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+--- Thread: [1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing (/showthread.php?tid=27124)
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Alilatias - 2010-06-30
FluffyFoxxie Wrote:That never stopped hunters from way outnumbering xbows. I've been playing since beta and from then till now, xbows have ALWAYS been less populous than hunters. If xbows were ALWAYS so much superior to bows, how come bows always remained so much more popular? I remember way back when, I used to actually get picked on by hunters, saying xbows sucked in comparison, and I believed them cuz I didn't know any better.What does class popularity have to do with anything? As far as I’m aware, Corsairs are currently considered top-tier DPS, yet there are about twice as many Buccaneers. Besides, Nexon Korea would have to be utterly stupid to let class population play any role in this balancing process.
That being said, ultistrafe+snipe really is overkill. I wish that they would make snipe a % based skill already, I'm not fond of the static damage it deals.
To be honest, I would be fine with BMs staying put with Hurricane and such, as long as they alter the way a few other skills work. I’ll elaborate exactly how later (I’ll just say that it has to do with Focus, Final Attack, Power KB/Dragon Pulse, Hamstring/Blind and all of the 3rd job mobbing skills), as I’m currently in a writing lab at college.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Cavalier - 2010-06-30
byakugan Wrote:I read up to this part and flipped out at the once again used argument of why are there more bowmasters than marksmen. As for the excuse, i was not talking just about you, but about many marksmen that have kept using that argument ever since the first round of skill changes. It was acceptable before, but not now that all these changes are so huge.
In my opinion, the argument is as valid as it was before, regardless of how big the changes are. If it was valid with a small advantage, it should hold with a large advantage, albeit perhaps to a smaller extent. If it wasn't, it isn't.
I'm not saying I agree (or disagree), though.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - 0^2 - 2010-06-30
Does the new White Knight skill have a cooldown? If not then its one of the best
Party skills ever. Threaten reducing mobs stats by 30% isnt bad either. But why the nerf on
Charge Blow?
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Abysseon - 2010-06-30
Shidoshi Wrote:I hate this role reversal on F/P - I/L
I really want to know how these DoT skills will work. Even then, unless they work on bosses, it's kinda strange that before F/Ps were the more 1v1 oriented mage and I/L the more mob oriented mage...
Now CL is both stronger and faster than paralyze on single targets. They even get innate critical on it.
Yeah, the crit addition to chain lightning does seem random at this point.
The 3 hit-mob ratio matches with elquines but the only thing that puzzles me is
why previous lightning skills were changed to hit a target multiple times yet they
still continue to keep chain lightning the same...
DoT may prove to be useful. We'll just have to wait and see.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Kabanaw - 2010-06-30
Since DoT is no longer based on a mob's HP, they very well may change it so DoT works on bosses.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - blade686 - 2010-06-30
These changes really start to get on my nerves...
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Cyanne - 2010-06-30
Takebacker Wrote:Don't think it would matter since chaos HTP > everything anyway.
Nah. It's less than what we had before.
Assuming everyone has max mesos to toss around.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Bribery - 2010-06-30
Ouch @ Evan nerfs. With Blaze at only 780%, CL will definitely outdamage it now due to the speed difference.
Oh well, at least the Corsair boosts are nice.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - shagreen heart - 2010-06-30
what about a 2% chance to insta-kill paralyzed/stoned monsters? is that sparta, or what? or getting a damage cap when using it on bosses? i'm readin a lot of mages complaints, and i think that DoT needs to somehow be applied to bosses. maybe give the chance to burn bosses with 5% chance, etc.? i mean i hear a lot of complaining but no suggestions or solutions.
edit to add~ i mean this whole revamp is due to player demand. suggestions won't hurt anything, and anyone could come up with a good solution.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - ChaosCorpse - 2010-06-30
Throwing my 2 cents out there regarding the MM changes.
I agree that combined snipe and ultimate strafe are a bit much on the 1 v 1 dmg for us given that we have pierce. Though, my take on it is a little different. I want to keep snipe as it is; it's a unique skill in the game that there are no others to compare it to (yeah there are others, but they don't kill). I don't want it to become just like any other skill and fall into the dps, dot, and mob categories. If what I've understood from what's been said is true, ultimate strafe is not only stronger, but faster. First off, I'd like to know if it is fast enough for consistent knockback. If so, I'd take it back down to 4 arrows, but keep the improved speed and perhaps adjust the dmg accordingly.
Earnestly, I'd like to see a fair dmg output between the bowman classes without taking away the unique traits. But the one thing I've looked for as far as an improvement in strafe is not the power, but the ability to KB monsters safely as other classes have been able to do (note: solo and not with SI). Truth be told, I haven't bothered much with bossing up to this point, so I'll admit I have yet to see this problem critically myself, but I'm made aware of it regularly by some of the higher leveled community.
