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+--- Thread: [1.2.381] The Wind (/showthread.php?tid=42033)
[1.2.381] The Wind - Alloy - 2011-05-20
MetaSeraphim Wrote:You however don't seem to realize where I am coming from. For 8 years classes have had their speed cap be 140 with nothing to go above it but mounts, now that suddenly a class can go above that cap without a mount I don't think it is going to be a big huge difference. When it came to WH's it was big because they could run and gun, regular archers still can't run and gun on that level. If you happen to kill all the spawn in your area you'll be able to get to the next monster somewhat faster, but beyond that this isn't a game changing thing.
It's not going to make Archers OMGWTFSUPERDUPERPOWERFUL.
Flash jump carries over the momentum from your speed.
It does matter, even if you don't notice it yourself.
And never I said it was making them super powerful. It is significant to DPS, yes, but it still feels natural, up to some point... But that point needs to be compared to the fastest a class can go. And yes, thieves are the fast guys, yet bowmen are almost at their level, better in terms of vertical movement, actually. I'm mainly just venting about us thieves being below that for now, even if there's most likely changes incoming.
[1.2.381] The Wind - JoeTang - 2011-05-20
Alloy Wrote:Flash jump carries over the momentum from your speed.
I can say with 95% confidence that it doesn't, but I don't think I have any speed only gear and I'm in my shop so I can't test it right now.
I know for a fact that you Flash Jump faster with 100/100 than 140/123 though.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Luxeraph - 2011-05-20
From this update the only skill I'm not that happy with is double jump, sure its useful but where have you seen an archer doing a higher jump than the rest, the new over the cap speed does go with archers since they have always had the need to overrun stuff so they don't get hit, I would say IMO that thief should get something like 140 jump from a skill, since thats what they do jump over the mobs to not be hit while attacking and that being the reason why they can jump throw while bowmen can't.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Hana - 2011-05-20
Worthyness Wrote:Should probably not include summons in calculations due to the fact that during most boss runs, archers won't be allowed to have their summons out, thereby reducing their full bossing capabilities. Granted they'll do it during solo bossing and training, but really, if ever they get to do a squad run, most likely people will be like : OMGI guess we need to tell the WHs to dismount their jags =( during bossingY U SUMMON 4????? U MAEK ME LAGGGGGG! STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!1111!" >.>
As far as movement speed, I think its fine for bowman to get a speed boost and the double jump, which is pretty similar to the jag jump. Our FJ goes further and it's the skill to help us get around anyways. I have no complaints on their speed boost, but the only thing I want to QQ on is their ridiculous DPS.
[1.2.381] The Wind - White - 2011-05-20
JoeTang Wrote:I can say with 95% confidence that it doesn't, but I don't think I have any speed only gear and I'm in my shop so I can't test it right now.
I know for a fact that you Flash Jump faster with 100/100 than 140/123 though.
Are you saying the can fj more often and thus travel faster at 100/100 than 140/123 or that they travel a further distance per fj at 100/100 than 140/123?
[1.2.381] The Wind - JoeTang - 2011-05-20
White Wrote:Are you saying the can fj more often and thus travel faster at 100/100 than 140/123 or that they travel a further distance per fj at 100/100 than 140/123?
You travel faster at 100/100 than 140/123, which means you land sooner and thus can attack sooner/Flash Jump again after a Flash Jump. Night Lords probably find it more advantageous to have the Jump, but I never found it terribly useful on a Shadower, and it's only useful on a Dual Blade because they need it to use Flying Assaulter.
[1.2.381] The Wind - White - 2011-05-20
JoeTang Wrote:You travel faster at 100/100 than 140/123, which means you land sooner and thus can attack sooner/Flash Jump again after a Flash Jump. Night Lords probably find it more advantageous to have the Jump, but I never found it terribly useful on a Shadower, and it's only useful on a Dual Blade because they need it to use Flying Assaulter.
Yeah, I was assuming that's what you meant. I thought it was clear. However, back when there was min range, being able to jump higher than the heads of mobs to throw stars was invaluable.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Kojo - 2011-05-20
IllegallySane Wrote:Wild Mass Guessing Time!
Thieves: Shadow Dance, or Vendetta
Pirates: Great Age of Piracy
They should call the update Ninjas vs Pirates.
