesn't give you the party bonus anymore.
The point of that lvl 231 guy is to remove leeching even when duoing while holding the party together. I don't know about you, but having to move in and out 2 people per buffing session slows you down. However, another warning is that HS for bishop plain doesn't work with 41+ lvl difference thus phantom wins here.
9th Anniversary Discussion - OrionTempest - 2014-05-13
Seriously, 12 game losing streak on Monsteropoly. Screw you too, RNG gods.
9th Anniversary Discussion - Liable - 2014-05-13
Thorr Wrote:I never understood what happened that made people abandon it. (WG is such a great place for Kishin, too.) Sure the old 40 level difference thing made HoH way better, but now that it's gone, I would think WG would be in better favor.
I think there's 2 main (mechanical) reasons why we abandoned that map, other than its original map characteristic that it began with.
1. The EXP reduction (despite the HP being lowered to accustom this, it's still a nerf for those who're funded) to the mobs that occured in this patch; and
2. The spawn tick being increased to make HoH a lot efficient with kishin (since you don't need to move as much).
9th Anniversary Discussion - ultimax21 - 2014-05-14
Liable Wrote:I think there's 2 main (mechanical) reasons why we abandoned that map, other than its original map characteristic that it began with.
But when you have a 2x card or 2x event, it only multiplies your white exp and not the party bonus exp therefore lacking so much in actual benefit. Trade offs to both sides, people just lazy to move and kill because its efficient.