One more thing, while I agree that 3rd job xbows beat bows due to freezing, I don't understand this assumption of 2nd job doing the same.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Solarboy - 2010-06-30
Kabanaw Wrote:Since DoT is no longer based on a mob's HP, they very well may change it so DoT works on bosses.
That would be really suefull.
They could make all Mages do DoT and make them like some kind of support damage dealers.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Bountyan - 2010-06-30
Liking the Aran updates. Their mastery is 90% now with 70% High Mastery plus 20% base polearm mastery, right? And it adds critical damage now? o.o Snow Charge upgrade is pretty neat, and it looks like they're trying to make Double Swing damage closer to Triple Swing or something.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - byakugan - 2010-06-30
Cavalier Wrote:In my opinion, the argument is as valid as it was before, regardless of how big the changes are. If it was valid with a small advantage, it should hold with a large advantage, albeit perhaps to a smaller extent. If it wasn't, it isn't.
I'm not saying I agree (or disagree), though.
Before = they were decreassing the cooldown time on snipe from 6 to 4 seconds, they were reducing the charging time of piercing to 1.5 seconds (or just 1), they increased the damage cap from 100k to 200k so snipe could hit twice its dmg, They increased strafe's and blizzard's dmg a little and even earlier skills like Iron Arrow.
Now = they are giving them a new skill that rivals or surpasses hurricane while at the same time they double the damage of pierce, they are making Snipe hit 5 times harder than before and i forgot what other changes.
By acceptable I didn't mean the argument was right, just tolerable. But now they are making marksmen strong enough to kick bowmen out of maple. So saying Bowmaster deserve it just because marksmen were always the underdog is just ridiculous.
Bribery Wrote:Ouch @ Evan nerfs. With Blaze at only 780%, CL will definitely outdamage it now due to the speed difference.
Oh well, at least the Corsair boosts are nice.
It's not like Evans would use Blaze for bossing anymore. isn't Illusion their primal 1v1 skill now that it hits 400% x 4?
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Shidoshi - 2010-06-30
solarboy Wrote:That would be really suefull.
They could make all Mages do DoT and make them like some kind of support damage dealers.
Stop spreading out the unique traits. I'll be a happy mage if F/Ps are the masters of DoT and it's useful.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Hazzy - 2010-06-30
DoT skills are a great way for a support class, like a cleric, to contribute damage at bosses. It lets them focus on the party, but still be welcomed for additional damage. The stun on their skills can play similar a role. Instead of spamming Heal, Heal for 4 seconds, cast SR(?), then heal again. Of course, that falls apart if Stun goes away when another user hits the mob, but that'd be a really stupid thing to implement. They wouldn't... would they?
Shidoshi Wrote:I hate this role reversal on F/P - I/L
I agree that it's kind of a kick in the nuts to everyone who went F/P for the 1v1 or I/L for the mobbing, but it makes sense. Directed Ice and Electric attacks would do more damage to a smaller number of monsters, where as uncontrollable fire and poison would just kill everything in a certain area.
JoeTang Wrote:New Venom is pretty bad in my opinion. Hopefully it still stacks to do 300%/s, but I don't believe it's worth the first initial point as the damage is so low in the beginning now.
I was referring to the current gMS Venom. What makes it so great, and why can't that be applied to Mage DoT skills?
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Solarboy - 2010-06-30
Shidoshi Wrote:Stop spreading out the unique traits. I'll be a happy mage if F/Ps are the masters of DoT and it's useful.
How about:
Only bishops get BB and it becomes Holy element.
I/L and F/P both get their demons to deal damage 2 times.
Chain lighting can hit 5 times on bosses
FP are given DoT on all their skills being meteor the strongest DoT skill with 5k per second lasting 30 secods?
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - vx-2 - 2010-06-30
Alilatias Wrote:To be honest, I would be fine with BMs staying put with Hurricane and such, as long as they alter the way a few other skills work. I’ll elaborate exactly how later (I’ll just say that it has to do with Focus, Final Attack, Power KB/Dragon Pulse, Hamstring/Blind and all of the 3rd job mobbing skills), as I’m currently in a writing lab at college.
If you're talking in terms of training/ Mobbing, there are definitely alternatives.
E.g.
1) SE + concentrate
2) Open Hawk (yea, hawk not phoenix), = 99% stun on mob. Reason for this is becuz, since u dun have minimum range anymore, DP/ PKB/ Dragon Breathe/ Blind/ Hamstring is uttertly useless, just stun them with hawk or arrow bomb, and start hitting with arrow rain, strafe, hurricane and etc.
3) Arrow Rain away: new dmg is 400% @ 10mobs, and use Arrow bomb for distance. I would avoid FA at best to have more mob control.
If you're talking in terms of bossing, there's really just concentrate + SE (like how NL would yelp out loud SE PLS@@) + hurricane/ SOA.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - FrozNlite - 2010-06-30
Hazzy Wrote:He was saying how DoT in Maplestory works horribly. If Venom is as great as I'm told, what is it doing differently?
