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Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Printable Version

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Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - JoeTang - 2013-06-30

nRxUs Wrote:Why is it only beneficial to up to 4 targets? Shouldn't more targets mean more mobs being hit 25 times?

It only hits 25 times. Ever.

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - nRxUs - 2013-06-30

JoeTang Wrote:It only hits 25 times. Ever.

Well that's a huge nerf... Just when I thought about coming back to Maple for RED.

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - JoeTang - 2013-06-30

nRxUs Wrote:Well that's a huge nerf... Just when I thought about coming back to Maple for RED.

Considering that Shadowers now do more %/s for every target hit except 9 and 10 because they can't hit 9 and 10, yes, it's a huge nerf.

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - nRxUs - 2013-06-30

JoeTang Wrote:Considering that Shadowers now do more %/s for every target hit except 9 and 10 because they can't hit 9 and 10, yes, it's a huge nerf.

I meant to the skill more than overall since ME is one of my favorite Skills. I really loved using it while training and just having tons of mobs die at once.
I did see we do more %/s but whatevs. Thanks for the clarification though (:

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - GeistesblitZ - 2013-07-01

yea, they definitely need to buff the damage by quite a bit atm, since by the looks of it, me is ALWAYS detrimental to dps now...

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - 777 - 2013-07-01

so from what i understand at 1v1 with 40% defense its goes like this?
DB>shadower>phantom>NL?
which is quite sad since NL used to be THE bossing job of maple T.T
and DB are stupidly OP compared to other thieves

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - GeistesblitZ - 2013-07-01

what how are you getting DB>shadower? also you should look at 0% defence and 100% or 200% bossing, if you want to look at end-game equips, since it's pretty easy to get 100% pdr and you'd have to have % bossing to be considered decent.

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - JoeTang - 2013-07-04

Found a rather large bug where Boomerang Step's attack speed was set to 690ms instead of 900ms, which has been persistent for all iterations. Not sure how it happened but it's fixed for the OP, and whenever I feel like updating GMS version it'll be fixed there too.


Some more information after playing:
Each hit of Meso Explosion counts as an attack, and raises Critical Growing/Prima Critical's count by one. While training, I can bring my critical rate from 32% to 100% with two Meso Explosions.
There appears to be either a cap on how much this can occur on a single target, or there is a hidden cap on the actual damage done by Meso Explosion. It also very often lands on 100%. It only reliably passes it and resets if I'm already in the 90s. The most I've ever seen from a single target is about +30%, which is coincidentally 15 hits. There may be a 15 hit cap on Meso Explosion on a single target in this case, I'll need to either find something with extremely high HP and see if I can get the expected damage, or find something with Weapon Cancel and see if there's only a cap on critical gain. It may also be a product of lag though.

An interesting and unrelated aspect of Critical Growing/Prima Critical is if you're at 100% critical rate you miss any hits, it won't reset. This includes when attacking more than one monster, so if you're training at a high level area, you can use Meso Explosion to raise your crit rate to 100%, and then spam Savage Blow/Muspelheim at 100% critical rate. If you hit 8 monsters with Savage Blow, and even one line misses, you keep your 100% Critical Rate.

I'm going to attempt to work an algorithm and see if it's possible to use Meso Explosion purely for keeping your critical rate high, since it's obviously detrimental if it's used at high critical rates compared to Boomerang Step, Sudden Raid, Assassinate (if it can critical yet), or even Edge Carnival. i.e. if you use Meso Explosion at 100% critical, the first hit (or maybe the first few hits?) will be 100%, but the rest will be reset to whatever your base is, and gain from there, whereas if you are at 100% with Boomerang Step, both hits of Boomerang Step's massive 742% will be criticals.

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - ChronosXIII - 2013-07-04

I was just about to ask if there was a specific way to utilize Prima Critical, since it seems like the majority of the time would have been spent building up Critical Rate to ~90% and then using Boomerang Step for multiple targets or Assassinate for single target.

But wow, seeing Meso Explosion increase it so fast puts any of those worries aside.

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - JoeTang - 2013-07-15

I've had this done for a while, but I've fixed it up in the OP now.

