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+--- Thread: [1.2.381] The Wind (/showthread.php?tid=42033)
[1.2.381] The Wind - TamilTiger1 - 2011-05-20
People don't complain about the summons lagging the boss battles, they complain about it blocking their characters. From my experience people only complained about mage summons which appear where the characters stand and block very large portion of the screens. Archer summons never had this problem, they always flew over all the characters and took very little space. This was long time ago too, when a lot of people can die in 1hit from zak body. With a big group of bossers and mage summons out, it was hard to see where your character was. Thats the only complains I've had from the summons. Never had anyone complain about this after big bang or self HB came out.
These are some awesome changes for the archers. It would have been better if they didn't increase BMs single target even futher only to give a slight boost in mobbing. I would rather have single target DPS stand where it is now and have a big boost in mobbing with a more efficient 4th job skill. I really wanted them to close the gap between our mobbing skill and 1vs1 skill like with mechanics. I guess it'll be okay as long as they don't release any of the current LHC equilant mobs. IIRC they no longer have the 10mil hp mobs after JUMP.
Anyone know about the % evation? Is it the crappy version we have now that just adds to our current avoid in the stat window or is it like shadow shifter? The version we have now is almost useless, that kind of skill would work better for thiefs who have naturally high avoid. If it is like shadow shifter that would be weird too. Increasing their defence is fine since they are closer to warriors than other classes but 35% avoid skill is a bit weird. Does the accuracy formula change in anyway after JUMP? the 10% accuracy increase would be useless unless they plan on changing accuracy formula again.
Atleast until the thief/pirate changes we won't need to be SE mules, we'll have haste mules instead
Edit:
Illusion Step looks like its the crappy version avoid we have now. In the level 175BM video, he casts the skill at about 1:36 and at level 10 it increased his avoid by 15% (~180 extra avoid). Should have expected this when the skill was an active skill.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Baklava - 2011-05-20
I still don't understand why Archers get the taunt/aggro skill.
Paladins should have that...I'd sacrifice HP recovery for that...we're like selfish HP sinks right now.
Random rant/10.
;~;
And guys, I think you should have known since the Warrior update that they would be updating all the classes. The Physical Training skill that adds base stats and has been added to all classes so far was obvious to me.
Thieves will probably get a +40 luck skill and Pirates will probably get Physical Training.
[1.2.381] The Wind - HighOnMushrooms - 2011-05-20
Baklava Wrote:I still don't understand why Archers get the taunt/aggro skill.
Are you talking about Puppet? Because we've always had that, they just made it better..
[1.2.381] The Wind - Baklava - 2011-05-20
HighOnMushrooms Wrote:Are you talking about Puppet? Because we've always had that, they just made it better..I mean Elite Puppet and it's auto aggro drawing effect. Puppet was fine the way it was, but I'm confused that they gave Elite Puppet the aggro. WRYYYYY
[1.2.381] The Wind - Worthyness - 2011-05-20
yeesh i've been away from the mass bossing scene for a long time o_O Frickin windows 7 glitch stopped me from zakking for a LONG time. I just remember back in the day people would yell at me for using summons cause it would "make them lag".
The aggro factor really isn't that significant. From that marksman video, he just used elite puppet as he would use a normal puppet. Plus it probably wouldn't take attention away from the party so it wouldn't be necessarily useful at a boss run either. And if you wanted aggro onto yourself, might as well have just attacked all the monsters yourself o_O
[1.2.381] The Wind - RedRaven16 - 2011-05-20
Baklava Wrote:I mean Elite Puppet and it's auto aggro drawing effect. Puppet was fine the way it was, but I'm confused that they gave Elite Puppet the aggro. WRYYYYY
Because its stupid to use puppet EVERY time you want to keep mobs at a spot
[1.2.381] The Wind - MetaSeraphim - 2011-05-20
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:Almost positive they don't upgrade the mount because it's too expensive/time consuming for the casual gamer.
No. They don't upgrade it because 150 > 170 is hardly anything at all.
Anyway, they should throw the speed cap out the window for all classes not just some classes.
Fiel Wrote:@Worthyness - Try telling a bowman that he can't have a 40% HP boost during a boss run. I'd love to see you try.
With every job and their mother having some type of self HB nowadays we should see HB changed into a non-disspellable skill and make it double, no triple HP and MP.
[1.2.381] The Wind - octopusprime - 2011-05-20
Baklava Wrote:I mean Elite Puppet and it's auto aggro drawing effect. Puppet was fine the way it was, but I'm confused that they gave Elite Puppet the aggro. WRYYYYY
Bosses hit the whole screen, it's still pointless.
[1.2.381] The Wind - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-05-20
MetaSeraphim Wrote:No. They don't upgrade it because 150 > 170 is hardly anything at all.
Anyway, they should throw the speed cap out the window for all classes not just some classes.
Not sure if the difference is that small or noticable. Many of my warrior friends get the second mount because of the speed difference in it affecting their training efficiency. This was pre-BigBang when they'd scale the maps at Skeles jumping on and off of their mounts at a time. I even specifically remembering a DrK friend going out of his way for a half week to get the mount upgrade.
[1.2.381] The Wind - White - 2011-05-20
MetaSeraphim Wrote:No. They don't upgrade it because 150 > 170 is hardly anything at all.
No, it's because of the money.
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Anyway, they should throw the speed cap out the window for all classes not just some classes.
Why? Welfare state?
MetaSeraphim Wrote:With every job and their mother having some type of self HB nowadays we should see HB changed into a non-disspellable skill and make it double, no triple HP and MP.
