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+--- Thread: [1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing (/showthread.php?tid=27205)
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Dusk - 2010-07-04
They'll buff Crusher.
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Random_Overlord - 2010-07-04
Shidoshi Wrote:That's what he hopes, according to iAmFear the DoT interrupts after each cast and since it takes 1s before DoT starts doing damage it's effectively cancelling the DoT effect if you spam the skill.
*Cough* I just did more testing currently in GMS with inferno's DoT.
Apparently DoT DOES get interupted, but the time frame between DoT damage hits is about 1 second at most. I found at times DoT had been inflicted between attacks with inferno, but not as often as when I left the mob alone with the status effect.
So yeah, you gotta wait like 1 second between skill spam in order to get the DoT damage.
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - GodCanJudge - 2010-07-04
does the BM DOT work the same as the f/p now? i think f/p's wouldnt be very happy bout that considering bm's ussually have a higher dmg range (i think), also NL's are ccomplete beasts nor, a lvl 151 can hit 115k with avenger + sp
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Xakris - 2010-07-04
I have question is other UI that wasn't changed yet, are changed now? Especially quest, party windows. SS would be great
)
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Cheesecake - 2010-07-04
![[Image: 1253617007521.jpg]](http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5522/1253617007521.jpg)
Shidoshi Wrote:Will be fun seeing F/Ps doing:
Paralyze -> Fire Demon -> Poison Brace -> Poison Mist -> Meteor
at bosses to give maximum DPS
My complaint, though, was about repeatedly using paralyze (for example) and that cancelling its own DoT
Don't forget about composition
Dear god please let them stack.
Please.Please.Please.Please.Please.....
Edit* ohgawd all our DoT's have insanely short durations which leads me to believe that they do stack and F/P will pretty much go around bosses maintaining their DoT while releasing the ocassional BigBang to stack some damage.
BRACING FOR EPIC CONFIRMATION
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Veneni - 2010-07-04
omg if ice demon becomes a usefull attack, mages won't have any useless attacks anymore xD I might even come back to mine if this is all true
awesome!!!
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Secun - 2010-07-04
Cheesecake Wrote:Edit* ohgawd all our DoT's have insanely short durations which leads me to believe that they do stack and F/P will pretty much go around bosses maintaining their DoT while releasing the ocassional BigBang to stack some damage.
BRACING FOR EPIC CONFIRMATION
Excuse me if I'm being ignorant, but doesn't this basically mean you F/P mages have been bawwing when you haven't even bothered testing alternate damage output..?
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Alilatias - 2010-07-04
Secun Wrote:Excuse me if I'm being ignorant, but doesn't this basically mean you F/P mages have been bawwing when you haven't even bothered testing alternate damage output..?I just realized that just about everyone has been bawwing about something at some point in this process.
I don't think anyone still freaking knows whether or not Archers' FA works with 3rd and/or 4th job skills, and exactly (read: not in theory) how Vengeance works. If they work the way I think they work, then BMs probably don't need to be buffed any further in the 1 VS 1 DPS department.
(I wonder if it would be beneficial to stop Hurricane spam to toss an Inferno at the boss once in a while..?)
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Secun - 2010-07-04
Alilatias Wrote:(I wonder if it would be beneficial to stop Hurricane spam to toss an Inferno at the boss once in a while..?)
That's if Inferno(Or any dot skill for that matter) will activate on a non-area boss.
I may be wrong, but weren't area bosses generally more prone to skill debuffs and etc than regular bosses?
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Meeru - 2010-07-04
Secun Wrote:Excuse me if I'm being ignorant, but doesn't this basically mean you F/P mages have been bawwing when you haven't even bothered testing alternate damage output..?
You have to understand, that testing requires access to KMST and only the select few has that privilege. If anyone had the chance to test it first hand, it probably would have defeated the purpose of discussing them in the thread. New changes are made, we don't know how a lot of things work, and its not because no one bothered to test it, more like because given the limitations; glitches/time and so forth, we CAN'T test/make conclusions until more evidence have surfaced.