Shadower has had its Assassinate and Meso Explosion corrected. Meso Explosion now adds 1 KP for each hit, and adds one Prima Critical stack for each hit. Meso Explosion is only used on Single Targets now. It might be beneficial on 2 targets, but it appears to be marginal if that. It still uses the method of waiting until the coins are about to expire, and then, if Assassinate is used, it does Assassinate -> Meso Explosion, otherwise, it uses Boomerang Step -> Meso Explosion.
Assassinate + ME table uses Assassinate, and uses Meso Explosion to generate 5 KP if there enough coins for max hits lying around, i.e. 25 (30 if you have Hyper).

There is a separate table now for Savage Blow. It's much better with Assassinate because it's faster than Muspelheim, allowing more KP buildup, I think. It's marginally better without Assassinate because it's almost the same %/s as Muspelheim, but since it's faster, you get to do more Boomerang Steps.

I also discovered an error for Veil of Shadow, where it was always active for Hyper tables. This is fixed now.

Phantom has been updated to RED. They use Cross Over Chains for 3rd job, assuming full HP the whole time. 4th job uses either Arrow Platter or Void Elemental. Arrow Platter is the primary attack for 1~4 targets. The turret is always used. 5~6 uses Ultimate Drive and Tempest of Cards, higher uses Twilight instead of Ultimate Drive. Void Elemental's 1~6 targets is otherwise Ultimate Drive, and 7+ is Twilight + Phantom Charge. Tempest of Card conflicts with Arrow Platter spam too much to be used together. Arrow Platter's primary attack activates Noir Carte, but its turret cannot.

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Arrol - 2013-07-15

Question: Is Rapid Fire still be of any use for Phantom?

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - JoeTang - 2013-07-15

Arrol Wrote:Question: Is Rapid Fire still be of any use for Phantom?

If the monster you're attacking isn't resistant to physical and Arrow Platter can't hit it, I would imagine Rapid Fire would be better than Void Elemental + Ultimate Drive. I'll look into this.

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - TagerBustah - 2013-07-16

JoeTang Wrote:If the monster you're attacking isn't resistant to physical and Arrow Platter can't hit it, I would imagine Rapid Fire would be better than Void Elemental + Ultimate Drive. I'll look into this.

Are you sure that for a phantom elemental void removes resistances for all skills and not only just for stolen elemental charges?

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Grey - 2013-07-16

 Without Void Elemental
 With Void Elemental

Damage doesn't double (going from 50% damage because Physical Resist to 100% damage from ignoring Physical Resist, yeah?), so I don't think it affects skills other than the charges + blast.

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - TagerBustah - 2013-07-16

iAmFear Wrote:
 Without Void Elemental
 With Void Elemental

Damage doesn't double (going from 50% damage because Physical Resist to 100% damage from ignoring Physical Resist, yeah?), so I don't think it affects skills other than the charges + blast.

Thats exactly what i thought, thanks for the confirmation!

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Bribery - 2013-07-16

Wouldn't Final Cut be a better choice than Void Elemental for Phantoms?

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - JoeTang - 2013-07-16

Bribery Wrote:Wouldn't Final Cut be a better choice than Void Elemental for Phantoms?

I had this coded before I went to bed but didn't update the OP until now. I've removed Void Elemental now.

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Takebacker - 2013-07-16

Wouldn't final cut only be better than void if you had it up 100%?

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Grey - 2013-07-16

Takebacker Wrote:Wouldn't final cut only be better than void if you had it up 100%?

I would think that'd depend on how much total and boss damage you had, since Final Cut is multiplicative. Cross Over Chain and Priere D'Aria are already 120% together, so another 30% on top of that would just be like, 13.6% more damage. Final Cut averages out to like 1.4x damage, I believe.

Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - JoeTang - 2013-07-16

Takebacker Wrote:Wouldn't final cut only be better than void if you had it up 100%?

I had the table up earlier with Void Elemental, it was around 7700%/s normal, and 9500%/s for Hypers if I recall correctly.

I think if Final Cut had 100% uptime, it would be around 14000%/s Hypers.