I think you're being sarcastic here. However, for reference, self-hb (the one you could bind to a hot-key) isn't dispellable except on arans.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Alloy - 2011-05-20
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:Not sure if the difference is that small or noticable. Many of my warrior friends get the second mount because of the speed difference in it affecting their training efficiency. This was pre-BigBang when they'd scale the maps at Skeles jumping on and off of their mounts at a time. I even specifically remembering a DrK friend going out of his way for a half week to get the mount upgrade.
I've known those cases too. I even remember some bowmen actually doing that too. The irony :p
[1.2.381] The Wind - ShinkuDragon - 2011-05-20
White Wrote:I think you're being sarcastic here. However, for reference, self-hb (the one you could bind to a hot-key) isn't dispellable except on arans.
pretty sure he isn't, as a DrK too i see where he comes from, get a czak, a rex earring, and decent HB, and you just got the effects of HB, but in non-dispellable form, HB is barely useful, and does more harm than good at bosses that can dispel (especially Von Leon, since even if you rebuff HB, the HP won't replenish itself. i take a 10k hit everytime he dispels my HB)
[1.2.381] The Wind - MetaSeraphim - 2011-05-20
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:Not sure if the difference is that small or noticable.
Coming from a warrior, it is small.
White Wrote:No, it's because of the money.
No, it is because there isn't really a difference. And maybe mesos.
White Wrote:Why? Welfare state?
What does welfare have to do with maple? It is stupid to allow one class to go above the speed cap and not others. It would be like letting some classes go above the damage cap but not others.
White Wrote:I think you're being sarcastic here.
I wasn't.
[1.2.381] The Wind - White - 2011-05-20
ShinkuDragon Wrote:pretty sure he isn't, as a DrK too i see where he comes from, get a czak, a rex earring, and decent HB, and you just got the effects of HB, but in non-dispellable form, HB is barely useful, and does more harm than good at bosses that can dispel (especially Von Leon, since even if you rebuff HB, the HP won't replenish itself. i take a 10k hit everytime he dispels my HB)
Don't forget a chtp. I still get more from reg hb but atm I do prefer my own self hb when at higher end bosses for exactly that reason. Not sure what the problem is though.
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Coming from a warrior, it is small.
Fair enough. Coming from a BM w/ 140% spd without haste, the difference is pretty big to me. Guess it depends on who you talk to and how much speed matters to them.
MetaSeraphim Wrote:No, it is because there isn't really a difference. And maybe mesos.
To each their own.
MetaSeraphim Wrote:What does welfare have to do with maple? It is stupid to allow one class to go above the speed cap and not others. It would be like letting some classes go above the damage cap but not others.
That's a completely different thing. Speed can indirectly boost training speed. Breaking the damage cap, if capable, dramatically and directly boosts training speed.
As for my mention of a welfare state, I was loosely saying that it seems you don't feel one class should have an advantage over another. If that's the case, feel free to play a game that doesn't have different classes. The whole point of having different classes is to allow players to choose between the pros and cons of each class.
Honestly, I don't see why this issue of speed is such a big deal. You yourself said that the 20 speed difference of a mount "isn't really a difference". So why do you care if archers can, with assistance from haste 99% of the time only, get that 20 speed difference?
[1.2.381] The Wind - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-05-20
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Coming from a warrior, it is small.
I just ran a time keep on my Thief at 140% speed and my WH at 170% speed (brought down). At Free Market 18, walking from one end to the other (no FJ), the thief at 140% speed takes 12 seconds to reach the other end. The WH takes a little bit less than 8 seconds. That's a pretty big difference considering only 30% apart. I'm willing to believe 20% will save a decent amount of time to improve training efficiency to warrant the mount upgrade for speed reasons.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Dusk - 2011-05-20
MetaSeraphim Wrote:What does welfare have to do with maple? It is stupid to allow one class to go above the speed cap and not others. It would be like letting some classes go above the damage cap but not others.
wat
Different classes already have different movement capabilities in the form of movement skills. A 20% difference in speed is massive, in any game.
The whole idea of a damage cap is stupid and entirely irrelevant.
[1.2.381] The Wind - MetaSeraphim - 2011-05-20
White Wrote:As for my mention of a welfare state, I was loosely saying that it seems you don't feel one class should have an advantage over another. If that's the case, feel free to play a game that doesn't have different classes. The whole point of having different classes is to allow players to choose between the pros and cons of each class.
Speed cap has nothing to do with classes having advantages over each other and being different.
[1.2.381] The Wind - Alloy - 2011-05-20
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Coming from a warrior, it is small.
You have rush though. When your main movement skill while training is something not dependant on speed, of course you don't see the difference.
[1.2.381] The Wind - MetaSeraphim - 2011-05-20
Alloy Wrote:You have rush though. When your main movement skill while training is something not dependant on speed, of course you don't see the difference.
You however don't seem to realize where I am coming from. For 8 years classes have had their speed cap be 140 with nothing to go above it but mounts, now that suddenly a class can go above that cap without a mount I don't think it is going to be a big huge difference. When it came to WH's it was big because they could run and gun, regular archers still can't run and gun on that level. If you happen to kill all the spawn in your area you'll be able to get to the next monster somewhat faster, but beyond that this isn't a game changing thing.
It's not going to make Archers OMGWTFSUPERDUPERPOWERFUL.
[1.2.381] The Wind - White - 2011-05-20
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Speed cap has nothing to do with classes having advantages over each other and being different.
It's about to.
And earlier on in the game before having 130%+ speed as a normality without haste it mattered as well but as the game stands now, speed is much less of an issue. And I think it will continue to be. With all classes having access to mounts or teleportation or whatever as necessary, and those going above the 140% cap, I don't see how raising the cap for archers makes any significant impact at all. In fact, in a way, it helps other classes as it's inevitable that the speed cap will be raised for other characters in the future and ultimately I would be shocked if it wasn't raised for everyone.