That's why, if there was any 'bawwing' at all, they have a right to express their opinion and spark discussion. Although some posts do fit your description but to criticise them 'F/P mages' like that is baseless and misguided.
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Shidoshi - 2010-07-04
Secun Wrote:That's if Inferno(Or any dot skill for that matter) will activate on a non-area boss.
I may be wrong, but weren't area bosses generally more prone to skill debuffs and etc than regular bosses?
Area bosses have a boss flag just like any other boss.
The only thing left to know is if this was done intentionally or not.
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Alloy - 2010-07-04
Shidoshi Wrote:Area bosses have a boss flag just like any other boss.
The only thing left to know is if this was done intentionally or not.
Taking damage based on total hp makes me think that poison is going to be helpful at bosses, and that F/P will have a different game style. I'd like to know if Venom from the thief branch stacks too
Making poison immune bosses (or fire, for inferno, and the likes) is now the important part though D:
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Shidoshi - 2010-07-04
Alloy Wrote:Taking damage based on total hp
DoT is now based on your damage range, not on the mob's HP.
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Abysseon - 2010-07-04
Shidoshi Wrote:That's what he hopes, according to iAmFear the DoT interrupts after each cast and since it takes 1s before DoT starts doing damage it's effectively cancelling the DoT effect if you spam the skill.
I/l archmages can use ice demon for DoT and then spam chain lightning for 15 seconds
between each cast. Ice demon must also cause enough damage during those
15 seconds to make up for not using a chain lightning instead.
F/P archmages however cannot spam paralyze for DoT so they would have to use
alternative skills during bossing. Each skill would have to stack and even then I'm not
sure on how that surpasses the damage from spamming paralyze.
So nexon needs to change how DoT skills work to dusk's suggestion for f/p ams:
Quote:If you continue to spam Paralyze, you will refresh the timer, and the monster will continue
to take DoT damage until that timer runs out.
I think that's the best possible system.
Not to mention that this discussing relies on nexon making the major bosses (zakum, ht, ect.)
acceptable to DoT skills. =/
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Alloy - 2010-07-04
Shidoshi Wrote:DoT is now based on your damage range, not on the mob's HP.
Woops, I meant NOT taking it, as it was before the change. Same point, anyways.
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - FrozNlite - 2010-07-04
The concern I have with what Dusk proposed for DoT effects on bosses is the fact that DoT only deals damage as the timer DECREASES. As Paralyze casts faster than a second (80 casts a minute, currently), "resetting the timer" would keep the timer from ever counting down 1 second, and thus dealing DoT damage. I know that's how it works now, but my point is to help explain WHY that occurs. Think about it this way: the timer has to start counting down in order for damage to be dealt, because DoT will only kick in when the game recognizes that time on the timer has passed. If you keep refreshing the same timer, it will never actually make it to 1 second, and therefore will never actually do DoT damage.
So then what's a way to keep spamming Paralyze without interrupting the DoT timer? I think if the system worked similarly to how poisoning works with Poison Mist, it would work. In that system, the mob becomes poisoned by moving into the cloud and staying there long enough to gain the status ailment. This way, the poisoning occurs indirectly of the skill, as it's not the active cast of the skill that poisons the mob. Similarly, poisoning/burning/frostbite, whatever, could work in that the DoT damage occurs COMPLETELY indirectly of the skill used, operating on its own timer and "refreshing" only when the skill that induced the effect in the first place is used again, AFTER the timer has run out. In other words, spamming Paralyze or the Demons wouldn't "refresh" the timer, but would rather induce the effect solely if the effect wasn't already in place. In all other instances the active skill would be viewed by the game as a simple damage dealer.
