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+--- Thread: [1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing (/showthread.php?tid=27124)
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Cavalier - 2010-06-30
byakugan Wrote:Before = they were decreassing the cooldown time on snipe from 6 to 4 seconds, they were reducing the charging time of piercing to 1.5 seconds (or just 1), they increased the damage cap from 100k to 200k so snipe could hit twice its dmg, They increased strafe's and blizzard's dmg a little and even earlier skills like Iron Arrow.
Now = they are giving them a new skill that rivals or surpasses hurricane while at the same time they double the damage of pierce, they are making Snipe hit 5 times harder than before and i forgot what other changes.
By acceptable I didn't mean the argument was right, just tolerable. But now they are making marksmen strong enough to kick bowmen out of maple. So saying Bowmaster deserve it just because marksmen were always the underdog is just ridiculous.
I never understood the argument as that BMs deserved it because MMs were always underpowered. I just thought it meant that before, back a few years ago, Snipers were stronger than Rangers, but there were a lot more Rangers than Snipers, showing that some people pick classes for looks over power. I mean, isn't that why there were more bowmasters than marksmen? (I suppose that there was a bit of a BM bandwagon a while back, so that contributed more)
In any case, I'm not really sure what the original argument was. :S
I'd prefer BMs and MMs to be almost exactly equal, if that's possible, so that MMs don't feel shafted, and the same for BMs, and that everyone who got on the BM bandwagon doesn't start complaining (not that I don't care about them, but they were always the stronger of the two)
But if class popularity doesn't matter, like somebody said somewhere up there, then it doesn't really matter if MMs suddenly become stronger than BMs or not.
FluffyFoxxie Wrote:It fires the same speed as regular strafe. What people mean by iy being "faster" is that it fires 6 arrows in the same time it takes to fire one strafe, as opposed to hurricane which fires I think slightly less arrows in that same amount of time. MM will not be able to KB bosses any more efficiently than before, aside from simply being able to deal more raw damage.
They kind of will be able to KB bosses better than before, because they'll be doing more damage per arrow, which will put them over the KB threshold more of the time. Of course, if the boss has a low KB, it won't matter and it'll depend on whether a monster can be kb'd multiple times from one attack.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - FrozNlite - 2010-06-30
Holy crap @ Aran updates...me likey.
And is this a correct calculation for max solo crit rates on Aran now?
20% passive base from Combo Crit
40% additional from Combo Crit at 100+ combos (4%/10 combos)
20% passive from High Mastery
+5% passive Beginner skill
= 85% crit rate on Arans with max Combo Crit and High Mastery at 100+ combos? And this is bumped to 95% using the Critical Ring?
If that's true then hot damn who needs SE?
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Baklava - 2010-06-30
Hurricane does 200% damage x8/1sec.
I don't understand how that's weak still. o_o
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Bribery - 2010-06-30
FrozNlite Wrote:Holy crap @ Aran updates...me likey.
And is this a correct calculation for max solo crit rates on Aran now?
20% passive base from Combo Crit
40% additional from Combo Crit at 100+ combos (4%/10 combos)
20% passive from High Mastery
+5% passive Beginner skill
= 85% crit rate on Arans with max Combo Crit and High Mastery at 100+ combos? And this is bumped to 95% using the Critical Ring?
If that's true then hot damn who needs SE?
High Mastery adds to critical damage, not rate. Still, 65% innate critical is nothing to scoff at xD.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - FluffyFoxxie - 2010-06-30
Baklava Wrote:Hurricane does 200% damage x8/1sec.
I don't understand how that's weak still. o_o
Compared to 190% x6 arrows per marksman attack (who also have the advantage of a higher multiplier) and a garunteed 1m damage every 5 seconds, that's what people are complaining about.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - vx-2 - 2010-06-30
FluffyFoxxie Wrote:It fires the same speed as regular strafe. What people mean by iy being "faster" is that it fires 6 arrows in the same time it takes to fire one strafe, as opposed to hurricane which fires I think slightly less arrows in that same amount of time. MM will not be able to KB bosses any more efficiently than before, aside from simply being able to deal more raw damage.
That's not correct. If my memory is correct.
And If things didn't change, SOA/ hurriance deals 500 arrows/ min = 8 arrows/ sec. (not effected by Bow booster nor Speed infusion from viper)
meanwhile, NLs can do up to around 530 - 560 stars/ min (with booster and Speed infusion)
FluffyFoxxie Wrote:Compared to 190% x6 arrows per marksman attack (who also have the advantage of a higher multiplier) and a garunteed 1m damage every 5 seconds, that's what people are complaining about.
well put it, but IMHO, they are quite closed, either that or xbow wins but not by much, (at least not what I think)
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Baklava - 2010-06-30
FluffyFoxxie Wrote:Compared to 190% x6 arrows per marksman attack (who also have the advantage of a higher multiplier) and a garunteed 1m damage every 5 seconds, that's what people are complaining about.
Super strafe is 170% and pierce is overkill for regular training.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - vx-2 - 2010-06-30
Baklava Wrote:Super strafe is 170% and pierce is overkill for regular training.