[video=youtube;P29US7jIIes]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P29US7jIIes[/video]
Video of a friend showing his NL at Peak as everything works in GMS. You'll notice two things: (1) the vast majority of the damage he deals towards actually killing the mobs (I'll throw out 80% as an exceedingly rough visual estimate) is based around his TT damage, and (2) the Venom damage activates roughly once per mob before it dies, doing 18ks, 10ks, etc., dependent on range or whatever.
Now here's why it sucks for LOLFPs and why Paul made the distinction: Venom activates with every skill, whereas F/Ps have to use specific skills to induce DoT, most of which are useless without the DoT damage. On top of that, our current DoT doesn't come anywhere close to that of NLs because it's dependent on the mob HP, divided over the total time of the skill. For example, max Poison Mist poisons a mob for 40 seconds, dealing 1/40th of their HP each second. If you need any more help understanding why this damage is such crap in the reality of 4th Job, all I'll say to help is that 3rd Job F/Ps currently have to WAIT for 40 SECONDS before they can kill a poisoned mob.
And you wonder why we were pissed off before the age of mini-dungeons when we were told to NOT multi-channel mist?
Seanny Wrote:glad the ultimates now have DoT to compensate for the cooldowns now as well. every 30 seconds a new mob will suffer a very short life span. i am a bit concerned for my F/P counterparts now though; but on the other hand, doesn't Para's ability to hit more targets make it more capable at maintaining DPS on bosses that spam mob spawns to protect itself?
...what? That's a ridiculous comment in bold, because the main boss is comprised of ONE target that's only getting hit by Paralyze ONCE. In other words, if we're attacking the boss alone or the boss and 5 summoned mobs, we're still doing the SAME DPS to the boss mob the entire time. Yes, Paralyze will help with mobbing at bosses, but it's typically a luxury that most runners give up in place of better DPS classes when they can.
Abysseon Wrote:About the new magic formula, would a MoN be better damage wise for mages rather than Htp?
+10 M.Att/+5 Int/+5 Luk > +22 Int/+22 Luk?
Easy way to answer that (obvious, in my opinion) question: which pendants do weapon attack Adventurer classes currently use - HTPs, or MoNs?
The answer to your question is duh.
Takebacker Wrote:Don't think it would matter since chaos HTP > everything anyway.
Like Cyanne said, that's assuming you have max meso, are actually invited to a ChaosHT run (lolMages), and actually get on the drop list for a run if it's even KILLED (again, lolMages).
shagreen heart Wrote:what about a 2% chance to insta-kill paralyzed/stoned monsters? is that sparta, or what? or getting a damage cap when using it on bosses? i'm readin a lot of mages complaints, and i think that DoT needs to somehow be applied to bosses. maybe give the chance to burn bosses with 5% chance, etc.? i mean i hear a lot of complaining but no suggestions or solutions.
edit to add~ i mean this whole revamp is due to player demand. suggestions won't hurt anything, and anyone could come up with a good solution.
The thing is ArchMages have suggested various solutions on countless occasions across the forums over the past few years, but it's not like it really matters. Discussion is good, but unless an English KMST tester fluent in Korean reads these threads and our posts, tests a LOLFP in Tespia, and provides direct feedback to Nexon Korea, we won't see anything change. Not that Korea would even bother with the suggestions if they got them in the first place.
EDIT:
solarboy Wrote:FP are given DoT on all their skills being meteor the strongest DoT skill with 5k per second lasting 30 secods?
impliedfacepalm.jpg
My 168 NL friend above is doing 18k a second with Venom as support damage to his main attack. 5k damage per second is utterly and completely useless.
Let me spell this out for people: for DoT to be effective support damage, it would have to be doing in the ~50k/second ballpark.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - FluffyFoxxie - 2010-06-30
LongShotJohn Wrote:First off, I'd like to know if it is fast enough for consistent knockback. If so, I'd take it back down to 4 arrows, but keep the improved speed and perhaps adjust the dmg accordingly.
It fires the same speed as regular strafe. What people mean by iy being "faster" is that it fires 6 arrows in the same time it takes to fire one strafe, as opposed to hurricane which fires I think slightly less arrows in that same amount of time. MM will not be able to KB bosses any more efficiently than before, aside from simply being able to deal more raw damage.
[1.2.322] Moar Skill Balancing - Will - 2010-06-30
Mechanic is still likely a resistance. Just because he isn't in the picture, doesn't mean he isn't one.
Look at Evans, they weren't in the picture with Aran, and the release of info on them is about the same as Mechanics to Hunters/Mages, and Evans still were a legend.
Too many Dragon Strike delay reductions, they should just give it no delay.
lolwave is still useless, they have to make it not rely on flat maps.
Also saddened by the lack of ATT stacking with charge + transform.
Loving the DB and Shadower buffs.
Confused and happy with MMs buffs.