[1.2.381] The Wind - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-05-20
JoeTang Wrote:You travel faster at 100/100 than 140/123, which means you land sooner and thus can attack sooner/Flash Jump again after a Flash Jump. Night Lords probably find it more advantageous to have the Jump, but I never found it terribly useful on a Shadower, and it's only useful on a Dual Blade because they need it to use Flying Assaulter.
Is that true? I just tested it on fraps and did a frame by frame in the El Nath FM's (FM19 to be exact). Starting the from up arrow, I timed myself until I would hit the right wall. Here are the results:
140/123 Rising FJ: 2.50 seconds
100/100 Rising FJ: 2.55 seconds
140/123 Flash Skip: 2.74 seconds
I can upload a video, too, if you'd like.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Alloy - 2011-05-20
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:Is that true? I just tested it on fraps and did a frame by frame in the El Nath FM's (FM19 to be exact). Starting the from up arrow, I timed myself until I would hit the right wall. Here are the results:
140/123 Rising FJ: 2.50 seconds
100/100 Rising FJ: 2.55 seconds
140/123 Flash Skip: 2.74 seconds
I upload a video, too, if you'd like.
I guess the jump is what matters the most then. All I know is that there's a restriction between a flash jump and the next attack you use. If you do it too fast, you end up just jumping and not flashing.
Either way, it's 100% sure that the more you jump, the more you stay in the air, and therefore, best way to keep the speed.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Locked - 2011-05-20
You can attack right after Flash Jump. I do it with my Shadower all the time with boomerang Step. Good way to keep up the FJ + iframes.
[1.2.381] The Wind - JoeTang - 2011-05-20
Locked Wrote:You can attack right after Flash Jump. I do it with my Shadower all the time with boomerang Step. Good way to keep up the FJ + iframes.
There's a small delay, I swear.
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:Is that true? I just tested it on fraps and did a frame by frame in the El Nath FM's (FM19 to be exact). Starting the from up arrow, I timed myself until I would hit the right wall. Here are the results:
140/123 Rising FJ: 2.50 seconds
100/100 Rising FJ: 2.55 seconds
140/123 Flash Skip: 2.74 seconds
I can upload a video, too, if you'd like.
I already did the tests, and there's a way to be ~1.2x? faster using 100/100 than 140/120. Could you define Flash Skip and Rising Flash Jump? If Flash Skip is what I think it is, 100/100 should be faster than all the others.
http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=29314
[1.2.381] The Wind - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-05-20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNLU8S1WgqQ
That'd probably define it. Rising Flash Jump is when the flash jump occurs upon pixel leaving the ground as opposed to the flash jump occuring at the peak of the jump. Flash Skip is performing a flash jump with down+jump drop.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Takebacker - 2011-05-20
Numbers aside there doesn't seem to be any real reason to use flash skip in the first place.
[1.2.381] The Wind - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-05-20
Takebacker Wrote:Numbers aside there doesn't seem to be any real reason to use flash skip in the first place.
I used it back before BigBang to clear small gaps (like that small gap at the middle platform in Skele mini-dungeon) where if I propelled too far, it'd launch me into a Skele. It's used for positioning mostly. The other thing it's used for is at certain spots in ToT, you can propel yourself downward under a platform and under enemies without needing to jump over those enemies and then down+jump.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Punch - 2011-05-20
Can we Jump Attack now? Or nawhh?
I'm guessing no but I'm just curious as to how it'll work with Double Jump.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Baklava - 2011-05-20
octopusprime Wrote:Bosses hit the whole screen, it's still pointless.
Someone didn't tell him about the Lv160~170 regular mobs that deal 6k+ damage to things that aren't Warriors...
[1.2.381] The Wind - Dudewitbow - 2011-05-20
Punch Wrote:Can we Jump Attack now? Or nawhh?
I'm guessing no but I'm just curious as to how it'll work with Double Jump.
i would guess you would have to land before you can attack. Might as well put one downside to the gained mobility.
@above: If my WH was level 160, i would be afraid to walk into Future Ereve/Henesys. they'd probably 2 hit me
[1.2.381] The Wind - JoeTang - 2011-05-20
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNLU8S1WgqQ
That'd probably define it. Rising Flash Jump is when the flash jump occurs upon pixel leaving the ground as opposed to the flash jump occuring at the peak of the jump. Flash Skip is performing a flash jump with down+jump drop.
Yeah, Rising Flash Jump or whatever you want to call it should be faster 100/100 than 140/123. It's faster the less jump you have.
[1.2.381] The Wind - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-05-20
Mm, the times say otherwise though, but it's near negligible with a 0.05 second difference.