On top of it, I just notice xbow Expert (Mastery) 30 for MM are 70% vs. bow expert (Mastery) 30 for BMs are 60% only
but on the side argument BM gets a much stronger concentrate at max level +35WA.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - FrozNlite - 2010-06-30
Bribery Wrote:High Mastery adds to critical damage, not rate. Still, 65% innate critical is nothing to scoff at xD.
Ahh...that's still hella sweet though. Glad I'm continuing the class
.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Cyanne - 2010-06-30
FluffyFoxxie Wrote:Compared to 190% x6 arrows per marksman attack (who also have the advantage of a higher multiplier) and a garunteed 1m damage every 5 seconds, that's what people are complaining about.
It takes the exact same amount of time to fire strafe as it does to fire 6 hurricane arrows, thus making advanced strafe the same speed as hurricane in terms of number of arrows output.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - shagreen heart - 2010-06-30
it seems to be a sticky situation:
if you increase fire demon's DoT, your poison skills are useless. (wait, do poison and fire DoT stack...? if they don't stack, stacking would be a very good thing)
if you ahve a passive chance to poison monsters, your active poison skills are useless
efreet and elquines were switched correct? it may not stay that way, but these guys should get a big damage/dps/speed buff if they are staying that way, or have an individual burn DoT effect that stacks with your other burn DoT effects
poison mist could get some sort of mastery in 4th job, a 1-10 sp skill, that greatly increases the duration it hangs in the map, to save a lot of time and recasting, and increase in poison damage
efreet could have an individual burn effect called inferno or lava or something, which looks a little different (maybe like how his body looks), that is basically the same thing as burn, but just another effect to increase DoT by stacking. maybe it also lowers m.def?
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - FluffyFoxxie - 2010-06-30
Cyanne Wrote:It takes the exact same amount of time to fire strafe as it does to fire 6 hurricane arrows, thus making advanced strafe the same speed as hurricane in terms of number of arrows output.
Ah okay, thanks for clarifying. It would seem that hurricane has a miniscule advantage over ultistrafe, but when you bring snipe into the equation BMs simply can't compete. I sniff BM upgrades comming our way.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Bribery - 2010-06-30
Hmm, would lolGrenade be worth maxing for Gunslingers now (over Invisible Shot)? With it being fire element, I would assume that Blaze Capsule will double its damage. Plus it does DoT damage now too.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Cavalier - 2010-06-30
FluffyFoxxie Wrote:Ah okay, thanks for clarifying. It would seem that hurricane has a miniscule advantage over ultistrafe, but when you bring snipe into the equation BMs simply can't compete. I sniff BM upgrades comming our way.
I'm pretty sure they balance classes with all the other classes, and not just within branches of the same main class.
Not to mention 200% Hurricane was thought to be pretty insane (or I thought so) at first.
In other words, I think it's more likely MMs will get a slight nerf.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Pinkachoo - 2010-06-30
FluffyFoxxie Wrote:Ah okay, thanks for clarifying. It would seem that hurricane has a miniscule advantage over ultistrafe, but when you bring snipe into the equation BMs simply can't compete. I sniff BM upgrades comming our way.
Or Ultistrafe downgrades.
Remember that they just released ultimate strafe, and the balancing doesn't seem to be over.
They'll probably mess around with ultistrafe at least 2-3 times anyways.
...hopefully they don't though
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - vx-2 - 2010-06-30
FluffyFoxxie Wrote:Ah okay, thanks for clarifying. It would seem that hurricane has a miniscule advantage over ultistrafe, but when you bring snipe into the equation BMs simply can't compete. I sniff BM upgrades comming our way.
Don't ignore the concentrate skills that BMs get while MM don't. +35WA makes a whole lot of difference in dmg/sec
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - jhkplaya888 - 2010-06-30
Can anyone confirm that the DBs ultimate has no cool down? New leecher ftw?
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - cronnoponno - 2010-06-30
Oh my this is quite the change...I might actually be interested in making a paladin now.
But...some changes look rather...eh..
It's hard to tell if I like the updates overall, or hate them. I mean advanced charged blows mob count is reduced which is always a bad thing, nerfed damage, and was given a delay?(not that it matters TOO much I suppose since I think you'll eventually be rushing after every initial hit with it).
I guess these updates are acceptable, I also came when I saw that blizzard does DOT.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Cancambo - 2010-06-30
Fiel Wrote:- Critical Combo: Now gives a permanent increased base critical chance of 20% - looks like critical combo then adds %chance on top of the base critical chance
- Snow Charge's damage increased to 145%
- Overswing: Double Swing's damage increased by +15% at all levels, Triple Swing's damage increased by +15% at all levels
- High Mastery: Mastery increased by +5% at all levels (for a maximum mastery of 70%). This skill also adds minimum critical damage of +20%
K, so we'll now have a 25% chance to critical before comboing and 65% at 100 combo? Even though it isn't our original 70%, fuck yes! This will also bump our mastery back up to 90%. Stronger snow charge and overswing, too.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - IllegallySane - 2010-06-30
Not listed here, but Brawlers seem to only gain ~27 HP per level instead of ~54-56 as it is now. I don't understand why even with the +20% Hp buff that the HP gain/level is cut in half. I bet Gunslingers HP is probably higher than Brawlers if you don't accommodate the +20% HP skill.