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Abysseon - 2010-07-04
FrozNlite Wrote:I think if the system worked similarly to how poisoning works with Poison Mist, it would work. In that system, the mob becomes poisoned by moving into the cloud and staying there long enough to gain the status ailment. This way, the poisoning occurs indirectly of the skill, as it's not the active cast of the skill that poisons the mob. Similarly, poisoning/burning/frostbite, whatever, could work in that the DoT damage occurs COMPLETELY indirectly of the skill used, operating on its own timer and "refreshing" only when the skill that induced the effect in the first place is used again, AFTER the timer has run out. In other words, spamming Paralyze or the Demons wouldn't "refresh" the timer, but would rather induce the effect solely if the effect wasn't already in place. In all other instances the active skill would be viewed by the game as a simple damage dealer.
So this will happen from your description of poison mist?
Quote:1. A player casts paralyze.
2. DoT starts. *the player is still able to use paralyze without stopping the DoT*
3. After 5 seconds DoT ends.
4. Repeat from step 1.
Also, now that DoT no longer relies on hp, can a monster be affected by the
same DoT skill from different players?
Ex. A monster being affected by three poison mists from three different f/p mages.
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - FrozNlite - 2010-07-04
Abysseon Wrote:So this will happen from your description of poison mist?
Also, now that DoT no longer relies on hp, can a monster be affected by the
same DoT skill from different players?
Ex. A monster being affected by three poison mists from three different f/p mages.
That is exactly what I'm saying. The example I can provide for this is how if an F/P in GMS with, say, Lv. 15 Mist (so it doensn't fully reduce a mob HP to 1) lays an infinite number of mist clouds down around a poisonable mob, that mob will continously become poisoned so long as they're within the clouds, but will only take poison damage as a status effect one "poison event" at a time. Once one ends, the next begins very shortly afterwards as the clouds are still there. Rinse, and repeat.
Also, that's an excellent question about mutli-status effects. I think if the game was able to ID whose effects were whose it could differentiate and allow multiple DoTs. Whatever the method, so long as multiple DoTs are allowed things will be fine.
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Dusk - 2010-07-04
FrozNlite Wrote:The concern I have with what Dusk proposed for DoT effects on bosses is the fact that DoT only deals damage as the timer DECREASES.
No, you misunderstood my post. The boss would take damage per second as long as there's an active timer on it (server checks for DoT once per second). Spamming the same skill would just refresh the timer. Using a skill with a higher DoT would start a new timer. So yes, the DoT effect would operate on its own.
@ the idea of stacking DoTs on bosses, even if that works, it won't do pomegranate. The combined DoT effect from all of your other skills doesn't beat spamming Paralyze.
Likewise for throwing Inferno/Flamethrower in at bosses: Inferno has a 50% DoT. You lose a good 6 Hurricane arrows by taking the time to use it. Flamethrower has a respectable 110% DoT but still barely matches Cannon for damage over the 8 second burn duration.
[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing - Abysseon - 2010-07-04
FrozNlite Wrote:That is exactly what I'm saying. The example I can provide for this is how if an F/P in GMS with, say, Lv. 15 Mist (so it doensn't fully reduce a mob HP to 1) lays an infinite number of mist clouds down around a poisonable mob, that mob will continously become poisoned so long as they're within the clouds, but will only take poison damage as a status effect one "poison event" at a time. Once one ends, the next begins very shortly afterwards as the clouds are still there. Rinse, and repeat.
I really hope that archmages can cast meteo/blizz, fd/id, and spam cl/paralyze during bossing
and all of the DoT would stack. Not to mention the added damage from summons.
Quote:Also, that's an excellent question about mutli-status effects. I think if the game was able to ID whose effects were whose it could differentiate and allow multiple DoTs. Whatever the method, so long as multiple DoTs are allowed things will be fine.
Hopefully this would occur to allow multiple classes in a run and not loose
out on the DoT from the same skill.
Quote:@ the idea of stacking DoTs on bosses, even if that works, it won't do pomegranate. The combined DoT effect from all of your other skills doesn't beat spamming Paralyze.
That's what I want to figure out as well.
Ex. An archmage ultimate takes 3 seconds to cast?
So the DoT in the next 10 seconds would need to outdamage the
missed paralyzes used to cast meteo. Difficult to see that
happening but it could occur.
*still no archmage vids... >=/*